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still a top pg in this league. can have a Blake-like revival in the D under coach Casey. contract aside, lets go after him. we're not the ones paying the luxury tax.

Reggie, Leuer, LG for Wall and Rivers (expiring)

or

Reggie, Leuer, LG, for Wall and Markieff (expiring)

Thats essentially like signing Wall to a 3 year/132 mil contract in the summer of 2020 after all those expirings.

DCintheD wrote:still a top pg in this league. can have a Blake-like revival in the D under coach Casey. contract aside, lets go after him. we're not the ones paying the luxury tax.

Reggie, Leuer, LG for Wall and Rivers (expiring)

or

Reggie, Leuer, LG, for Wall and Markieff (expiring)

Thats essentially like signing Wall to a 3 year/132 mil contract in the summer of 2020 after all those expirings.

When you say we're not the ones paying the luxury tax are you referring to the fans? Well the fans are not the ones signing off on trades either, it would be the guy paying the luxury tax.

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I'd want to have a long talk with Sidney Lowe before making the trade. He was in Washington as top assistant to Brooks the last two season before jumping here to join Casey's staff. My concern is off-court with Wall - his personality and temperament. Right now this is Griffin's team and lockerroom from what you can read between then lines in coverage. Blake is really dedicated off court and in the off-season on his health, well being and professionalism - Wall got really fat and was high as **** in his media day photo.

I'd do that trade 10x out of 10 with a motivated, dedicated John Wall as I think Wall, Griffin and Dre could make it work on court if they all wanted it to. I just worry that he would poison the lockerroom and continue to be less than his best possible self and we'd be paying him 40M+ a season with zero chance of getting out from under that.

Is he product of the Washington team environment or the driver of it?

Would rather not, I’m in the camp of a trade to add to Griffin and Dre but John Wall at that price just isn’t it.

MotownMadness wrote:Would rather not, I’m in the camp of a trade to add to Griffin and Dre but John Wall at that price just isn’t it.

By price you mean his contractual remainder? I think the reason folks support the trade is because of the price of not having to give up anything to get him. If you want to add via trade to Griffin and Dre it means you're going to have to trade something of value, by acquiring Wall you don't have to subtract from the team. Though it could be argued that we're subtracting whatever free agent(s) we could get NEXT off-season when we'll have enough money to go biggish game hunting in that market (assuming we play this off-season the same as the past and only add one-year deals).

Kilo wrote:

MotownMadness wrote:Would rather not, I’m in the camp of a trade to add to Griffin and Dre but John Wall at that price just isn’t it.

By price you mean his contractual remainder? I think the reason folks support the trade is because of the price of not having to give up anything to get him. If you want to add via trade to Griffin and Dre it means you're going to have to trade something of value, by acquiring Wall you don't have to subtract from the team. Though it could be argued that we're subtracting whatever free agent(s) we could get NEXT off-season when we'll have enough money to go biggish game hunting in that market (assuming we play this off-season the same as the past and only add one-year deals).

I just can’t do it, That’s just a absurd amount of money and it hasn’t even kicked in yet. I’m definitely questioning his attitude as well as he’s getting more immature with age it seems. If he doesn’t come in and everything doesn’t go perfect with him we would be handicapped on a scary level I’ve never seen before.

There's a reason we're seeing that nobody wants to trade for him.

John Wall makes more money than Blake Griffin for longer, and his big money doesn't kick in until next year, which creates serious salary issues for any team dealing for him.


He's a good player but the math associated with a move like that is just too daunting. I also don't think he fits well with Blake given how we're using him. We need a point guard who doesn't need the ball as much and can hit the 3-ball. John Wall has to be the focal point of an offense and that's just not the look the Pistons seem to be driving toward. If we could get Chauncey Billups 12-15 years ago that would be perfect. Unfortunately that's not what's on offer here.

I'm not saying Wall doesn't have his value as a player, but he's not worth the crazy price tag on any roster, and certainly not this one.

John Wall is so overrated. Ball dominate, inefficient, turnover prone, huge ego. Id try to get Porter over him

DCintheD wrote:still a top pg in this league. can have a Blake-like revival in the D under coach Casey. contract aside, lets go after him. we're not the ones paying the luxury tax.

Reggie, Leuer, LG for Wall and Rivers (expiring)

or

Reggie, Leuer, LG, for Wall and Markieff (expiring)

Thats essentially like signing Wall to a 3 year/132 mil contract in the summer of 2020 after all those expirings.

Can they also give us a First rounder? Then taking on that contract is more palatable.

"John Wall is a very different situation," said Wojnarowski. "You can count on one hand, and probably with just a couple of fingers places that really might have interest in taking his contract on and what it all means to bring him in.

We dont need to keep adding vets on supermaxes nobody ITL wants. Were not in the position of being a J.Wall away from winning a title.

We need to add young talent on rookie contracts. Every season theirs going to be players like Butler/Blake/Wall/Irving/Cousins/George etc available. We need to build the foundation through the draft then start looking at adding another teams max player to complete the puzzle. All these trades do is continue to make it harder to build the foundation through the draft that it takes to be a winning organization in todays nba.

No.

We need value contracts/players.

Wall is an injury prone headcase.

Get Wall!

If you can get him for cheap its tempting, but you also have to realize that down the road his contract will prevent us from ever being able to add FAs as long as Blake and Dre are also here.

19/20
Wall $38 million
Blake $35 million
Dre $27 million
Total $100 million (Expected Cap $109 million)

20/21
Wall $41 million
Blake $37 million
Dre $29 million
Total $107 million (Expected Cap $116 million)

That leaves no room to ever sign a FA and very little room under the tax for anything just after those 3 guys.

Likely means letting Bullock walk, missing out on good bargain salary type players that could contribute. You'll have to fill out roster spots with second rounders and vet minimum type guys.

bstein14 wrote:If you can get him for cheap its tempting, but you also have to realize that down the road his contract will prevent us from ever being able to add FAs as long as Blake and Dre are also here.

19/20
Wall $38 million
Blake $35 million
Dre $27 million
Total $100 million (Expected Cap $109 million)

20/21
Wall $41 million
Blake $37 million
Dre $29 million
Total $107 million (Expected Cap $116 million)

That leaves no room to ever sign a FA and very little room under the tax for anything just after those 3 guys.

Likely means letting Bullock walk, missing out on good bargain salary type players that could contribute. You'll have to fill out roster spots with second rounders and vet minimum type guys.

It simply means our team will make moves via trade

buzzkilloton wrote:We need to build the foundation through the draft then start looking at adding another teams max player to complete the puzzle. All these trades do is continue to make it harder to build the foundation through the draft that it takes to be a winning organization in todays nba.

with you 110% but the Blake trade tells me cokehead Gores is far from that method. I don't think anything will change with his approach anytime soon. Wall could be a steal if he re-invents himself like Blake did.

The reason I am more open to it is because I think any team with Reggie Jackson starting for it is going nowhere. So we're wasting this season and next season - wasting Griffin's prime and the beginning of Dre's prime. And then what - in the off-season when Jackson, Leuer and Galloway are off the books - do we sign then 35 yr old Kyle Lowry to be our PG?

Looking at the top 2020 UFA's (bigs excluded)-
Kyle Lowry
Jeff Teague
George Hill
Allen Crabbe
Kent Bazmore
Goran Dragic
Harrison Barnes
Danillo Gallinari
MKG

RFA class is damn good - but we'd have to overpay out the wazoo to poach one with an offer sheet -
Ben Simmons
Jaylen Brown
Kris Dunn
Buddy Hield
Jamal Murray
Dejounte Murray

Neptune wrote:

bstein14 wrote:If you can get him for cheap its tempting, but you also have to realize that down the road his contract will prevent us from ever being able to add FAs as long as Blake and Dre are also here.

19/20
Wall $38 million
Blake $35 million
Dre $27 million
Total $100 million (Expected Cap $109 million)

20/21
Wall $41 million
Blake $37 million
Dre $29 million
Total $107 million (Expected Cap $116 million)

That leaves no room to ever sign a FA and very little room under the tax for anything just after those 3 guys.

Likely means letting Bullock walk, missing out on good bargain salary type players that could contribute. You'll have to fill out roster spots with second rounders and vet minimum type guys.

It simply means our team will make moves via trade

We wouldn't have any contracts left to trade. Everyone left is on a cheap rookie deal or near minimum.

Assuming you trade Jackson + Leuer + Galloway to get Wall + Morris you'd only be left with these players next year.

Wall
Blake
Dre
Luke Kennard $3 million rookie deal
Brown $1.4 million rookie deal
Thomas $1.4 million rookie deal

Ellenson, Morris, Bullock, Stanley, Zaza, Ish Smith, Glen Robinson, Calderon are all FA's we wouldn't be able to resign at anything more than $2 or $3 million or vet minimum type deals.

bstein14 wrote:If you can get him for cheap its tempting, but you also have to realize that down the road his contract will prevent us from ever being able to add FAs as long as Blake and Dre are also here.

19/20
Wall $38 million
Blake $35 million
Dre $27 million
Total $100 million (Expected Cap $109 million)

20/21
Wall $41 million
Blake $37 million
Dre $29 million
Total $107 million (Expected Cap $116 million)

That leaves no room to ever sign a FA and very little room under the tax for anything just after those 3 guys.

Likely means letting Bullock walk, missing out on good bargain salary type players that could contribute. You'll have to fill out roster spots with second rounders and vet minimum type guys.

Tax is $132M next season - so we'd have 32M to spend on remaining 10 players, more if Gores would pay the tax for the next three years. Kennard, Brown, Thomas, 2019 FRP and 2019 SRP make a combined 8M and that is five more roster spots taken care of, and we're down to 24M on 5 more spots. A couple vets minimum types and we're at 21M for 3 players. Can we get three rotation players for $7M AAV each?

Robinson has a TO for 4.3M next season. He can take up one of the $7M AAV holds. So other two can get more money - could we get Johnson on 10M AAV? That would leave one remaining $7M spot.

Wall|6M Point guard|Brown
Kennard|Thomas|Vet Minimum SG
Robinson|2019 FRP(2/3 swingman)
Griffin|Johnson
Drummond|Vet Minimum Big|2019 SRP(4/5 type)

I think Ish Smith has been great for us off the bench, he's probalby going to get $8 to $9 million. Reggie Bullock, assuming he remains one of the best 3 point shooters in the NBA will also likely get $8 to $9 million. Both those guys are MLE type players... good rotation players to have in your top 7 or 8 guys. MLE is expected to be $9 million.

Don't want anything to do with his contract