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So Andre Drummond was arguing with Celtics fans that Stanley Johnson was better than Jaylen Brown (Why would you do that, Andre? For a myriad of reasons, why?). But what I found interesting is that he confirmed feeling the way we all felt about SVG's rookie leash. I don't mean this as a "Bash Stan" thread - he has a lot of positive qualities as a coach and a person. However, he did have a few weaknesses he could never overcome.





https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2018/07/23/andre-drummond-twitter-boston-celtics-fans/819953002/

Kennard also implied the same thing - not talking about SVG directly, but rather talking about what he liked about Casey as a coach:

“I think he’s going to develop us into great players,” he said. “I’m looking forward to that. He says people make mistakes, but he’s a guy where he can live with some mistakes – but move on and fix it. It does give me some confidence, does make me comfortable with what’s going on. I’m looking forward to it and I’m excited to put that work out here.”

https://www.nba.com/pistons/features/kennard-embraces-caseys-vision-more-time-ball-his-hands

SVG's rookie leash was real. Brilliant basketball mind but couldn't get out of his way at times.

Some players need leashes, need the carrot and the stick. If their response to the least little bit of adversity involves being a mental midget, it's on them, not SVG so much.

There's a misconception that SVG didn't give Stanley Johnson minutes which is not true at all. The dude played tons of minutes in his 3 years because of his defense. You can make a case for SVG not giving Johnson a defined offensive role but its not like SVG had much to work with. Stanley can't shoot for ****, has a loose handle, and is turnover prone.

Stanley got more minutes than he earned.

It's pretty clean SJ and Stan never got on the same page to maximize SJ's potential. That reflects poorly on both of them. They both knew it wasn't working but neither would set aside their ego's long enough to fix it.

I wouldn't say SJ got more minutes than he deserved. We just didn't have a lot of options on the wing and he plays good enough defense to stay on the court.

A few thoughts:
1. Dre is correct, at least in general about SVG's rookie leash.
2. But it's not like Stanley didn't have plenty of opportunities. He actually played a good amount as a rookie, and his offense seemed to regress. Now how much of that was due to being afraid to make mistakes and get benched? Hard to say
3. Arguing with Celtics fans on twitter is not a good use of time, for anyone, let alone Andre. But I'm glad to see he has his teammate's back at least.

Yes, it could be an early complaint but last year with the Morris trade SVG all but gifted the starting position to him and he ended up pissing it away.

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Well Kennard must have been pretty good cause he played a good amount of mins. But I saw games where he was pulled early for a mistake.

I think it’s more about how he yanks them for a mistake while giving others endless mess ups on the court. It can lead to guys playing to tight or overthinking things.

I dont think Stanley is as talented as Jaylen Brown. That said theirs no question in my mind that if Stanley played under Brad he wouldnt of turned out to be at least a solid nba player.

Uncle Mxy wrote:Some players need leashes, need the carrot and the stick. If their response to the least little bit of adversity involves being a mental midget, it's on them, not SVG so much.

I thought Johnson responded well to it but unfortunately you just can't get a rhythm offensively if you're getting pulled out after 2 missed shots. But I'd say the leash made Johnson a top tier defender. I think this season he might figure it out offensively. We'll see

pollack419 wrote:Well Kennard must have been pretty good cause he played a good amount of mins. But I saw games where he was pulled early for a mistake.

Yes...and that's the problem with SVG. It's not so much the minutes allowed as was his poor timing on when to pull a rookie. Bad enough after a physical mistake, but too often they are pulled when they're playing good. Both cause loss of confidence and confusion.

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Laimbeer wrote:Stanley got more minutes than he earned.

Yes. I actually thought it was amazing how many chances the guy kept getting.

The only guy you can even remotely make a case for in this regard is Luke.

It’s unsurprising to see Drummond sticking up for his teammates though. No issues with that.

I think they tried to change SJs shot too much also. Lots of great shooters have low releases.

But yeah the SVg leash yanking is real. But thats why you overpay your journeymen vets, so you can yank your young talent for every mistake they make.

not sure if Henry Ellenson should qualify as an NBA player.

Spider156 wrote:I thought Johnson responded well to it but unfortunately you just can't get a rhythm offensively if you're getting pulled out after 2 missed shots. But I'd say the leash made Johnson a top tier defender. I think this season he might figure it out offensively. We'll see

Stanley at the end of his rookie season was a trainwreck that seemed to go on into the next season.

Uncle Mxy wrote:

Spider156 wrote:I thought Johnson responded well to it but unfortunately you just can't get a rhythm offensively if you're getting pulled out after 2 missed shots. But I'd say the leash made Johnson a top tier defender. I think this season he might figure it out offensively. We'll see

Stanley at the end of his rookie season was a trainwreck that seemed to go on into the next season.

I definitely agree he's lost offensively. I don't believe he'll figure it out and that's why I wouldn't mind trading him and Jackson for a better PG. But Jackson needs to play and get his value up before that happens.

Andre isn't wrong. SVG was a trash coach if you're looking for any long term development out of a bad team with lot of youth. Gores just chased the biggest name available, similar to his pursuit of Casey this summer.

At least Casey seems to be aware that this team needs some major investments in player development. We'll see if that's actually the case when game time comes in October.

The same complaints we had for Stan are same ones Casey is walking into the door with. Will he be better than him in that regard? The Toronto front office had to force him to make changes last season.

Stanley did get plenty of opportunities and he had his moments especially last year when we were rolling early in the season. Stanley and Avery Bradley harass and frustrate opposing teams SGs/SFs was one of the high points. Doing anything offensively when the league scouted and figured out our offense was clearly the low points.

I thought we could have utilized him more on the Drummond high post dribble handoffs that was added to the offense. That play was ran for Avery Bradley a lot, probably too much since he was a small 2 and would have trouble finishing sometimes. More of those should have went to Stanley instead of him watching the play on the opposite side of the court.

Either way, I think we got all we're going to get out of Stanley and should probably part ways. He'll find a role for a team somewhere that doesn't unfortunately need him to be Jimmy Butler like we did.

Giving someone minutes and putting them in a role to succeed are two different things. Stanley Johnson is not a 3&D player. He is more Lance Stephenson than Trevor Ariza. Stan gave him minutes and told him to stand in a corner and shoot shots he had no business taking.