ImageImageImage

Our wings are horrible.... Seriously!

Moderators: Snakebites, theBigLip, dVs33

User avatar
Snakebites
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 46,302
And1: 14,607
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Location: Looking not-so-happily deranged
   

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#21 » by Snakebites » Sun Nov 4, 2018 5:21 pm

Kilo wrote:It doesn't matter what we might want. It's what Gores wants and he wants to win now. He traded for Blake Griffin to pay him $120M not to rebuild with him. He brought in COY Casey and paid him $7M a year on a five year contract not to tank over it and rebuild again to be competitive just as that gaudy contract is up. This is very likely Casey's last stop - he didn't sign on to rebuild. He was going to get paid to stay home for the season by Toronto and could have waited for a mid-season phone call or next off-season when 3-4-5 vacancies opened up.

This team isn't going to ride it out, let the bad contracts expire and then start a slow rebuild. Gores wants in the playoffs. Gores forced swapping out 8,000 lower bowl seats from red to black because he didn't like how the empty seats showed up on television.

You're right of course.

It doesn't matter what we want, there is a sense of futility in my repeating over and over again what we really SHOULD do when it's been pretty well telegraphed what's actually going to happen.

This season and the last few are showing pretty clearly what it looks like when you push in to win now but you don't actually have the chips to make it happen. And I guess everyone can see it but our owner.
User avatar
Manocad
RealGM
Posts: 69,969
And1: 10,561
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: Middle Fingerton
Contact:
       

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#22 » by Manocad » Sun Nov 4, 2018 7:54 pm

Kilo wrote:It doesn't matter what we might want. It's what Gores wants and he wants to win now. He traded for Blake Griffin to pay him $120M not to rebuild with him. He brought in COY Casey and paid him $7M a year on a five year contract not to tank over it and rebuild again to be competitive just as that gaudy contract is up. This is very likely Casey's last stop - he didn't sign on to rebuild. He was going to get paid to stay home for the season by Toronto and could have waited for a mid-season phone call or next off-season when 3-4-5 vacancies opened up.

This team isn't going to ride it out, let the bad contracts expire and then start a slow rebuild. Gores wants in the playoffs. Gores forced swapping out 8,000 lower bowl seats from red to black because he didn't like how the empty seats showed up on television.

Sure. Gores riding it out may very likely never happen and maybe some posters here get tired of hearing other posters saying that's what Gores should do. Similarly, knowing Gores wants to win now doesn't mean other teams go full ruhtard and give the Pistons good players for garbage, or that a superstar is going to come to Detroit because the team is OH SO CLOSE to being a championship contender. The posts suggesting that's a reality get old too.
Image
vic
Veteran
Posts: 2,570
And1: 1,044
Joined: Dec 27, 2012

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#23 » by vic » Sun Nov 4, 2018 8:55 pm

hate to bring it up again but if we had any gM other than SVG the last year or two, the lineup would be:

RJ
Donovan Mitchell
Stanley Johnson/Miles Bridges
Tobias Harris
Drummond

Our biggest convo would be when will Miles takoever for Stanley JOhnson on the starters
You need 2-way wings, 2-way shooting bigs, and you can't allow low iq players on the court. Assist/turnover ratio is crucial. Shooting point guards are icing on the cake IF they are plus defenders.
Weaver & Casey, govern yourselves accordingly!
User avatar
Uncle Mxy
General Manager
Posts: 9,065
And1: 1,928
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
Location: I plead the Fifth Dimension

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#24 » by Uncle Mxy » Mon Nov 5, 2018 11:49 am

vic wrote:hate to bring it up again but if we had any gM other than SVG the last year or two, the lineup would be:

RJ
Donovan Mitchell
Stanley Johnson/Miles Bridges
Tobias Harris
Drummond

Our biggest convo would be when will Miles takoever for Stanley JOhnson on the starters

Our biggest concern would still be RJ getting hurt again.
BDM22
RealGM
Posts: 10,952
And1: 3,981
Joined: Feb 26, 2005

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#25 » by BDM22 » Tue Nov 6, 2018 4:13 am

Uncle Mxy wrote:
vic wrote:hate to bring it up again but if we had any gM other than SVG the last year or two, the lineup would be:

RJ
Donovan Mitchell
Stanley Johnson/Miles Bridges
Tobias Harris
Drummond

Our biggest convo would be when will Miles takoever for Stanley JOhnson on the starters

Our biggest concern would still be RJ getting hurt again.


And are we gonna give Tobias the 140-180M he's looking for.
User avatar
Snakebites
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 46,302
And1: 14,607
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Location: Looking not-so-happily deranged
   

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#26 » by Snakebites » Tue Nov 6, 2018 5:23 am

We don't have a good enough situation to point to any one draft pick or other call as totally turning this around had the team acted differently.

It takes years and years of consistently poor decisions to get where we are, and only sustained prudent decisions over the course of years will get us out. Unfortunately as has been demonstrated, that's just not the mental space the owner is in right now. He still seems to think that tinkering can turn a bad team into a good one. It....can't.
flow
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,033
And1: 2,339
Joined: Feb 18, 2016

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#27 » by flow » Tue Nov 6, 2018 12:11 pm

vic wrote:I completely blame SVG’s point guard fetish. For SVG, point guard was his only hope and solution to everything. We signed Jameer Nelson. Last year, for goodness sake.

SVG had no eye for wings. Fortunately Ed Stefanski seems to be a lot better at drafting. Drafting well (not tanking) but drafting well is the only way to have lasting success in the league. Trades can make you better for 1 or 2 years, but drafting WELL and team building builds dynasties.

And it’s not a crapshoot. You just need a front office that can do it.


He didn't have a point guard fetish. He had a Reggie Jackson fetish. Jameer Nelson was just a garbage panic desperation move once RJ was lost for the season. His only real PG move after trading for RJ in the middle of the 2014/2015 season was signing Ish as backup. All other moves/signings during SVG's regime were for non-pg positions. He hitched his wagon to RJ, for some reason.
DTP
General Manager
Posts: 8,478
And1: 6,765
Joined: May 04, 2006
Location: Ohio
     

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#28 » by DTP » Tue Nov 6, 2018 12:28 pm

Bullock will snap out of his funk, he's too good of a shooter not to. And getting Luke back will help too....he just needs minutes.
Billl
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,291
And1: 2,349
Joined: Sep 06, 2013

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#29 » by Billl » Tue Nov 6, 2018 2:13 pm

On the plus side, GR3 looks pretty solid. He's got a well rounded game and can space the floor. He really should have been a starter from day 1.
User avatar
Snakebites
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 46,302
And1: 14,607
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Location: Looking not-so-happily deranged
   

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#30 » by Snakebites » Tue Nov 6, 2018 2:35 pm

DTP wrote:Bullock will snap out of his funk, he's too good of a shooter not to. And getting Luke back will help too....he just needs minutes.

Is he though? Could just be one outlier season.
JD43320
Veteran
Posts: 2,541
And1: 774
Joined: Jun 27, 2009

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#31 » by JD43320 » Tue Nov 6, 2018 3:32 pm

I blame his poor shooting this season on his hair. Seriously.
vic
Veteran
Posts: 2,570
And1: 1,044
Joined: Dec 27, 2012

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#32 » by vic » Tue Nov 6, 2018 3:55 pm

hair does matter... I wish Reggie & SJ would cut their hair.

but I'd rather just start GR3 for now
You need 2-way wings, 2-way shooting bigs, and you can't allow low iq players on the court. Assist/turnover ratio is crucial. Shooting point guards are icing on the cake IF they are plus defenders.
Weaver & Casey, govern yourselves accordingly!
vic
Veteran
Posts: 2,570
And1: 1,044
Joined: Dec 27, 2012

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#33 » by vic » Tue Nov 6, 2018 3:56 pm

Uncle Mxy wrote:
vic wrote:hate to bring it up again but if we had any gM other than SVG the last year or two, the lineup would be:

RJ
Donovan Mitchell
Stanley Johnson/Miles Bridges
Tobias Harris
Drummond

Our biggest convo would be when will Miles takoever for Stanley JOhnson on the starters

Our biggest concern would still be RJ getting hurt again.


Wouldn't be a concern because Donovan Mitchell is a combo that can play pg
You need 2-way wings, 2-way shooting bigs, and you can't allow low iq players on the court. Assist/turnover ratio is crucial. Shooting point guards are icing on the cake IF they are plus defenders.
Weaver & Casey, govern yourselves accordingly!
vic
Veteran
Posts: 2,570
And1: 1,044
Joined: Dec 27, 2012

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#34 » by vic » Tue Nov 6, 2018 3:58 pm

BDM22 wrote:
Uncle Mxy wrote:
vic wrote:hate to bring it up again but if we had any gM other than SVG the last year or two, the lineup would be:

RJ
Donovan Mitchell
Stanley Johnson/Miles Bridges
Tobias Harris
Drummond

Our biggest convo would be when will Miles takoever for Stanley JOhnson on the starters

Our biggest concern would still be RJ getting hurt again.


And are we gonna give Tobias the 140-180M he's looking for.


On a young winning team, with offensive firepower, and a couple good defenders? that's not a problem
You need 2-way wings, 2-way shooting bigs, and you can't allow low iq players on the court. Assist/turnover ratio is crucial. Shooting point guards are icing on the cake IF they are plus defenders.
Weaver & Casey, govern yourselves accordingly!
Invictus88
Analyst
Posts: 3,121
And1: 1,665
Joined: Jun 25, 2013

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#35 » by Invictus88 » Tue Nov 6, 2018 8:53 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
Kilo wrote:It doesn't matter what we might want. It's what Gores wants and he wants to win now. He traded for Blake Griffin to pay him $120M not to rebuild with him. He brought in COY Casey and paid him $7M a year on a five year contract not to tank over it and rebuild again to be competitive just as that gaudy contract is up. This is very likely Casey's last stop - he didn't sign on to rebuild. He was going to get paid to stay home for the season by Toronto and could have waited for a mid-season phone call or next off-season when 3-4-5 vacancies opened up.

This team isn't going to ride it out, let the bad contracts expire and then start a slow rebuild. Gores wants in the playoffs. Gores forced swapping out 8,000 lower bowl seats from red to black because he didn't like how the empty seats showed up on television.

I hope a few posters actually read that


The potential stupidity of Tom Gores doesn't in any way justify making poor personnel decisions; it just increases the likelihood of those poor decisions happening.

So if I state an opinion that the Pistons would be better off doing X and that happens to contradict what you think Gores will do; that doesn't in any way make my opinion any less valid.

Applying this logic to the trades for Butler or Bazemore or whatever: Sure, you can say "If I'm Tom Gores I'd think that I should trade half of the team and all of our picks for a bad contract; Because, being under the influence that I am, I think that will somehow make us a championship contender". That statement is likely to be correct.

But if you make the same statement "We should trade half of our team and all of our picks for a bad contract because that's best for the Pistons" then you'd be way off base.
User avatar
King Bugs
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,588
And1: 301
Joined: Oct 18, 2006
   

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#36 » by King Bugs » Tue Nov 6, 2018 9:48 pm

Snakebites wrote:
DTP wrote:Bullock will snap out of his funk, he's too good of a shooter not to. And getting Luke back will help too....he just needs minutes.

Is he though? Could just be one outlier season.


Yeah, Reggie Bullock was always a huge regression candidate. A guy who's offense consists of lots of long jumpshots having a field goal percentage that's 49% and shoots 45% from 3? That type of shooting is only sustainable if your name is Stephen Curry. All of that will be coming way down this season.

I don't think Bullock is as bad as he's been, but what he accomplished last season was a mirage. He won't be that good again.
User avatar
The Moose
General Manager
Posts: 9,115
And1: 5,094
Joined: Apr 18, 2012
Location: Australia
 

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#37 » by The Moose » Wed Nov 7, 2018 5:02 am

Watching this Duke game, I can see a few wings who could help a bit.

The new lottery odds actually make it a lot more fair for the bottom teams. I won't be too disappointed if we end up tanking somehow :lol:
Image
Canadafan
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,950
And1: 1,442
Joined: Nov 03, 2014
       

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#38 » by Canadafan » Wed Nov 7, 2018 6:25 am

The Moose wrote:Watching this Duke game, I can see a few wings who could help a bit.

The new lottery odds actually make it a lot more fair for the bottom teams. I won't be too disappointed if we end up tanking somehow :lol:


1 million percent not saying anything bad at you Moose, I'm just so disgusted at my team. That its only early November and we have to think about a draft in June. So frustrating this last decade has been.
This is the least excited I've been for my Pistons in my life. Makes me sick watching the amateur hour of Stanley and Drummond. How can two professionals be this lacking of skill?? Makes me sad seeing once again a less than 100% healthy RJ. Dude has skills. He just doesn't have the quickness anymore. And Blake is trying but just doesn't have the hops anymore. How depressing. Nobody else really worth mentioning really. Maybe Ish but hes just meh. Honestly we can't just go through yet another damn year and wait for our big contracts to disappear and hope for the best in the draft. We're pooched. Nobody is touching Leuer or Galloway or Reggie or Blake. Its either deal Drummond or deal our expirings of Ish+Bullock+Ellenson+SJ for a guy that makes $14million and expires when those first 3clowns expire. Or whatever let's just sit here and waste more of our life doing nothing
User avatar
The Moose
General Manager
Posts: 9,115
And1: 5,094
Joined: Apr 18, 2012
Location: Australia
 

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#39 » by The Moose » Wed Nov 7, 2018 10:30 am

Canadafan wrote:
The Moose wrote:Watching this Duke game, I can see a few wings who could help a bit.

The new lottery odds actually make it a lot more fair for the bottom teams. I won't be too disappointed if we end up tanking somehow :lol:


1 million percent not saying anything bad at you Moose, I'm just so disgusted at my team. That its only early November and we have to think about a draft in June. So frustrating this last decade has been.
This is the least excited I've been for my Pistons in my life. Makes me sick watching the amateur hour of Stanley and Drummond. How can two professionals be this lacking of skill?? Makes me sad seeing once again a less than 100% healthy RJ. Dude has skills. He just doesn't have the quickness anymore. And Blake is trying but just doesn't have the hops anymore. How depressing. Nobody else really worth mentioning really. Maybe Ish but hes just meh. Honestly we can't just go through yet another damn year and wait for our big contracts to disappear and hope for the best in the draft. We're pooched. Nobody is touching Leuer or Galloway or Reggie or Blake. Its either deal Drummond or deal our expirings of Ish+Bullock+Ellenson+SJ for a guy that makes $14million and expires when those first 3clowns expire. Or whatever let's just sit here and waste more of our life doing nothing


Yeah, this team/franchise makes it easy to become apathetic towards them, or perhaps its the decade long struggle that is just a slow burn.
I would much rather watch/emotionally invest in this team if they were developing with some young promising prospects, in a clear rebuilding phase and looking ahead at the upcoming draft of Zion etc.

Sure we wouldn't win as many games, but I would 100% be more interested. Guess a lot of the blame goes to a clueless owner who is inpatient
Image
Canadafan
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,950
And1: 1,442
Joined: Nov 03, 2014
       

Re: Our wings are horrible.... Seriously! 

Post#40 » by Canadafan » Wed Nov 7, 2018 2:14 pm

Lee will be evaluated again on Nov. 12 for his neck spasms, Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic reports.

Analysis:
Lee has yet to play this season and has told reporters that he continues to deal with spasms and whiplash in his neck. Hopefully next Monday's appointment will paint a better picture of the Lee's timetable for return. When Lee does return, there is a possibility he will be traded to a team that desires a three-and-D type player.


He makes $12.4. Is signed next year. We give expirings. Help out Knicks for their free agency push. They'd likely give us a draft pick as well.
Jose+Zaza+Ellenson+Ish=$12.7 just sayin
Gonna lose Ish anyways
Stanley J can go play the role of Ellenson and sit his useless butt on the bench or go to DLeague.
Bullock and Glen at SF
Lee and Luke at SG
RJ and LG at PG
Shooters!
Then everyone expires at same time summer 2020 except Luke Blake Andre
And if they'd really like some help we can toss in expirings of SJ and Bullock along with Leuer for THJr. Then they would have an additional amount of cap space and would only have to dump Leuer to gain more.
Luke and THJr with Blake and Dre would be our only players signed past 2020

Return to Detroit Pistons