Detroit declining Ellenson's 4th year option

thesack12 · Post #41 » by **thesack12** » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:34 pm

Detroit should approach Henry about a buyout.

Him being on this roster is not doing anything for the team or Henry himself. The guy will soon be fighting for his NBA life, and sporadically playing in the G league or decomposing at the end of the Pistons' bench isn't going to help him any. He's currently injured, so I think he would want to stick around to get that free rehab. After healing up that I think he would be very open to being cut loose to seek an opportunity elsewhere.

Buying out Henry would be doubly beneficial for Detroit. 1) They open up a roster spot, for potential trading/TPE use/free agent signing purposes. 2) They would also save some money. They are about $400k under the tax currently. Assuming a buyout would occur after Henry gets healthy, that would be roughly the halfway point of the season. The money saved with the buyout would probably be enough to open up the option to sign someone for the pro-rated minimum while still saying below the tax line.

Is it just me, or does buying out Henry make too much sense?

Kilo · Post #42 » by **Kilo** » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:59 pm

Why would Henry accept a penny less - I mean to make it worth the Piston's while it would have to be a hundreds of thousands in savings considering we're a mere $400K under the tax and to sign a replacement would be vets minimum of $1.4M, so buying out Henry does nothing for our financial situation. I mean Henry is going to leave $200K on the table and not get signed anywhere ROS? I guess maybe he could head to G-League and play there full time - why hasn't he been playing in G-League recently? Has he played down there since he broke his nose? Did he injure something else now?

I think it would be scummy for Pistons to try and nickle and dime the kid when their billionaire owner could just cut him and pay the tax to sign somebody else.

DetroitSho · Post #43 » by **DetroitSho** » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:14 am

Kilo wrote:Why would Henry accept a penny less - I mean to make it worth the Piston's while it would have to be a hundreds of thousands in savings considering we're a mere $400K under the tax and to sign a replacement would be vets minimum of $1.4M, so buying out Henry does nothing for our financial situation. I mean Henry is going to leave $200K on the table and not get signed anywhere ROS? I guess maybe he could head to G-League and play there full time - why hasn't he been playing in G-League recently? Has he played down there since he broke his nose? Did he injure something else now?

I think it would be scummy for Pistons to try and nickle and dime the kid when their billionaire owner could just cut him and pay the tax to sign somebody else.

Nothing else needs to be added to this statement. There's no reason to believe someone would actually pick Henry up.

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thesack12 · Post #44 » by **thesack12** » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:59 am

Kilo wrote:Why would Henry accept a penny less - I mean to make it worth the Piston's while it would have to be a hundreds of thousands in savings considering we're a mere $400K under the tax and to sign a replacement would be vets minimum of $1.4M, so buying out Henry does nothing for our financial situation. I mean Henry is going to leave $200K on the table and not get signed anywhere ROS? I guess maybe he could head to G-League and play there full time - why hasn't he been playing in G-League recently? Has he played down there since he broke his nose? Did he injure something else now?

I think it would be scummy for Pistons to try and nickle and dime the kid when their billionaire owner could just cut him and pay the tax to sign somebody else.

Henry does it to seek out a situation where he might actually be able to get some minutes. What does rotting at the end of the bench the ROS do for his future aspirations?

Is there a chance nobody picks him up, sure. But he's only 2.5 years removed from being a 1st rounder, and he's never really played. And lets be honest here, Detroit doesn't exactly have the best reputation around the league of developing young players. I think its entirely logical to think some team would take a cheap flyer on him for the ROS. A team like Atlanta only has John Collins and Omari Spellman at PF. What would it hurt them to bring Henry in? Also, I think its pretty safe to assume that if a buyout discussion were to occur, his agent would be free to put out feelers to gauge interest in him. If nobody seems interested, no harm no foul in having the conversation because Henry is definitely not returning next season regardless.

As for the Pistons side, you're forgetting the pro-rated factor in signing a new player to the minimum. If a new player was signed at about the 40 game mark, Detroit would only be responsible for $700k or so for cap/tax computing purposes. So they would only need to save a couple hundred K in a buyout. Can't forget freeing up the roster spot as well, which could be very useful for trading purposes.

I guess you could view it as scummy, but it could also be viewed as doing Henry a solid to free him up to find a better situation for himself. If things stay status quo, its going to be much harder for him to find a contract this summer when he's competing against all the other free agents, as opposed to now when there isn't much on the market.

Invictus88 · Post #45 » by **Invictus88** » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:02 am

I just don't really see the point. The contract is only 1.8 mill. Henry doesn't seem to be sulking on the bench. If we found someone compelling to sign in his place then I assume we would have already dropped him.

As it stands just keep the expiring until the trade deadline at least before doing anything.

thesack12 · Post #46 » by **thesack12** » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:24 am

Invictus88 wrote:I just don't really see the point. The contract is only 1.8 mill. Henry doesn't seem to be sulking on the bench. If we found someone compelling to sign in his place then I assume we would have already dropped him.

As it stands just keep the expiring until the trade deadline at least before doing anything.

Team is currently only around $450k below the luxury tax. That being the case, its not simply a matter of waiving Henry and signing someone they might see as a better option. Right now the cap hit to bring in someone else on a minimum deal would be about $1 mil. A street free agent isn't worth going into the luxury tax for.

Invictus88 · Post #47 » by **Invictus88** » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:03 am

thesack12 wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:I just don't really see the point. The contract is only 1.8 mill. Henry doesn't seem to be sulking on the bench. If we found someone compelling to sign in his place then I assume we would have already dropped him.

As it stands just keep the expiring until the trade deadline at least before doing anything.

Team is currently only around $450k below the luxury tax. That being the case, its not simply a matter of waiving Henry and signing someone they might see as a better option. Right now the cap hit to bring in someone else on a minimum deal would be about $1 mil. A street free agent isn't worth going into the luxury tax for.

Right. So all the more reason to just hold onto him until the trade deadline.

Kilo · Post #48 » by **Kilo** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:08 am

Why is this kid not playing in the G-League right now? Does he have another injury over the broken nose. You'd think he'd be pretty desperate to play all the minutes he can as he's likely dangerously close to being out of the league next year. Probably looking at Euro ball or a 2-way deal unless we keep him for the minimum (which we shouldn't as of today).

MotownMadness · Post #49 » by **MotownMadness** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:38 am

Kilo wrote:Why is this kid not playing in the G-League right now? Does he have another injury over the broken nose. You'd think he'd be pretty desperate to play all the minutes he can as he's likely dangerously close to being out of the league next year. Probably looking at Euro ball or a 2-way deal unless we keep him for the minimum (which we shouldn't as of today).

Someone will probably give him a shot. He’s still young and most teams were just scouting him in the lottery a few years ago. Could see someone pulling out a old scouting file and thinking there’s something to work with.

He’s too soft and will probably be done after that though

Moses ShamMoses · Post #50 » by **Moses ShamMoses** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:07 am

Whats the chances he's another Dinwiddie? A guy who wasn't good for the Pistons in limited minutes but didn't really get much of a shot.

sfballa13 · Post #51 » by **sfballa13** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:18 am

Ellenson, Kennard, and Stanely could have and should have been traded last summer

DetroitSho · Post #52 » by **DetroitSho** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:56 am

sfballa13 wrote:Ellenson, Kennard, and Stanely could have and should have been traded last summer

Why?

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Moses ShamMoses · Post #53 » by **Moses ShamMoses** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:07 pm

There was no reason to trade Kennard over the summer...You could make a case for Stanley or Ellenson but I'm sure the offers weren't moving the needle any so we stayed put.

DetroitSho · Post #54 » by **DetroitSho** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:14 pm

Moses ShamMoses wrote:There was no reason to trade Kennard over the summer...You could make a case for Stanley or Ellenson but I'm sure the offers weren't moving the needle any so we stayed put.

To say it about Stanley even with the hindsight of his improved play is odd at best. The return you'd get for Stanley now as opposed to back in the summer is night and day.

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Kilo · Post #55 » by **Kilo** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:22 pm

Coaches think they can unlock and save busting players. At least Casey's confidence in his coaching abilities isn't as bad as Josh Smith debacle with SVG. Johnson is actually playing decent enough under Casey and something could still be there. I'm beginning to think Kennard isn't right for the Casey system, not that he's a bust or anything, just might need to be moved to a hard ass coach and rigid system. Ellenson is hopeless.

DetroitSho · Post #56 » by **DetroitSho** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:43 pm

Kilo wrote:Coaches think they can unlock and save busting players. At least Casey's confidence in his coaching abilities isn't as bad as Josh Smith debacle with SVG. Johnson is actually playing decent enough under Casey and something could still be there. I'm beginning to think Kennard isn't right for the Casey system, not that he's a bust or anything, just might need to be moved to a hard ass coach and rigid system. Ellenson is hopeless.

I don't care what system you're in you still need to knockdown open shots. It's not a system thing, it's a "make your freaking shots" thing. If Kennard was hitting his shots nobody would be saying anything about fitting the system.

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Billl · Post #57 » by **Billl** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:03 pm

DetroitSho wrote:
Kilo wrote:Coaches think they can unlock and save busting players. At least Casey's confidence in his coaching abilities isn't as bad as Josh Smith debacle with SVG. Johnson is actually playing decent enough under Casey and something could still be there. I'm beginning to think Kennard isn't right for the Casey system, not that he's a bust or anything, just might need to be moved to a hard ass coach and rigid system. Ellenson is hopeless.
I don't care what system you're in you still need to knockdown open shots. It's not a system thing, it's a "make your freaking shots" thing. If Kennard was hitting his shots nobody would be saying anything about fitting the system.

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We all know Luke can make open jumpers. The problem is that he's not particularly aggressive and he hasn't gotten very good about playing off the ball. He seems to need a lot of touches to make much/any impact. We don't need him to be a langston level chucker, but all of the impact shooters in the league have very high shot to touch ratios.

DetroitSho · Post #58 » by **DetroitSho** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:02 pm

Billl wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:
Kilo wrote:Coaches think they can unlock and save busting players. At least Casey's confidence in his coaching abilities isn't as bad as Josh Smith debacle with SVG. Johnson is actually playing decent enough under Casey and something could still be there. I'm beginning to think Kennard isn't right for the Casey system, not that he's a bust or anything, just might need to be moved to a hard ass coach and rigid system. Ellenson is hopeless.
I don't care what system you're in you still need to knockdown open shots. It's not a system thing, it's a "make your freaking shots" thing. If Kennard was hitting his shots nobody would be saying anything about fitting the system.

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We all know Luke can make open jumpers. The problem is that he's not particularly aggressive and he hasn't gotten very good about playing off the ball. He seems to need a lot of touches to make much/any impact. We don't need him to be a langston level chucker, but all of the impact shooters in the league have very high shot to touch ratios.

Actually we DO need him to be a Langston level chucker. That's actually one of the things I like about Langston, he'll get his shots up and he'll eventually get hot. There's plenty of opportunities for touches for Kennard. It's on him to hunt for them.

Kennard and Bullock are very similar offensively except Kennard is a much better ballhandler and better at creating his shot. But somehow Bullock always seems to find himself wide tf open and ready to shoot. Ask yourself why.

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MotownMadness · Post #59 » by **MotownMadness** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:39 pm

DetroitSho wrote:
Billl wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:I don't care what system you're in you still need to knockdown open shots. It's not a system thing, it's a "make your freaking shots" thing. If Kennard was hitting his shots nobody would be saying anything about fitting the system.

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We all know Luke can make open jumpers. The problem is that he's not particularly aggressive and he hasn't gotten very good about playing off the ball. He seems to need a lot of touches to make much/any impact. We don't need him to be a langston level chucker, but all of the impact shooters in the league have very high shot to touch ratios.
Actually we DO need him to be a Langston level chucker. That's actually one of the things I like about Langston, he'll get his shots up and he'll eventually get hot. There's plenty of opportunities for touches for Kennard. It's on him to hunt for them.

Kennard and Bullock are very similar offensively except Kennard is a much better ballhandler and better at creating his shot. But somehow Bullock always seems to find himself wide tf open and ready to shoot. Ask yourself why.

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Give him time man. Luke can shoot but he’s still a bit hesitant. He will grow out of it. This is exactly why our young guys get better everywhere else cause nobody has the patience to develop them.

DetroitSho · Post #60 » by **DetroitSho** » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:42 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:
Billl wrote:
We all know Luke can make open jumpers. The problem is that he's not particularly aggressive and he hasn't gotten very good about playing off the ball. He seems to need a lot of touches to make much/any impact. We don't need him to be a langston level chucker, but all of the impact shooters in the league have very high shot to touch ratios.
Actually we DO need him to be a Langston level chucker. That's actually one of the things I like about Langston, he'll get his shots up and he'll eventually get hot. There's plenty of opportunities for touches for Kennard. It's on him to hunt for them.

Kennard and Bullock are very similar offensively except Kennard is a much better ballhandler and better at creating his shot. But somehow Bullock always seems to find himself wide tf open and ready to shoot. Ask yourself why.

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Give him time man. Luke can shoot but he’s still a bit hesitant. He will grow out of it. This is exactly why our young guys get better everywhere else cause nobody has the patience to develop them.

Well I'm one of the people advocating for Luke. I'm not ready to throw him out like some others. But at the same time you shouldn't have to tell a shooter to shoot. He should be sporting wood every time Blake gets doubled. If he won't shoot or is hesitant then he's just Ilyasova all over again.

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