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Blake Griffin best trade scenario

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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#41 » by BadMofoPimp » Fri May 18, 2018 12:45 am

buzzkilloton wrote:
Balkman32 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
I just don't think the Pistons are even thinking of moving him. It is a few fans here who think that.


It only takes one offer.

This team just isnt ready to compete with the Celtics and 76ers of the east. I might consider a full rebuild, becasue picking between 8-14 every year just aint getting it done.


I've had enough of the chasing the low seeds of the playoffs as well. We should be trying to rebuild through the draft and land a true franchise player that we can home grow. Its so obv the celtics/sixers/bucks(possibly with freak and new coach) are going to control the east for the next 5 seasons.


This is why we have "Fans Opinions" on over 20 boards on why 20 teams should go full on tank instead of the 10 teams that do full on tank for those top 3 picks. unfortuntely, only 4-5 teams have a shot at those 3 picks. It seems harder to tank for those 3 picks than make the playoffs! So, people should forget about tanking cuz not gonna get a top 3 pick.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#42 » by BadMofoPimp » Fri May 18, 2018 12:51 am

Crymson wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:I just don't think the Pistons are even thinking of moving him.


The fool owner who motivated the incomprehensibly foolish trade that brought Griffin to Detroit is the same fool owner we've got now, so chances are that you're correct. Moving him would be wisest for the team's future, but Tom Gores has spent the seven unpleasant years of his tenure demonstrating that he does not understand the NBA.


You should join the other 20-25 boards on RealGm whose fans don't think their teams owners know nothing cuz their team ain't tanking or tanking right. We should just give up and just have an 8 top team season next year cuz fans think the rest of the league should gift their teams a top 3 pick. Why even play basketball anymore unless you have a superstar on your team. Why play TEAM basketball where TEAMS are developed?
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#43 » by BadMofoPimp » Fri May 18, 2018 12:55 am

Crymson wrote:
hoophabit wrote:I've been thinking this makes a lot of sense. A DBB piece that does a lot of research (I'm too lazy): https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2018/5/17/17353542/2017-18-pistons-review-blake-griffin-and-how-to-kill-a-vampire
(Yes, it's an opinion piece like many others.)


DBB was once a source of reliable, cerebral analysis. It is now, in the main, a source for "EVERYTHING IS FINE! NOTHING IS WRONG!" agenda-based writing on the Pistons. Were a casual fan to read through and believe the material of the last month, he or she would emerge with the impression that the organization is in great shape headed into next season. It's really a big shame what's happened over there, as a once-reputable blog is no longer so reputable.

The community is also absolutely toxic, largely in the form of a roving bunch of posters who see it as their duty to police any criticism of the organization, but that's another story.

As for the piece itself, it's a joke. Nearly every facet of it is without foundation. I'll leave aside his rather odd claims about Tobias Harris and about the proper building of a good team, and focus on what he's said about Griffin. First off, he searches out an arbitrary 20/5/5 threshold and uses this as justification to plop Griffin among the league's superstars. Mmm, OK. He leaves aside the fact that all of them are better scorers, all of them are more versatile scorers, all of them aside from the notoriously inefficient Westbrook--who provides a great deal else--were hugely more efficient than he was, all of them (again, sans Westbrook) are substantially better shooters, and anybody would take any of them (assuming we're talking about pre-injury DeMarcus) over Griffin any day of the week and without any forethought necessary.

Said arbitrary threshold is, by the way, pretty hilarious. If we refine that 20 points a tinge downward, to 19.4, then Tyreke Evans joins that grouping with 19.4/5.1/5.2. Is Evans a superstar? Is he part of a select group? Is he comparable to any of the players to whom the author compared Griffin? Is he worth $32 million? $25 million? $20 million? The answer to all of those questions is NO, and with that no flies out the window any notion that Griffin's 20/5/5 puts him into any particular company whatsoever.

How about this claim?

(Griffin is a league-average three point shooter, btw)


Except that's completely false. Griffin averaged 34.5% on 5.6 three-point attempts per game last season, making him one of the least-efficient high-volume three-point shooters in the NBA. The overall NBA league average for the regular season was 36.2%. That 1.7% may not seem like a big difference, but it is assuredly a big difference.

And this?

Yes, this is a league that is obsessed with spacing, but you also have to let Blake do what he’s good at.but you also have to let Blake do what he’s good at


Except Blake is good at a lot of the things that Andre also focuses upon, notably scoring in the paint. This guy criticizes Tobias as a means by which to pump up Griffin, but the reality is that Tobias was a massively better fit next to the organization's (former) franchise player.

And this?

Huh. All those bully-ball postups that look ugly (but go in) really do wonders for a guy’s percentages around the rim.


Except he's not scoring those percentages on bully-ball post-ups. He averaged .93 PPP on post-ups last season. For reference, even the Suns, the league's least-efficient offense, averaged above 1.0 PPP in overall offense. .93 is the equivalent of 46.5% from the field, in a league that averaged an EFG% of 52.2%. Not good.

Then he references a video that he calls "TOBIAS HARRIS COULD NEVER." It features Griffin exploiting a mismatch on Harden to dish the ball to Drummond under the net, which he strangely cites as even more impressive (a single play) given that it came against the Rockets. Mmkay. That's a cherry-picked play. How about we put together a Tobias highlight reel called "BLAKE GRIFFIN COULD NEVER"? It'll be simple collection of Tobias shooting off the dribble, shooting while covered, or nailing quick-trigger threes. Efficient perimeter shooting and versatile offense off the dribble are hugely important in today's NBA. Griffin doesn't have it, and he probably never will.

He then cites clips of Jackson, Drummond, and Griffin operating against the Nets and the Lakers, two teams that finished well out of the playoff hunt, as evidence of Van Gundy's supposed vision for the three reaching fruition. Okay.

This is a pump piece. Nothing more.

Let's see what Blake can do with this group. He is a special talent, and he might be heady enough to adapt himself to the roster and play a different role? If he's more the 'anchor vet' he might stay healthier? Should determine that it can't work before tearing things down, since, like it or not, we've come this far.


He's a very good player. Not a superstar, arguably not even a star anymore, a poor fit at his own position, a bad defender, a lackluster shooter, a terrible fit on this team, injury-prone and horribly overpaid.


It would be fun to see what this team, healthy could do and add Evans or a similar player.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#44 » by buzzkilloton » Fri May 18, 2018 12:56 am

hoophabit wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Balkman32 wrote:
It only takes one offer.

This team just isnt ready to compete with the Celtics and 76ers of the east. I might consider a full rebuild, becasue picking between 8-14 every year just aint getting it done.


Ok Pistons fans, lets create a Speculation thread regarding teams we dream will make an offer for Blake Griffin. The probabilities of a trade happening just went lower exponentially. I truly think that the Pistons want to see what a healthy Reggie/Drum/Blake can do together before even thinking of considering any decisions.


I've been thinking this makes a lot of sense. A DBB piece that does a lot of research (I'm too lazy): https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2018/5/17/17353542/2017-18-pistons-review-blake-griffin-and-how-to-kill-a-vampire
(Yes, it's an opinion piece like many others.)

Let's see what Blake can do with this group. He is a special talent, and he might be heady enough to adapt himself to the roster and play a different role? If he's more the 'anchor vet' he might stay healthier? Should determine that it can't work before tearing things down, since, like it or not, we've come this far.


He opens his article using Lowe words as a quote like he was on board for the pistons trade. The writer takes the first part of the Lowe article quotes a small part of what Lowe wrote some pro pistons move for Blake words and skips over the meat of the article where Lowe writes about how it was a move for the pistons at best to go for "Super mediocrity".

"But right now, this is probably the very best deal the Clippers could have gotten for Griffin. He is in the first year of an absolutely ginormous five-year contract that will pay him about $35 million per season — and almost $39 million in 2020-21. He has a scary injury history. The Detroit Pistons could end up paying Griffin and Andre Drummond almost $70 million combined that season. Considering they have literally zero bankable long-term talent around them, and fewer avenues to find any after this trade, that scenario doesn’t seem great.

The Clippers saw their own version of that hard ceiling, and bailed out — kicking off a potential rebuild that could go in a bunch of different directions.

The Pistons got the best player in this trade. Griffin has played his entire NBA career with a Drummond-esque rim-running center, though Drummond is a way better passer (and worse defender) than DeAndre Jordan. They can fit. But Detroit risks paying a ton of money to mimic the Chris Paul-Griffin-Jordan triptych, though with Reggie Jackson in the role of Chris Paul. Gulp. There is more to this for Detroit — we’ll get there — but it is almost impossible to see any path to anything above a kind of "super-mediocrity" topping out around 50 wins.

And it’s important to remember: maybe super-mediocrity, with multiple playoff appearances in the middle of the Eastern Conference, is OK for the Pistons. They have obviously considered that endgame. They are struggling to fill a new arena, at risk of missing the playoffs for a second straight season. Being the Joe Johnson-era Hawks might be a great outcome for them."

LOL talk about a propaganda website.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#45 » by Crymson » Fri May 18, 2018 1:09 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:It would be fun to see what this team, healthy could do and add Evans or a similar player.


This team will likely be very ugly to watch. It features two overlapping, inside-focused big men who make each other less valuable, two ball-dominant players who need the ball in their hands in order to be effective and play poorly off the ball, only one good shooter in the starting lineup, a weak supporting cast, and exceedingly little of the shooting necessary to have success in the NBA.

We may well see a situation in which Griffin gets injured and the team does as well or better without him. He and Andre are a poor fit, he and Jackson are probably a poor fit, but Jackson and Andre are a good fit.

Evans won't be coming to Detroit. He can get paid by a lower-tier team or perhaps by the 76ers or Lakers, or he can take the MLE with a contender or with the Grizzlies (who have noted they'll offer it); should Conley, Gasol, and Parsons be happy, and whichever player Memphis takes with the 4th pick pan out well, that team will very likely be better than the Pistons, but I digress. Detroit is not a contender and cannot offer a higher-than-MLE salary; we will be near the end of the line for MLE-candidate players, and Evans will be the most sought-after of those.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#46 » by Manocad » Fri May 18, 2018 1:13 am

You don't think every GM in the NBA is now sitting back and saying, "Welp, Detroit really screwed the pooch on that one"? So unless you want to believe that there is another total idiot GM out there, I don't see how any GM approaches a trade for Griffin with something that actually makes the Pistons better minus Blake.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#47 » by Crymson » Fri May 18, 2018 1:34 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:You should join the other 20-25 boards on RealGm whose fans don't think their teams owners know nothing cuz their team ain't tanking or tanking right. We should just give up and just have an 8 top team season next year cuz fans think the rest of the league should gift their teams a top 3 pick. Why even play basketball anymore unless you have a superstar on your team. Why play TEAM basketball where TEAMS are developed?


I don't understand what you're even trying to argue here. That is totally irrelevant to anything I've said.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#48 » by Spider156 » Fri May 18, 2018 10:13 pm

More opportunities are popping up every day for a Blake trade. Rumors are out there KAT might be available this summer after choking hard in the Playoffs. Opportunities like Lowry, Derozan, Cousins, Wiggins, tons of teams are going to be looking for a proven star that can put up numbers in the Playoffs. I don't what you guys have to say about Blake but the man plays hard and gets his numbers in the Playoffs. These players all have their issues including Blake but I don't believe Blake has a negative trade value. His contract is absolutely dissolvable to teams considering a rising cap and plenty of players getting maxes that don't deserve it. It's going to be an exciting offseason in the league.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#49 » by A_dub06 » Fri May 18, 2018 11:51 pm

Spider156 wrote:More opportunities are popping up every day for a Blake trade. Rumors are out there KAT might be available this summer after choking hard in the Playoffs. Opportunities like Lowry, Derozan, Cousins, Wiggins, tons of teams are going to be looking for a proven star that can put up numbers in the Playoffs. I don't what you guys have to say about Blake but the man plays hard and gets his numbers in the Playoffs. These players all have their issues including Blake but I don't believe Blake has a negative trade value. His contract is absolutely dissolvable to teams considering a rising cap and plenty of players getting maxes that don't deserve it. It's going to be an exciting offseason in the league.


Stop, honestly just stop. There’s no defending the Blake trade, no rational person would actually push the agenda. Nobody has ever said Blake is a bad player, in fact they are quick to point out he is a good player but factoring in contract, fit and skill set he has negative value. Kat is in another league of his own and a player they would never consider using as trade bait for Blake **** Griffin. In fact, the clippers tried doing so before last season which caused the conversation to end very quickly. Taking into consideration Blake’s age, injury history, style of play and fit to each respective team it’s easy to see none of the teams with the players you listed would trade them straight up for Blake and they would be stupid to do so. All signs post-trade have pointed to us being the only team with a proposition for Blake and West even went on record recently saying that he thought the Clippers were stuck with no way out for several years until Detroit’s offer. The only way we trade Blake at this point is if we accept far inferior talent which is soon to expiring, that’s the best of what we can hope for. No team would be dumb enough to commit the same mistake we did in trading significant assets for the black hole that is Griffins contract.


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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#50 » by Snakebites » Sat May 19, 2018 12:12 am

Spider156 wrote:More opportunities are popping up every day for a Blake trade. Rumors are out there KAT might be available this summer after choking hard in the Playoffs. Opportunities like Lowry, Derozan, Cousins, Wiggins, tons of teams are going to be looking for a proven star that can put up numbers in the Playoffs. I don't what you guys have to say about Blake but the man plays hard and gets his numbers in the Playoffs. These players all have their issues including Blake but I don't believe Blake has a negative trade value. His contract is absolutely dissolvable to teams considering a rising cap and plenty of players getting maxes that don't deserve it. It's going to be an exciting offseason in the league.

Haha.

Dream big I guess.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#51 » by Spider156 » Sat May 19, 2018 12:13 am

A_dub06 wrote:
Spider156 wrote:More opportunities are popping up every day for a Blake trade. Rumors are out there KAT might be available this summer after choking hard in the Playoffs. Opportunities like Lowry, Derozan, Cousins, Wiggins, tons of teams are going to be looking for a proven star that can put up numbers in the Playoffs. I don't what you guys have to say about Blake but the man plays hard and gets his numbers in the Playoffs. These players all have their issues including Blake but I don't believe Blake has a negative trade value. His contract is absolutely dissolvable to teams considering a rising cap and plenty of players getting maxes that don't deserve it. It's going to be an exciting offseason in the league.


Stop, honestly just stop. There’s no defending the Blake trade, no rational person would actually push the agenda. Nobody has ever said Blake is a bad player, in fact they are quick to point out he is a good player but factoring in contract, fit and skill set he has negative value. Kat is in another league of his own and a player they would never consider using as trade bait for Blake **** Griffin. In fact, the clippers tried doing so before last season which caused the conversation to end very quickly. Taking into consideration Blake’s age, injury history, style of play and fit to each respective team it’s easy to see none of the teams with the players you listed would trade them straight up for Blake and they would be stupid to do so. All signs post-trade have pointed to us being the only team with a proposition for Blake and West even went on record recently saying that he thought the Clippers were stuck with no way out for several years until Detroit’s offer. The only way we trade Blake at this point is if we accept far inferior talent which is soon to expiring, that’s the best of what we can hope for. No team would be dumb enough to commit the same mistake we did in trading significant assets for the black hole that is Griffins contract.


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I don't agree with a lot of things you said. I have no idea why a player like Derozan deserves so much credit when he's done nothing for his team in the Playoffs and he's got a max contract. Blake alone turned the worst franchise in NBA history into a respectable one. There's no reason to hate on his contract with a guy like Wiggins got the max too and he's not close to deserving it. You'll notice tons of players will get signed for their potential and a guy like Blake will sit there and get disrespected when he's the hardest working player on the team and on the court. So no I don't agree with you at all and I think he's a great trading asset we have this offseason. Plenty teams will be desperate to trade for a player like him. You'll see what I mean.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#52 » by Manocad » Sat May 19, 2018 3:50 am

I don't believe we will see what you mean. Saying that Suck A isn't as bad as Suck B doesn't mean Suck A doesn't suck.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#53 » by buzzkilloton » Sat May 19, 2018 4:11 am

I'd rather have DDR then Blake anyday. DDR can actually stay on the court. Sure he doesnt show up in the playoffs but at least he gets u there. He also fits much better with Dre.

Blake was not alone in turning the clippers around. They had CP3,DAJ,Reddick,and multi 6th man of the year winner Crawford. That team was stacked with talent.

Not sure where the "Plenty teams will be desperate to trade for a player like him" theory comes from. He was just on the trading block and the only team interested was the pistons. Every star in recent years on the block you hear about multiple teams trying to go for them not in the case of Blake. Sure a team would take a chance on him if they didnt have to give up assets but nobody is offering up value for this guy. The rest of the nba is on to the fact hes overpaid and injured every year. A few pistons fans havent caught on yet but they will.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#54 » by mercury » Sat May 19, 2018 4:14 am

Balkman32 wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7047473

Who says no?

Melo says NO
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#55 » by Spider156 » Sat May 19, 2018 4:48 am

buzzkilloton wrote:I'd rather have DDR then Blake anyday. DDR can actually stay on the court. Sure he doesnt show up in the playoffs but at least he gets u there. He also fits much better with Dre.

Blake was not alone in turning the clippers around. They had CP3,DAJ,Reddick,and multi 6th man of the year winner Crawford. That team was stacked with talent.

Not sure where the "Plenty teams will be desperate to trade for a player like him" theory comes from. He was just on the trading block and the only team interested was the pistons. Every star in recent years on the block you hear about multiple teams trying to go for them not in the case of Blake. Sure a team would take a chance on him if they didnt have to give up assets but nobody is offering up value for this guy. The rest of the nba is on to the fact hes overpaid and injured every year. A few pistons fans havent caught on yet but they will.

None of those players would be there without Blake. CP3 wouldn't have went to Clippers without Blake and DAJ wouldn't be as good without Blake. Blake is literally the one player that changed that franchise. He was rookie of the year I believe. Don't take that away from him, he was huge for the Clippers franchise.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#56 » by tradez401 » Sat May 19, 2018 6:37 am



if blake can make the 3 more consistently n improve his conditioning (maybe losing 10 pounds might help him) he can be useful for this team goin forward.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#57 » by Snakebites » Sat May 19, 2018 7:08 am

Spider156 wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:I'd rather have DDR then Blake anyday. DDR can actually stay on the court. Sure he doesnt show up in the playoffs but at least he gets u there. He also fits much better with Dre.

Blake was not alone in turning the clippers around. They had CP3,DAJ,Reddick,and multi 6th man of the year winner Crawford. That team was stacked with talent.

Not sure where the "Plenty teams will be desperate to trade for a player like him" theory comes from. He was just on the trading block and the only team interested was the pistons. Every star in recent years on the block you hear about multiple teams trying to go for them not in the case of Blake. Sure a team would take a chance on him if they didnt have to give up assets but nobody is offering up value for this guy. The rest of the nba is on to the fact hes overpaid and injured every year. A few pistons fans havent caught on yet but they will.

None of those players would be there without Blake. CP3 wouldn't have went to Clippers without Blake and DAJ wouldn't be as good without Blake. Blake is literally the one player that changed that franchise. He was rookie of the year I believe. Don't take that away from him, he was huge for the Clippers franchise.


Even if what you say about Blake Griffin’s past as a player were true, what would it have to do with the version that exists now? You know, the one who’s worse than he’s ever been before as a player, plays fewer games, and makes more money than ever before?

GMs don’t place value on what a player has done before. At least smart GMs don’t. What they DO value is what they can do and will do in the future, relative to cost. It’s not a hard equation to work out. And it doesn’t come out favorably for Blake.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#58 » by Spider156 » Sat May 19, 2018 9:14 am

Snakebites wrote:
Spider156 wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:I'd rather have DDR then Blake anyday. DDR can actually stay on the court. Sure he doesnt show up in the playoffs but at least he gets u there. He also fits much better with Dre.

Blake was not alone in turning the clippers around. They had CP3,DAJ,Reddick,and multi 6th man of the year winner Crawford. That team was stacked with talent.

Not sure where the "Plenty teams will be desperate to trade for a player like him" theory comes from. He was just on the trading block and the only team interested was the pistons. Every star in recent years on the block you hear about multiple teams trying to go for them not in the case of Blake. Sure a team would take a chance on him if they didnt have to give up assets but nobody is offering up value for this guy. The rest of the nba is on to the fact hes overpaid and injured every year. A few pistons fans havent caught on yet but they will.

None of those players would be there without Blake. CP3 wouldn't have went to Clippers without Blake and DAJ wouldn't be as good without Blake. Blake is literally the one player that changed that franchise. He was rookie of the year I believe. Don't take that away from him, he was huge for the Clippers franchise.


Even if what you say about Blake Griffin’s past as a player were true, what would it have to do with the version that exists now? You know, the one who’s worse than he’s ever been before as a player, plays fewer games, and makes more money than ever before?

GMs don’t place value on what a player has done before. At least smart GMs don’t. What they DO value is what they can do and will do in the future, relative to cost. It’s not a hard equation to work out. And it doesn’t come out favorably for Blake.

The man averages 21.5pts/9.2rebs/4.2ast shooting at 50.8%fg and 32% 3pt for a power forward that's very good! Those numbers speak for themselves. Few years ago people used to beg for a 20/10 player and hoping Greg Monroe was going to be him :lol: Seeing how hard he plays on the floor solidifies his value in my eyes. Only thing people are hating on is his contract. But I'd rather be paying him that kind of money than Tobias that plays no defense and certainly can't play close to Blake's abilities and some average players like Galloway and Leuer just filling up the cap and warming the bench and they play maybe 20% of how hard Blake plays. At the end of the day, who's out there putting it all on the court? Contracts are relative. His contract is big but not the worst. There's plenty of other overpaid players on the team that don't deserve their contracts. Those contracts and the drafting were the mistake not Blake. You tell me the last star we got to come to Detroit and I'll remind you of Rodney Stuckey's days. We're a good talented team. Our pg just can't stay on the court and our coach had a pg run offense. It happens.
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#59 » by Spider156 » Sat May 19, 2018 9:22 am

tradez401 wrote:

if blake can make the 3 more consistently n improve his conditioning (maybe losing 10 pounds might help him) he can be useful for this team goin forward.

I can't for the life of me understand how people can hate on him. Those plays are unbelievable to see in a Pistons uniform. Every time I watch him play I'm mesmerized seeing how he can get to certain parts on the court. I mean this is beautiful talent on the floor and I personally really appreciate it. I don't care what sort of contract he's got. Pay the man! He's so good are you kidding me? Derozan can't get those shots up to save his life and I guarantee you Blake can do it on a consistent basis in the playoffs. I don't care what you guys have to say. What you guys are gonna hate on his 3pt shot? 32% from three isn't enough for a power forward? Is that 3% gonna make a world of difference. Yes. How can he get there. Maybe a real point or shooting guard might help! No he's not the problem. Beautiful watching him play, it still baffles me seeing a Piston play that well offensively. I love it. Sure he's overpaid but not like any other player past Drummond is worth their contract. Keep Blake!
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Re: Blake Griffin best trade scenario 

Post#60 » by Spider156 » Sat May 19, 2018 9:23 am

Manocad wrote:I don't believe we will see what you mean. Saying that Suck A isn't as bad as Suck B doesn't mean Suck A doesn't suck.

Yeah but if you compare it to the last 10 years of sucking, you'll take Suck A any day of the week.
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