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Richard Miller wrote:

Invictus88 wrote:

Richard Miller wrote:
How is that even relevant? Bowen didn't suddenly start shooting 3s in 02-03, he was shooting them every season.

BDM was trying to provide in Bowen a counterexample to your implying that Dre is unlikely to be a good three point shooter based solely on his free throw shooting percentage. (You mentioned FT shooting in relation to Lopez and Gasol)

You then pointed out a previously unmentioned variable (experience shooting 3s in years previous) as a reason why Bowen isn't a relevant counterexample.

It may very well be that lack of 3pt. shooting experience lessens the likelihood of Drummond being successful. However, that point wasn't related to the previous line of discussion. BDM's point was.

Nope, I never said it's solely because of FT percentage - to put it simply there's nothing to suggest Drummond would be a decent 3pt shooter, he doesn't have the touch, he's poor from FT line, poor from midrange, and so on, of course it's not impossible, but it's easy to see why people are skeptical (which whitehops thought to be mind-boggling).

The only thing said in your reply was mentioning Brook Lopez, Pau Gasol, and free throw percentage. So while you might mean something more in your mind, you didn't actually state it in the thread for others to read. BDM replied to what you did state and you called it irrelevant.

I'm not saying Drummond will be a good 3pt shooter. You are correct that there isn't any direct evidence to support it. But I was surprised with his improvements from last offseason so why not try?

Invictus88 wrote:I'm not saying Drummond will be a good 3pt shooter. You are correct that there isn't any direct evidence to support it. But I was surprised with his improvements from last offseason so why not try?

I get it, however how much time for experiments Pistons have? It's great if Dre can hit an occasional three, but him being mediocre 3p shooter isn't going to move the needle much.

Richard Miller wrote:

Invictus88 wrote:I'm not saying Drummond will be a good 3pt shooter. You are correct that there isn't any direct evidence to support it. But I was surprised with his improvements from last offseason so why not try?

I get it, however how much time for experiments Pistons have?

lol i'd say 2-3 years since were not a major playoff team and the nba bein overkilled by the warriors we have enough time.

I get that the corner is a shorter shot, and SHOOTERS look at it like a lay up.... Dre is NOT a 'shooter'.

IMO, he should be looking to shoot the 3 from the top of the circle - just like Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez and Valanciunas. That is a MUCH more effective shot for a previously non-shooting center. When he's at the top cycling the offense, and reversing the ball, or going DHO, the defensive big gets to sag right back to the free throw line or lower. With that top of the circle 3 at even 35%, he's going to get WIDE open looks. If he shoots it at a higher clip, then the defender steps high and lanes are open.

The corner 3 for a center is stupid IMO. if you have your guy at the low block, or dunker spot, and send him out to the corner, a defensive big isn't going to chase. At best, they'll go to the short corner, allowing himself room to recover on even a weakside drive.

I think this is a classic schematic issue where I look at Casey and go "WTF bro?"

I agree CoachD. It doesn't make sense to have your center in the corner shooting just because of defensive transition. If they're going to shoot 3s let them do it with a defensive 'head start.' Ideally, they'll be setting a lot of picks to get the shooters good opportunities.

hoophabit wrote:I agree CoachD. It doesn't make sense to have your center in the corner shooting just because of defensive transition. If they're going to shoot 3s let them do it with a defensive 'head start.' Ideally, they'll be setting a lot of picks to get the shooters good opportunities.

Which shooters? As things stand, Bullock will be the only good three-point shooter in the starting lineup---and that assumes he shoots as well as he did for most of last season. From the bench, there's Kennard and maybe GR3. That is all, unless other players make big strides.

This team cannot really pick and choose from whence it gets offense. It has an almost comical lack of shooting, thanks to the Griffin trade (and the depth it denied the Pistons the opportunity to gain this summer).

Crymson wrote:

hoophabit wrote:I agree CoachD. It doesn't make sense to have your center in the corner shooting just because of defensive transition. If they're going to shoot 3s let them do it with a defensive 'head start.' Ideally, they'll be setting a lot of picks to get the shooters good opportunities.

Which shooters? As things stand, Bullock will be the only good three-point shooter in the starting lineup---and that assumes he shoots as well as he did for most of last season. From the bench, there's Kennard and maybe GR3. That is all, unless other players make big strides.

This team cannot really pick and choose from whence it gets offense. It has an almost comical lack of shooting, thanks to the Griffin trade (and the depth it denied the Pistons the opportunity to gain this summer).

I congratulate you on having worked out this year's rotation already. Maybe the much despised Leuer will come back from his ankle surgery and look like he did initially? Galloway, in a suitable role, is a decent spot up shooter. Griffin's contract is sizable, but he's still a very versatile player. Still, I should have said setting a lot of picks to set up scoring. I'm hoping we'll improve the 'to-the-basket' game as well. Why we watch.

hoophabit wrote:Maybe the much despised Leuer will come back from his ankle surgery and look like he did initially?

You mean unable to shoot threes? Yeah, let's hope not.

Galloway, in a suitable role, is a decent spot up shooter.

You give him the ball and hope he gets hot. If he does, great. If he doesn't, it's bricks galore. He's extremely streaky and is not reliable.

Griffin's contract is sizable, but he's still a very versatile player.

Who cannot shoot, beyond his wide-open threes.

Still, I should have said setting a lot of picks to set up scoring.

For the very few shooters on the roster. That's what was so brutally comedic about the trade: we got another playmaker for a team that lacked enough shooting to begin with, and gave up OUR BEST SHOOTER in exchange. The result was a starting lineup that had four able playmakers and one good shooter, and this was a predictable disaster. When Jackson returned, the starting lineup still had only one good shooter.

tradez401 wrote:

Richard Miller wrote:

Invictus88 wrote:I'm not saying Drummond will be a good 3pt shooter. You are correct that there isn't any direct evidence to support it. But I was surprised with his improvements from last offseason so why not try?

I get it, however how much time for experiments Pistons have?

lol i'd say 2-3 years since were not a major playoff team and the nba bein overkilled by the warriors we have enough time.

In 2-3 years Drummond might not even be here anymore.

In 2-3 years someone will offer Drummond the veteran's minimum to play on a team like Toronto. :/

Crymson wrote:

hoophabit wrote:Maybe the much despised Leuer will come back from his ankle surgery and look like he did initially?

You mean unable to shoot threes? Yeah, let's hope not.

Galloway, in a suitable role, is a decent spot up shooter.

You give him the ball and hope he gets hot. If he does, great. If he doesn't, it's bricks galore. He's extremely streaky and is not reliable.

Griffin's contract is sizable, but he's still a very versatile player.

Who cannot shoot, beyond his wide-open threes.

Still, I should have said setting a lot of picks to set up scoring.

For the very few shooters on the roster. That's what was so brutally comedic about the trade: we got another playmaker for a team that lacked enough shooting to begin with, and gave up OUR BEST SHOOTER in exchange. The result was a starting lineup that had four able playmakers and one good shooter, and this was a predictable disaster. When Jackson returned, the starting lineup still had only one good shooter.

No doubt you can imagine my shock and disappointment at not winning you over to the 'bright side.' Kennard isn't a shooter? Thomas was projected as a likely 1st rounder based on his shooting and defense. Leuer came up lame around the All Star break his first season with the Pistons, and lost the entire next. He may never be 'his old self,' but guys do come back. Leuer was acceptably effective prior to this injury. Tobias does shoot well, although he's as pure a tweener as you'll ever find. NBA trends that are regarded as the 'future of the league' rarely prove so. So much depends on the serendipitous nature of team building, and how rarely a successful team can be recreated out of other parts. Blake was a major gamble, and few have disputed it.

As for Drummond, until rebounding becomes irrelevant to basketball, he'll be just a bit more valuable than a Greg Monroe, who himself is not a bad rebounder. The difference in athleticism, however, is stark. This board often makes me think of the old saw, "familiarity breeds contempt."

I have been pleasantly surprised enough times to avoid complete despair, and prefer to just see how things turn out.

I talked to Andre yesterday at the doctor it was pretty cool. You guys should have seen the crew he had with him.

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CoachD wrote:I get that the corner is a shorter shot, and SHOOTERS look at it like a lay up.... Dre is NOT a 'shooter'.

IMO, he should be looking to shoot the 3 from the top of the circle - just like Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez and Valanciunas. That is a MUCH more effective shot for a previously non-shooting center. When he's at the top cycling the offense, and reversing the ball, or going DHO, the defensive big gets to sag right back to the free throw line or lower. With that top of the circle 3 at even 35%, he's going to get WIDE open looks. If he shoots it at a higher clip, then the defender steps high and lanes are open.

The corner 3 for a center is stupid IMO. if you have your guy at the low block, or dunker spot, and send him out to the corner, a defensive big isn't going to chase. At best, they'll go to the short corner, allowing himself room to recover on even a weakside drive.

I think this is a classic schematic issue where I look at Casey and go "WTF bro?"

Agreed. Plus, the corner generally is just a kind of weird shot in general. It's great when you're absolutely wide open, but usually there's very little ways you can actually pull off offensive maneuvers because of the less field in general when you're stuck out there. That and you basically have to be on your tippy toes the whole time since the 3 line and out of bounds is ridiculous.

So how's his new rap album?

DBC10 wrote:Agreed. Plus, the corner generally is just a kind of weird shot in general. It's great when you're absolutely wide open, but usually there's very little ways you can actually pull off offensive maneuvers because of the less field in general when you're stuck out there. That and you basically have to be on your tippy toes the whole time since the 3 line and out of bounds is ridiculous.

Statistically speaking it is the most efficient 3 point shot out there, generally because you're less likely to be guarded and because it's a touch shorter.

But yeah, kinda tough to see how any of this is going to work on the floor.

Kilo wrote:So how's his new rap album?

Probably as bad as Lillard’s, Levon Bell’s, kobe, Tony Parker, and Durant’s. All Hofers who nobody ever questioned their work ethic because they decided to have fun and not expected to be shooting hook shots 24/7.

ComboGuardCity wrote:

Kilo wrote:So how's his new rap album?

Probably as bad as Lillard’s, Levon Bell’s, kobe, Tony Parker, and Durant’s. All Hofers who nobody ever questioned their work ethic because they decided to have fun and not expected to be shooting hook shots 24/7.

Not the point of the post, but to be fair, Dame's is actually pretty good.

ComboGuardCity wrote:

Kilo wrote:So how's his new rap album?

Probably as bad as Lillard’s, Levon Bell’s, kobe, Tony Parker, and Durant’s. All Hofers who nobody ever questioned their work ethic because they decided to have fun and not expected to be shooting hook shots 24/7.

Why are you comparing Hofers to Drummond?

flow wrote:

ComboGuardCity wrote:

Kilo wrote:So how's his new rap album?

Probably as bad as Lillard’s, Levon Bell’s, kobe, Tony Parker, and Durant’s. All Hofers who nobody ever questioned their work ethic because they decided to have fun and not expected to be shooting hook shots 24/7.

Why are you comparing Hofers to Drummond?

Because if he continues to put up the same numbers for 5 years then he’s a hofer.

flow wrote:

ComboGuardCity wrote:

Kilo wrote:So how's his new rap album?

Probably as bad as Lillard’s, Levon Bell’s, kobe, Tony Parker, and Durant’s. All Hofers who nobody ever questioned their work ethic because they decided to have fun and not expected to be shooting hook shots 24/7.

Why are you comparing Hofers to Drummond?

I think people don't realize that Andre has/had the most rebounds before turning 25 years old in NBA history.

Go ahead and look at the top 20 guys in total career rebounds and tell me how many aren't HOFers.

If Andre has decent longevity he could end up in the top 5-10 range all-time.