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BadMofoPimp wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:

A_dub06 wrote:
Why can’t Detroit achieve what Philly did? They made numerous mistakes in their tanking and rebuilding phase and yet they are objectively a top 2 team in the east and you could easily make the argument as the top. I understand the draft lottery has changed that would make their strategy appear extreme but the logic and calculated risks of taking on young players with upside and as many picks as possible is a model I think we should be following.

I find it funny that discussions currently and for the past few years seem to end with team rebuild vs team win-now, and what we’ve done for the last 10+ year is try to win now and it’s gotten us to 8 seed playoff showing and nothing else.

I disagree with the idea we've been trying to win now the last 10 years.

I'd argue we've tried to retool/rebuild on the fly while remaining competitive. All that's done is put us in no man's land.


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It has worked for the best 2 teams in the East aka Bucks and Raptors. Tanking fails more often than succeeds.

The Raps had a combo of near All Star level dudes though (Lowry & DeRozan) that they added to.

Bucks got lucky with Giannis & Middleton.

We haven't been close to having a combo on that level over the last 5+ years.

The best thing that we've done the last 2 years is not attempted to win now! Cap sheet will soon be clear and then we'll see what happens.

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Any path to a championship takes luck. But the more opportunities you have, the more chances you have for luck.

High picks and salary flexibility are what generates opportunities.

You can say the Sixers, for instance, “got lucky” with Embiid and Simmons, but what they really did was give themselves opportunities for luck.

Pharaoh wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:I disagree with the idea we've been trying to win now the last 10 years.

I'd argue we've tried to retool/rebuild on the fly while remaining competitive. All that's done is put us in no man's land.


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It has worked for the best 2 teams in the East aka Bucks and Raptors. Tanking fails more often than succeeds.

The Raps had a combo of near All Star level dudes though (Lowry & DeRozan) that they added to.

Bucks got lucky with Giannis & Middleton.

We haven't been close to having a combo on that level over the last 5+ years.

The best thing that we've done the last 2 years is not attempted to win now! Cap sheet will soon be clear and then we'll see what happens.

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I knew Middleton was good Dumars did not no luck there just common sense.

Pharaoh wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:I disagree with the idea we've been trying to win now the last 10 years.

I'd argue we've tried to retool/rebuild on the fly while remaining competitive. All that's done is put us in no man's land.


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It has worked for the best 2 teams in the East aka Bucks and Raptors. Tanking fails more often than succeeds.

The Raps had a combo of near All Star level dudes though (Lowry & DeRozan) that they added to.

Bucks got lucky with Giannis & Middleton.

We haven't been close to having a combo on that level over the last 5+ years.

The best thing that we've done the last 2 years is not attempted to win now! Cap sheet will soon be clear and then we'll see what happens.

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The raps had built a good team for years before making that trade. 48,49,56,51,59 wins. Before that run they were a bad team that was winning 22,23, and34 games.

DDR and Jonas were key pieces to them winning and they were both lotto picks. They then used both DDR/Jonas to get Gasol and Leonard. Siakam and FVF were gems in the draft.

Sure we could replicate the bucks. Give us a MVP in the draft and we can try to become them. Problem is historically its proven that MVPS get drafted in the first couple picks more then anywhere else. Its hard to find them later it happens but on average the best players come from the best picks in the NBA.

If we were a free agent destination we could replicate the lakers/heat/clippers but this being Detroit were not. It makes sense for us to rebuild through the draft warriors style to get good.

buzzkilloton wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:
It has worked for the best 2 teams in the East aka Bucks and Raptors. Tanking fails more often than succeeds.

The Raps had a combo of near All Star level dudes though (Lowry & DeRozan) that they added to.

Bucks got lucky with Giannis & Middleton.

We haven't been close to having a combo on that level over the last 5+ years.

The best thing that we've done the last 2 years is not attempted to win now! Cap sheet will soon be clear and then we'll see what happens.

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The raps had built a good team for years before making that trade. 48,49,56,51,59 wins. Before that run they were a bad team that was winning 22,23, and34 games.

DDR and Jonas were key pieces to them winning and they were both lotto picks. They then used both DDR/Jonas to get Gasol and Leonard. Siakam and FVF were gems in the draft.

Sure we could replicate the bucks. Give us a MVP in the draft and we can try to become them. Problem is historically its proven that MVPS get drafted in the first couple picks more then anywhere else. Its hard to find them later it happens but on average the best players come from the best picks in the NBA.

If we were a free agent destination we could replicate the lakers/heat/clippers but this being Detroit were not. It makes sense for us to rebuild through the draft warriors style to get good.

I've been for the "build through the draft" model for years so you're preaching to the choir there.

As it becomes apparent that your good players simply aren't good enough you move them for youth, picks & short as contracts.

Good vets that can teach kids professionalism are easy to find (dudes like Butler, Tolliver, that kinda guy).

As a non free agent city it's in our best interests to acquire additional picks, invest in scouting and development staff, especially given the fact that generally if you hit on a pick you've got 7 years to build with them

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I really think we're now done with our offseason. However I expect us to be really active at trade deadline. Below is my dream scenario.

1. Trade Drummond and Thomas for Russell and Cauley-Stein
> Salaries are matching. Helps us getting our new starting PG plus a serviceable C. Gives Warriors a more balanced team after Klay's return.

2. Trade Jackson, Galloway, Kennard, 2020 FRP, 2021 SRP and 2022 FRP for Beal
> Salaries are quite equal. Gives us a true second star to go with Griffin. Expirings, a young player with potential and picks should be a package Wizards will look for.

Updated lineup would be:
C/CAULEY-STEIN/Morris/Maker
PF/GRIFFIN/Morris/Wood
SF/SNELL/Doumbouya/Mykhailiuk
SG/BEAL/Brown/Mykhailiuk
PG/RUSSELL/Rose/Frazier

ducler wrote:I really think we're now done with our offseason. However I expect us to be really active at trade deadline. Below is my dream scenario.

1. Trade Drummond and Thomas for Russell and Cauley-Stein
> Salaries are matching. Helps us getting our new starting PG plus a serviceable C. Gives Warriors a more balanced team after Klay's return.

2. Trade Jackson, Galloway, Kennard, 2020 FRP, 2021 SRP and 2022 FRP for Beal
> Salaries are quite equal. Gives us a true second star to go with Griffin. Expirings, a young player with potential and picks should be a package Wizards will look for.

Updated lineup would be:
C/CAULEY-STEIN/Morris/Maker
PF/GRIFFIN/Morris/Wood
SF/SNELL/Doumbouya/Mykhailiuk
SG/BEAL/Brown/Mykhailiuk
PG/RUSSELL/Rose/Frazier

Would love both trades but I dont see it likely. Warriors dont get much better if not get worse. Mcauley Stein I'd be happy instead of dre pretty much lol and dlo just gives us the advantage big time.
Beal I'd love but I'm sure other teams could outbid us

I really really really really want to deal both RJ and Dre. Because of their lackadaisical attitudes but even more importantly they're both in final years of their deals. (If dre opts out). So I want to cash them in for something.

ducler wrote:I really think we're now done with our offseason. However I expect us to be really active at trade deadline. Below is my dream scenario.

1. Trade Drummond and Thomas for Russell and Cauley-Stein
> Salaries are matching. Helps us getting our new starting PG plus a serviceable C. Gives Warriors a more balanced team after Klay's return.

2. Trade Jackson, Galloway, Kennard, 2020 FRP, 2021 SRP and 2022 FRP for Beal
> Salaries are quite equal. Gives us a true second star to go with Griffin. Expirings, a young player with potential and picks should be a package Wizards will look for.

Updated lineup would be:
C/CAULEY-STEIN/Morris/Maker
PF/GRIFFIN/Morris/Wood
SF/SNELL/Doumbouya/Mykhailiuk
SG/BEAL/Brown/Mykhailiuk
PG/RUSSELL/Rose/Frazier

Not enough value in either of those trades

I think Drummond to Boston might make sense at some point, especially if they come to the conclusion Hayward isn't in their future plans.

Drwho17 wrote:I think Drummond to Boston might make sense at some point, especially if they come to the conclusion Hayward isn't in their future plans.

If they come out swinging with Kemba, a newly invigorated Tatum and Brown, I could see them making a play for Blake Griffin instead of Drummond actually. Ainge has wanted BG back in 2016. Maybe Griffin is plan B since he struck out on Davis?

detroitKG wrote:

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I think this just gets them into camp and then allows us to send them as affiliate players to Grand Rapids Drive. They could be poached on NBA contracts, two way contracts at any time and then 10-day contracts starting in January some time.

They get the extra cheddar from this deal and then sign a regulation G-League contract. I'm not sure if these deals count against our cap - probably. We're around 300K under the tax, so can only spend that on these camp/tryout deals anyways. Each team is allowed two affiliate players - players who were in your fall training camp but didn't make your team.

Bone and King on two-way deals, Withers and Hall as affiliate players. Maybe some Sekou for some PT run, or Svi but I assume he gets back-up SF minutes. Could also see Wood down there as well.

Drummond for Dieng+Covington(and a pick)
RJ+LG for Fournier+Augustin(and a pick?)

Let's move on already from these two guys. Theyre both on expirings(If and when Dre opts out).
Get a pistons DNA type guy in Covington(3+D) that's locked up for 3years. Get a shooter in Fournier that's locked up for two years.
Minny pairs Dre with Towns and Wiggins for this year and then end of year they get the chance to add a likely max player to those two guys. Dre can leave or resign I dunno.
Orlando clears cap for next summer.

Starters-Markieff Blake Covington Fournier Rose
Bench-Dieng/Wood/Thon Snell Luke Frasier Brown

Canadafan wrote:Drummond for Dieng+Covington(and a pick)
RJ+LG for Fournier+Augustin(and a pick?)

Let's move on already from these two guys. Theyre both on expirings(If and when Dre opts out).
Get a pistons DNA type guy in Covington(3+D) that's locked up for 3years. Get a shooter in Fournier that's locked up for two years.
Minny pairs Dre with Towns and Wiggins for this year and then end of year they get the chance to add a likely max player to those two guys. Dre can leave or resign I dunno.
Orlando clears cap for next summer.

Starters-Markieff Blake Covington Fournier Rose
Bench-Dieng/Wood/Thon Snell Luke Frasier Brown

Surely Dieng would start at C instead of Kieff?

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Pharaoh wrote:

Canadafan wrote:Drummond for Dieng+Covington(and a pick)
RJ+LG for Fournier+Augustin(and a pick?)

Let's move on already from these two guys. Theyre both on expirings(If and when Dre opts out).
Get a pistons DNA type guy in Covington(3+D) that's locked up for 3years. Get a shooter in Fournier that's locked up for two years.
Minny pairs Dre with Towns and Wiggins for this year and then end of year they get the chance to add a likely max player to those two guys. Dre can leave or resign I dunno.
Orlando clears cap for next summer.

Starters-Markieff Blake Covington Fournier Rose
Bench-Dieng/Wood/Thon Snell Luke Frasier Brown

Surely Dieng would start at C instead of Kieff?

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I guess but hes pretty bad.
I think Blake and Kieff would play well together

Do you guys think that Sirvydis might get stashed for a year?

GimmeDat wrote:Do you guys think that Sirvydis might get stashed for a year?

Last I head he might be getting stashed in the Dleague this season

GimmeDat wrote:Do you guys think that Sirvydis might get stashed for a year?

That was always the plan. It's the reason why Detroit traded out of the first round - because of guaranteed contracts if he forced the issue to sign. He seems to want to come over, but Detroit has 15 rostered players and already signed away both 2-way contracts to Jordan Bone and Louis King.

Only lock on 2 way is Bone imo.

Looks to me its Withers vs King for the final 2 way and Hall vs Wood for the final roster spot.

Unless something better presents itself of course.

LaSheed wrote:Only lock on 2 way is Bone imo.

Looks to me its Withers vs King for the final 2 way and Hall vs Wood for the final roster spot.

Unless something better presents itself of course.

We claimed Wood off waivers though. Doesn't he already have a deal?

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