If We Must Compete... let’s do w/o the dbags

[DCintheD]

I want to rebuild as badly as anyone on here but the unfortunate reality is that we’re stuck with a delusional owner that believes Blake is all it takes to win a championship. As a piston fan for 30 years I can’t stand what this franchise has become. I also can’t stand what the NBA has become but that’s a different story.

I absolutely hate that Andre Drummond is looked at as a franchise player. If he had Ben’s heart, work ethic, and humility he could be. But he’s not Ben and never will be. His production is great from time to time but as long as he’s here he will continue to be treated like a franchise player, which will continue to have a poor effect on the team’s culture.

Next, Reggie. This is a franchise that will always be proud of Isiah and Chauncey. With all due respect, Reggie doesn’t have a single trait of their character, nor will he ever. He’s not a leader. The sooner we move on from him the better. I don’t care that he’s coming off an injury-free season where he had solid production. He’s not part of the future and his presence, like Andre’s, is detrimental to the team’s culture. He plays a position that needs a natural leader and he’s not one.

If we absolutely must try to compete while Blake is here, we need to become watchable at the very least. We need to move on from these two. The culture needs to be revived and as long as they’re here, that won’t happen.

The first trade I’d do is for Conley. Before the hate please hear me out. Conley is a franchise player. He’s a class act. A Chauncey. Very rare in today’s era. Yes, he’s injury prone but he’s healthy now and there’s not a better upgrade that can happen so instantly. His impact would go beyond his play on the court regardless of what happens to him. He’s the leader this franchise is missing and would be a perfect mentor to whoever our PGOTF will be. Most importantly, he will have a profound impact on bringing the right culture back.

I dont want to include our pick in the deal, but if we must include Luke I think it would be foolish for that to stop us. Luke is solid but his impact won’t be anything near Conley’s. He’s not a franchise player. Plus we have Brown, Khyri, Svi, and 15 (which should most likely be a SG) who all play his position, and have 2-way potential. We just need one of those guys to develop into a starter and another as a solid rotation player.

Next, trade Drummond and LG for Hayward.
Boston is paying Hayward more than Drummond to come off their bench. He’s shown to stunt Jaylen Brown’s development. Convince them to take Drummond and bring him off their bench. They’re gonna need to pay Baynes anyways. Hayward’s got as many years left as Drummond so this doesn’t affect our cap. Plus he’s shown flashes of his old self and it’s not like we have anyone waiting in the wings. Hayward can do better here than in Boston. This trade most likely won’t happen but one can hope.

Sign a serviceable big, a backup pg, and a cheap sf.

Conley, FA
Brown, Khyri, Svi, 15
Hayward, FA, 15
Blake, Thon
FA, Thon

Focus on developing Brown, Khyri, Svi, 15, and possibly Thon.

We’re not going to win a championship but we become watchable. Plus we don’t sacrifice our future other than delaying cap space for a year - worth it for what we’d be getting in Conley.
If Gores wants to compete now, do it without the dbags that make us hate watching pistons basketball.

[Canadafan]

I agree we could live without andre and Reggie. I'd prefer to hold onto andre though instead of getting Hayward. Drummond is still young and with a competent PG(Conley) he will only improve more.
With a premium on 3pt shooting we need to keep Luke. Conley for our expirings and a future pick is all I'd be willing to do. Multiple 2nds even better than giving up a 1st.
Conley Ish
Luke Brown
MLE #15
Blake Thon
Andre BAE

This is likely what Gores and Stefanski will roll with next year. I'm content for now competing for home court in 1st rd(4th seed).

Conley expires same time as Andre in 2021. Next year at this time the two of them are expiring so if we felt the urge we could deal them for assets at that time.

[MotownMadness]

Jackson, Leuer and Galloway for CP3. Get Morey out of that contract and we can become the crappier version of the Clippers of the East.

[The_Irony]

Reggie Drummond
for
Conley Jonas

[A_dub06]

I want to rebuild as badly as anyone on here but the unfortunate reality is that we’re stuck with a delusional owner that believes Blake is all it takes to win a championship. As a piston fan for 30 years I can’t stand what this franchise has become. I also can’t stand what the NBA has become but that’s a different story.

I absolutely hate that Andre Drummond is looked at as a franchise player. If he had Ben’s heart, work ethic, and humility he could be. But he’s not Ben and never will be. His production is great from time to time but as long as he’s here he will continue to be treated like a franchise player, which will continue to have a poor effect on the team’s culture.

Next, Reggie. This is a franchise that will always be proud of Isiah and Chauncey. With all due respect, Reggie doesn’t have a single trait of their character, nor will he ever. He’s not a leader. The sooner we move on from him the better. I don’t care that he’s coming off an injury-free season where he had solid production. He’s not part of the future and his presence, like Andre’s, is detrimental to the team’s culture. He plays a position that needs a natural leader and he’s not one.

If we absolutely must try to compete while Blake is here, we need to become watchable at the very least. We need to move on from these two. The culture needs to be revived and as long as they’re here, that won’t happen.

The first trade I’d do is for Conley. Before the hate please hear me out. Conley is a franchise player. He’s a class act. A Chauncey. Very rare in today’s era. Yes, he’s injury prone but he’s healthy now and there’s not a better upgrade that can happen so instantly. His impact would go beyond his play on the court regardless of what happens to him. He’s the leader this franchise is missing and would be a perfect mentor to whoever our PGOTF will be. Most importantly, he will have a profound impact on bringing the right culture back.

I dont want to include our pick in the deal, but if we must include Luke I think it would be foolish for that to stop us. Luke is solid but his impact won’t be anything near Conley’s. He’s not a franchise player. Plus we have Brown, Khyri, Svi, and 15 (which should most likely be a SG) who all play his position, and have 2-way potential. We just need one of those guys to develop into a starter and another as a solid rotation player.

Next, trade Drummond and LG for Hayward.
Boston is paying Hayward more than Drummond to come off their bench. He’s shown to stunt Jaylen Brown’s development. Convince them to take Drummond and bring him off their bench. They’re gonna need to pay Baynes anyways. Hayward’s got as many years left as Drummond so this doesn’t affect our cap. Plus he’s shown flashes of his old self and it’s not like we have anyone waiting in the wings. Hayward can do better here than in Boston. This trade most likely won’t happen but one can hope.

Sign a serviceable big, a backup pg, and a cheap sf.

Conley, FA
Brown, Khyri, Svi, 15
Hayward, FA, 15
Blake, Thon
FA, Thon

Focus on developing Brown, Khyri, Svi, 15, and possibly Thon.

We’re not going to win a championship but we become watchable. Plus we don’t sacrifice our future other than delaying cap space for a year - worth it for what we’d be getting in Conley.
If Gores wants to compete now, do it without the dbags that make us hate watching pistons basketball.

I’ve stated my belief that getting Conley is the complete wrong move enough but to entertain what you’re saying, I highly doubt Memphis would want expiring deals straight up even that plus Kennard for him, there would be better deals that fit what they are trying to do available than that. We would need to include picks, and that should be a no go.

[DCintheD]

Jackson, Leuer and Galloway for CP3. Get Morey out of that contract and we can become the crappier version of the Clippers of the East.

those talks would need to start with a decade of 1st rd picks

[MotownMadness]

Jackson, Leuer and Galloway for CP3. Get Morey out of that contract and we can become the crappier version of the Clippers of the East.

those talks would need to start with a decade of 1st rd picks

Yeah that’s a ugly contract at that age

[theBigLip]

Jackson, Leuer and Galloway for CP3. Get Morey out of that contract and we can become the crappier version of the Clippers of the East.

those talks would need to start with a decade of 1st rd picks

I don't think it would take as much as you think. CP3 is getting old and his contract is huge (3 more years, $120M). You don't think Morey would like to swap that out and get multiple players that can help Harden win a Championship?

[DCintheD]

Jackson, Leuer and Galloway for CP3. Get Morey out of that contract and we can become the crappier version of the Clippers of the East.

those talks would need to start with a decade of 1st rd picks

I don't think it would take as much as you think. CP3 is getting old and his contract is huge (3 more years, $120M). You don't think Morey would like to swap that out and get multiple players that can help Harden win a Championship?

I meant that the picks would need to be attached to CP.. nobody’s touching that contract

[theBigLip]

those talks would need to start with a decade of 1st rd picks

I don't think it would take as much as you think. CP3 is getting old and his contract is huge (3 more years, $120M). You don't think Morey would like to swap that out and get multiple players that can help Harden win a Championship?

I meant that the picks would need to be attached to CP.. nobody’s touching that contract

Ah. Makes much more sense now Totally agree. Even though CP3 earned his money this year, he's going downhill and the contract is getting more expensive.

[tradez401]

Jackson, Leuer and Galloway for CP3. Get Morey out of that contract and we can become the crappier version of the Clippers of the East.

didnt cp3 and blake had issues on the clips?

[Manocad]

Ah yes...more of the "Hey, this isn't what I want, but if the Pistons are going to try to win now I hope they go with this completely thought out to the most minute detail scenario even though it isn't what I want at all" topics.

Just own it, dude. You're in the "win now" camp; we get it.

[DCintheD]

Ah yes...more of the "Hey, this isn't what I want, but if the Pistons are going to try to win now I hope they go with this completely thought out to the most minute detail scenario even though it isn't what I want at all" topics.

Just own it, dude. You're in the "win now" camp; we get it.

Because of the reality of the situation, yes, this is what I want. I didn’t sugar coat anything.
Did you forget this is only a forum and none of us are actually making decisions on this team? We’re stuck with what we’ve got so this is my scenario where we at least become watchable again.

If you start a movement to overthrow Gores and his “win-now” approach I’ll be in the front line.

[the_l_train]

Ah yes...more of the "Hey, this isn't what I want, but if the Pistons are going to try to win now I hope they go with this completely thought out to the most minute detail scenario even though it isn't what I want at all" topics.

Just own it, dude. You're in the "win now" camp; we get it.

Because of the reality of the situation, yes, this is what I want. I didn’t sugar coat anything.
Did you forget this is only a forum and none of us are actually making decisions on this team? We’re stuck with what we’ve got so this is my scenario where we at least become watchable again.

If you start a movement to overthrow Gores and his “win-now” approach I’ll be in the front line.

Ah yes, the old "Stop hiding behind Tom Gores and throwing out ideas that involve a potential improvement because that would mean a treadmill team so I'm going to be salty and cry about it AGAIN" response. Can't wait to see what Manocad has to say to the next "Hey maybe we should go after this guy" topic....

Nobody is saying "this isn't what I want". There is a camp in between the "Blow it up" camp and the "win-now" camp. It's called the "Please give us a watchable product" camp, and I'm over here roasting marshmallows.

Making moves towards improvement does not always equal a treadmill, believe it or not. Just another poor soul trying to come up with moves that could realistically happen, just to get sh*t on by Mr. Broken Record himself.

[Manocad]

Ah yes...more of the "Hey, this isn't what I want, but if the Pistons are going to try to win now I hope they go with this completely thought out to the most minute detail scenario even though it isn't what I want at all" topics.

Just own it, dude. You're in the "win now" camp; we get it.

Because of the reality of the situation, yes, this is what I want. I didn’t sugar coat anything.
Did you forget this is only a forum and none of us are actually making decisions on this team? We’re stuck with what we’ve got so this is my scenario where we at least become watchable again.

If you start a movement to overthrow Gores and his “win-now” approach I’ll be in the front line.

Of course I haven't forgotten it's a forum; I'm one of the first people to remind others that it IS only a forum and no one posting here has any influence on what the team does. But when people lay out these elaborate scenarios with the caveat of "Well, it's not what I want but if we're not going to rebuild I hope they do this" it's like they're trying to avoid criticism. Which leads back to my point--it's only forum, but the fact that it's a forum means you should expect ideas to be evaluated/criticized by others; that's the whole point of the forum.

That being said, being "more watchable" in the short term is the recipe for the treadmill; that's exactly what we've been getting. Because "more watchable" basically equates to being better/winning more. And in my opinion, that's exactly what's preventing this team from having the assets to become REALLY watchable, i.e. a championship contender.

I get that some people would rather the team be "sorta good" all the time and just hope that maybe lightning gets caught in a bottle and a championship happens to pop up somewhere. I'm just not that way because I want real championship contention. I'd rather the team suffer through the bad years required to build a true championship contender.

[Manocad]

Ah yes...more of the "Hey, this isn't what I want, but if the Pistons are going to try to win now I hope they go with this completely thought out to the most minute detail scenario even though it isn't what I want at all" topics.

Just own it, dude. You're in the "win now" camp; we get it.

Because of the reality of the situation, yes, this is what I want. I didn’t sugar coat anything.
Did you forget this is only a forum and none of us are actually making decisions on this team? We’re stuck with what we’ve got so this is my scenario where we at least become watchable again.

If you start a movement to overthrow Gores and his “win-now” approach I’ll be in the front line.

Ah yes, the old "Stop hiding behind Tom Gores and throwing out ideas that involve a potential improvement because that would mean a treadmill team so I'm going to be salty and cry about it AGAIN" response. Can't wait to see what Manocad has to say to the next "Hey maybe we should go after this guy" topic....

Nobody is saying "this isn't what I want". There is a camp in between the "Blow it up" camp and the "win-now" camp. It's called the "Please give us a watchable product" camp, and I'm over here roasting marshmallows.

Making moves towards improvement does not always equal a treadmill, believe it or not. Just another poor soul trying to come up with moves that could realistically happen, just to get sh*t on by Mr. Broken Record himself.

Yet the continual "let's get this retread player because he's better than what we have right now" doesn't sound like a broken record.

"Please give us a more watchable product" equals perennial 7-8 seed. If that's what you want, fine. I don't. It's funny how you accuse me of being salty yet you're the one who comes off like a cheerleader who got her boobs grabbed by a stranger. Lighten up, Francis. It's safe here.

[the_l_train]

"Please give us a more watchable product" equals perennial 7-8 seed. If that's what you want, fine. I don't. It's funny how you accuse me of being salty yet you're the one who comes off like a cheerleader who got her boobs grabbed by a stranger. Lighten up, Francis. It's safe here.

Pot calling the kettle black. I'm just trying to fight sodium with sodium. Touch my boobs all you want, stranger.

[Manocad]

Pot calling the kettle black. I'm just trying to fight sodium with sodium. Touch my boobs all you want, stranger.

The difference is that I address and/or criticize the ideas or logic presented in posts and you criticize me as poster because I address and/or criticize the ideas or logic presented in posts. Of course I'm going to respond the same way over and over to posts that present the same idea over and over. If you ask me what 2+2 is a thousand times I'm going to answer with 4 a thousand times. I'm not sure why that's such a problem for you but I suggest you get used to it.

[DCintheD]

Of course I haven't forgotten it's a forum; I'm one of the first people to remind others that it IS only a forum and no one posting here has any influence on what the team does. But when people lay out these elaborate scenarios with the caveat of "Well, it's not what I want but if we're not going to rebuild I hope they do this" it's like they're trying to avoid criticism. Which leads back to my point--it's only forum, but the fact that it's a forum means you should expect ideas to be evaluated/criticized by others; that's the whole point of the forum.

That being said, being "more watchable" in the short term is the recipe for the treadmill; that's exactly what we've been getting. Because "more watchable" basically equates to being better/winning more. And in my opinion, that's exactly what's preventing this team from having the assets to become REALLY watchable, i.e. a championship contender.

I get that some people would rather the team be "sorta good" all the time and just hope that maybe lightning gets caught in a bottle and a championship happens to pop up somewhere. I'm just not that way because I want real championship contention. I'd rather the team suffer through the bad years required to build a true championship contender.

^ evaluation and criticism that I respect and somewhat agree with.

Ah yes...more of the "Hey, this isn't what I want, but if the Pistons are going to try to win now I hope they go with this completely thought out to the most minute detail scenario even though it isn't what I want at all" topics.

Just own it, dude. You're in the "win now" camp; we get it.

^ you just making assumptions and kinda being a d*ck, making me not want to take you serious.

see the difference?

[Manocad]

Of course I haven't forgotten it's a forum; I'm one of the first people to remind others that it IS only a forum and no one posting here has any influence on what the team does. But when people lay out these elaborate scenarios with the caveat of "Well, it's not what I want but if we're not going to rebuild I hope they do this" it's like they're trying to avoid criticism. Which leads back to my point--it's only forum, but the fact that it's a forum means you should expect ideas to be evaluated/criticized by others; that's the whole point of the forum.

That being said, being "more watchable" in the short term is the recipe for the treadmill; that's exactly what we've been getting. Because "more watchable" basically equates to being better/winning more. And in my opinion, that's exactly what's preventing this team from having the assets to become REALLY watchable, i.e. a championship contender.

I get that some people would rather the team be "sorta good" all the time and just hope that maybe lightning gets caught in a bottle and a championship happens to pop up somewhere. I'm just not that way because I want real championship contention. I'd rather the team suffer through the bad years required to build a true championship contender.

^ evaluation and criticism that I respect and somewhat agree with.

Ah yes...more of the "Hey, this isn't what I want, but if the Pistons are going to try to win now I hope they go with this completely thought out to the most minute detail scenario even though it isn't what I want at all" topics.

Just own it, dude. You're in the "win now" camp; we get it.

^ you just making assumptions and kinda being a d*ck, making me not want to take you serious.

see the difference?

Of course. But like I said, you can’t expect to post an idea in a discussion forum under the caveat of “It’s not what I want” in order to avoid criticism.