Pistons Trading for Tony Snell

[theBigLip]

Looking at the last 11 years, the people that fit into that category have been right WAY more than they've been wrong. Maybe it's time to put some respect on their basketball knowledge and stop trying to vilify the Piston fans that aren't blind homers since they seem to be the only ones that know what they're talking about.

I don't think we can generalize about who has been right all the time. I personally don't mind negative opinions, it actually creates a discussion which is the purpose of the board. I do have less respect for those that are negative and can't come up with an original idea of their own, especially one that is realistic.

The worst is the rise in some users where they only go after people who are critical of the team while never clarifying what their stances are in their argument. In fact these guys don't even have an argument, they just point it out to criticize the criticism. It's toxic.

Thank God most people on here have original ideas and or a stance where they stand on, you can't argue with people who don't and just exist to criticize critical opinions.

If that is directed at me you have to realize that I am also a Mod and try to make this a reasonable place to go to discuss the Pistons. And having posters that just **** on everything without an original thought isn't pleasant for anyone.

[Canadafan]

Soooooo......in all seriousness.....what did we end up getting for Jon Leuer? Cause that was some crazy movement on draft night lmao
Tony Snell and....?

[thesack12]

Soooooo......in all seriousness.....what did we end up getting for Jon Leuer? Cause that was some crazy movement on draft night lmao
Tony Snell and....?

Jon Leuer ($9.5 mil expiring) + #45
for
Tony Snell (owed $11.4 mil this season, $12.2 mil next season) + Deividas Sirvydis (who might stay overseas) + Jordan Bone (who Detroit signed to a 2 way contract) + Portland's 2nd in 2023.

A lot of people think Detroit just gave up the carcass of Jon Leuer, but in reality they sacrificed $2 mil of cap flexibility this summer (which is critical to the luxury tax concerns), sacrificed $12 mil of what would have been cap space next summer, plus their own 2nd this season.

Its a ridiculous poo poo platter of a "haul."

[MotownMadness]

Hopefully he has a good year and opts out. I would say that’s crazy but seeing the type of players that are opting out this summer in a loaded FA class has me wondering. Next year he would actually have takers to give him a longer contract

[thesack12]

Hopefully he has a good year and opts out. I would say that’s crazy but seeing the type of players that are opting out this summer in a loaded FA class has me wondering. Next year he would actually have takers to give him a longer contract

Players are opting out because there is so much available money. I believe 14 teams have cap space this summer.

There won't be as much money to toss around to free agents next summer. Snell isn't a full MLE caliber player. He's should be in that GR3 type contract tier. If he leaves $12.2 mil on the table next summer, its likely going to take him 2 seasons to recoup that on his next contract and maybe even 3.

That said if he does opt out it would definitely change the shape of the trade, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[MotownMadness]

Hopefully he has a good year and opts out. I would say that’s crazy but seeing the type of players that are opting out this summer in a loaded FA class has me wondering. Next year he would actually have takers to give him a longer contract

Players are opting out because there is so much available money. I believe 14 teams have cap space this summer.

There won't be as much money to toss around to free agents next summer. Snell isn't a full MLE caliber player. He's should be in that GR3 type contract tier. If he leaves $12.2 mil on the table next summer, its likely going to take him 2 seasons to recoup that on his next contract and maybe even 3.

That said if he does opt out it would definitely change the shape of the trade, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Need to see his stats after the year. He’s still has a high TS% as a wing and was able to get Milwaukee to lock him up on that contract last time so we’ll see.

[thesack12]

Hopefully he has a good year and opts out. I would say that’s crazy but seeing the type of players that are opting out this summer in a loaded FA class has me wondering. Next year he would actually have takers to give him a longer contract

Players are opting out because there is so much available money. I believe 14 teams have cap space this summer.

There won't be as much money to toss around to free agents next summer. Snell isn't a full MLE caliber player. He's should be in that GR3 type contract tier. If he leaves $12.2 mil on the table next summer, its likely going to take him 2 seasons to recoup that on his next contract and maybe even 3.

That said if he does opt out it would definitely change the shape of the trade, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Need to see his stats after the year. He’s still has a high TS% as a wing and was able to get Milwaukee to lock him up on that contract last time so we’ll see.

Snell has a career average of only 5.4 field goal attempts and .6 free throw attempts per game, so I'm not going to put too much stock into his TS%.

He has a career 6.0 offensive win shares and 7.5 defensive win shares
A career -1.1 offensive and -0.8 defensive box plus/minus
Holds a career .3 value over replacement player

People are over-rating Snell. He's only going to start in Detroit because they arguably have the worst collection of wings in the entire league.

Again all that said, I'd love to see him opt out.

[MotownMadness]

Players are opting out because there is so much available money. I believe 14 teams have cap space this summer.

There won't be as much money to toss around to free agents next summer. Snell isn't a full MLE caliber player. He's should be in that GR3 type contract tier. If he leaves $12.2 mil on the table next summer, its likely going to take him 2 seasons to recoup that on his next contract and maybe even 3.

That said if he does opt out it would definitely change the shape of the trade, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Need to see his stats after the year. He’s still has a high TS% as a wing and was able to get Milwaukee to lock him up on that contract last time so we’ll see.

Snell has a career average of only 5.4 field goal attempts and .6 free throw attempts per game, so I'm not going to put too much stock into his TS%.

He has a career 6.0 offensive win shares and 7.5 defensive win shares
A career -1.1 offensive and -0.8 defensive box plus/minus
Holds a career .3 value over replacement player

People are over-rating Snell. He's only going to start in Detroit because they arguably have the worst collection of wings in the entire league.

Again all that said, I'd love to see him opt out.

I’m not overrating **** and clearly remember telling Bucks fans that was dumb when they signed him. I’m just saying I’m hoping he has a good year and opts out to try and get another deal with a few more years.

[The Moose]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201702240MIL.html

Anyone remember this game?

The 0/0/0/0/0/1 foul box score
in 28 mins

[thesack12]

Need to see his stats after the year. He’s still has a high TS% as a wing and was able to get Milwaukee to lock him up on that contract last time so we’ll see.

Snell has a career average of only 5.4 field goal attempts and .6 free throw attempts per game, so I'm not going to put too much stock into his TS%.

He has a career 6.0 offensive win shares and 7.5 defensive win shares
A career -1.1 offensive and -0.8 defensive box plus/minus
Holds a career .3 value over replacement player

People are over-rating Snell. He's only going to start in Detroit because they arguably have the worst collection of wings in the entire league.

Again all that said, I'd love to see him opt out.

I’m not overrating **** and clearly remember telling Bucks fans that was dumb when they signed him. I’m just saying I’m hoping he has a good year and opts out to try and get another deal with a few more years.

Don't get upset, I said "people" not "you."

Go back and look through this thread and read what people were saying about Snell.

[Kilo]

Hopefully he has a good year and opts out. I would say that’s crazy but seeing the type of players that are opting out this summer in a loaded FA class has me wondering. Next year he would actually have takers to give him a longer contract

If he gets through the season healthy and believes he could get 8M AAV on a 4 year contract it could be a possibility. MKE probably stretch releases Leuer regardless, but probably felt no way Snell would opt out of he was back-up there all season and wouldn't show out for his next contract.

[thesack12]

Hopefully he has a good year and opts out. I would say that’s crazy but seeing the type of players that are opting out this summer in a loaded FA class has me wondering. Next year he would actually have takers to give him a longer contract

If he gets through the season healthy and believes he could get 8M AAV on a 4 year contract it could be a possibility. MKE probably stretch releases Leuer regardless, but probably felt no way Snell would opt out of he was back-up there all season and wouldn't show out for his next contract.

Yup, with DiVincenzo being healthy he was probably going to take Snell's spot in the rotation anyways.

[Manocad]

Looking at the last 11 years, the people that fit into that category have been right WAY more than they've been wrong. Maybe it's time to put some respect on their basketball knowledge and stop trying to vilify the Piston fans that aren't blind homers since they seem to be the only ones that know what they're talking about.

I don't think we can generalize about who has been right all the time. I personally don't mind negative opinions, it actually creates a discussion which is the purpose of the board. I do have less respect for those that are negative and can't come up with an original idea of their own, especially one that is realistic.

The worst is the rise in some users where they only go after people who are critical of the team while never clarifying what their stances are in their argument. In fact these guys don't even have an argument, they just point it out to criticize the criticism. It's toxic.

Thank God most people on here have original ideas and or a stance where they stand on, you can't argue with people who don't and just exist to criticize critical opinions.

Exactly. I don’t like where the Pistons are at right now, think they’ve got a really deep hole to dig out of, and don’t believe they can operate like NY, LA or Boston do relative to building a championship team. But any time I criticize an idea you can be damn sure there’s going to be plenty of counter argument. Being short on words is NOT a problem I have and I’ll give $1000 to anyone who can find of post of mine that reads “That sucks” rather than “I think that sucks because...” How many times am I going to be critical of ideas I don’t believe make sense? As many times as they get posted. It’s a forum, not a circle jerk. If you want a place to go where you talk and everyone answers with “Exactly! Awesome idea!” then social media platforms are the absolute worst place for you.

[Canadafan]

Soooooo......in all seriousness.....what did we end up getting for Jon Leuer? Cause that was some crazy movement on draft night lmao
Tony Snell and....?

Jon Leuer ($9.5 mil expiring) + #45
for
Tony Snell (owed $11.4 mil this season, $12.2 mil next season) + Deividas Sirvydis (who might stay overseas) + Jordan Bone (who Detroit signed to a 2 way contract) + Portland's 2nd in 2023.

A lot of people think Detroit just gave up the carcass of Jon Leuer, but in reality they sacrificed $2 mil of cap flexibility this summer (which is critical to the luxury tax concerns), sacrificed $12 mil of what would have been cap space next summer, plus their own 2nd this season.

Its a ridiculous poo poo platter of a "haul."

Originally it was Leuer for 30th. A guaranteed salary slot
Then we traded for 4 second rounders.
Then we traded our 45th and 2 of the second rounders for 37th?(cuckoo)
We didn't want the guaranteed money and another SG so I can sorta see why we went for the cash and 4 second rounders.
We targeted this Lithuanian guy but he wasn't gonna drop to us at 45 so we traded up. Ok.
I mean, all of this was a lot to deal with lmao but it was Jon freakin Leuer so we at least have a serviceable player who will hopefully be our main backup SF. Whereas Leuer wouldnt have played any minutes. We save a little cap this year by trading out of our guaranteed 30th pick. Get 4 other unguaranteed picks to play with. We wanted a guy so maybe he turns into the next Ginobli. If not who cares. Hes taking a chance. It was either swing for the homerun(37th) or watch the ball go by you and just take the walk(45th). We still end up with 37th and 2 second rounders and Snell for the great Jon Leuer.
The Bone trade really doesnt have anything to do with Leuer but if you want to add it in then it's another guy they were high on.
I dunno, just seems like a lot of overthinking. All these 30th picks and second round picks are just wild stabs in the dark at trying to get a decent player.
2020 we weren't gonna go out and sign KD or something. Might as well use that space for this year like we did in getting Snell. Just like you can bet Ed is trying to do with RJ and Galloway. Im sure his phone calls attempting to get free agents to sign with us this summer have been brutal. He knows we'd have to overpay for a crap player. We might not even be able to talk anybody decent into signing with us. Maybe just Ish with his bird rights, a minimum for 3rd string C, any remaining MLE money under luxury tax for backup C and trade Galloway with remaining 2nds for Crowder.

Dre-remaining luxury space-min.
Blake-Thon-#15
Crowder-Snell-#15
Brown-Luke-Kyrie
RJ-Ish-Bone

Theres your 2019-2020 Detroit Pistons

[thesack12]

Soooooo......in all seriousness.....what did we end up getting for Jon Leuer? Cause that was some crazy movement on draft night lmao
Tony Snell and....?

Jon Leuer ($9.5 mil expiring) + #45
for
Tony Snell (owed $11.4 mil this season, $12.2 mil next season) + Deividas Sirvydis (who might stay overseas) + Jordan Bone (who Detroit signed to a 2 way contract) + Portland's 2nd in 2023.

A lot of people think Detroit just gave up the carcass of Jon Leuer, but in reality they sacrificed $2 mil of cap flexibility this summer (which is critical to the luxury tax concerns), sacrificed $12 mil of what would have been cap space next summer, plus their own 2nd this season.

Its a ridiculous poo poo platter of a "haul."

Originally it was Leuer for 30th. A guaranteed salary slot
Then we traded for 4 second rounders.
Then we traded our 45th and 2 of the second rounders for 37th?(cuckoo)
We didn't want the guaranteed money and another SG so I can sorta see why we went for the cash and 4 second rounders.
We targeted this Lithuanian guy but he wasn't gonna drop to us at 45 so we traded up. Ok.
I mean, all of this was a lot to deal with lmao but it was Jon freakin Leuer so we at least have a serviceable player who will hopefully be our main backup SF. Whereas Leuer wouldnt have played any minutes. We save a little cap this year by trading out of our guaranteed 30th pick. Get 4 other unguaranteed picks to play with. We wanted a guy so maybe he turns into the next Ginobli. If not who cares. Hes taking a chance. It was either swing for the homerun(37th) or watch the ball go by you and just take the walk(45th). We still end up with 37th and 2 second rounders and Snell for the great Jon Leuer.
The Bone trade really doesnt have anything to do with Leuer but if you want to add it in then it's another guy they were high on.
I dunno, just seems like a lot of overthinking. All these 30th picks and second round picks are just wild stabs in the dark at trying to get a decent player.
2020 we weren't gonna go out and sign KD or something. Might as well use that space for this year like we did in getting Snell. Just like you can bet Ed is trying to do with RJ and Galloway. Im sure his phone calls attempting to get free agents to sign with us this summer have been brutal. He knows we'd have to overpay for a crap player. We might not even be able to talk anybody decent into signing with us. Maybe just Ish with his bird rights, a minimum for 3rd string C, any remaining MLE money under luxury tax for backup C and trade Galloway with remaining 2nds for Crowder.

Dre-remaining luxury space-min.
Blake-Thon-#15
Crowder-Snell-#15
Brown-Luke-Kyrie
RJ-Ish-Bone

Theres your 2019-2020 Detroit Pistons

You can't look at it from this narrow scope. Snell costs $2 mil more this season than Leuer did, so what kind of cap did they actually save by the time the dust settled? You could then say well, Detroit needed a SF so they would of had to sign one. Which is a valid point, but who knows what it would have cost Detroit to sign one. Orf they could have even looked to man the SF position with some combination of Kennard/Brown/Doumbouya/Svi. In addition, although Leuer sucks he was still a body for the frontcourt. Detroit was thin on bigs with him, now even more so. They are going to have to sign some guys for the frontcourt which further complicates the cap savings equation.

There are so many moving parts and subsequent moves to evaluate here, it would be a complete abstract practice trying to speculate what the cap implications for 2019 of what Detroit has now vs keeping Leuer would have been.

What we know for sure is that A) Both Leuer or Snell are easy players to replace B) Snell has the worst contract of the two in both annual salary and years remaining C) If/when Snell opts in, this move costs Detroit $12.2 of potential cap space in 2020.

One thing that always gets me about people saying that cap space isn't all that great for Detroit is that a lot of them forget that signing free agents isn't the only thing you can do with cap space. They also don't think about the fact that cap space doesn't have to be used immediately after obtaining it. Why not practice patience, and wait for the right trade to come along or perhaps even the right free agent to sign?

[thesack12]

Read on Twitter

If Milwaukee does indeed flip him somewhere, I'm going to be very interested to see what the return is.

[Canadafan]

One thing that always gets me about people saying that cap space isn't all that great for Detroit is that a lot of them forget that signing free agents isn't the only thing you can do with cap space. They also don't think about the fact that cap space doesn't have to be used immediately after obtaining it. Why not practice patience, and wait for the right trade to come along or perhaps even the right free agent to sign?

Trading for Snell in reality is how we used our 2020 cap space. It was just the opposite of practicing patience lol. Front office obviously likes him.
Just makes sense when you're in a market like ours to use our 1yr deals to try to get longer term contracts and assets. Hope we deal RJ and Galloway too

[Kilo]

Read on Twitter

If Milwaukee does indeed flip him somewhere, I'm going to be very interested to see what the return is.

Stretch him and shave off $6M of his cap hit this season - 3M cap hit each of next three years.

Stretch Snell and it would have been 6M over four seasons.

Trade saved Bucks $4M already (salary difference + #30 salary slot), if they stretch release Leuer saving them $6M more - the trade would have shaved off 10M from this years cap hit for them.

[thesack12]

One thing that always gets me about people saying that cap space isn't all that great for Detroit is that a lot of them forget that signing free agents isn't the only thing you can do with cap space. They also don't think about the fact that cap space doesn't have to be used immediately after obtaining it. Why not practice patience, and wait for the right trade to come along or perhaps even the right free agent to sign?

Trading for Snell in reality is how we used our 2020 cap space. It was just the opposite of practicing patience lol. Front office obviously likes him.
Just makes sense when you're in a market like ours to use our 1yr deals to try to get longer term contracts and assets. Hope we deal RJ and Galloway too

And that is exactly the problem. Pure cap space is worth more than the expiring contract of Jon Leuer. Had they waited, they could have offered $12 mil of pure cap space (that Snell represents) and its very likely they would have gotten a better haul than a middling role player on a bad contract + the worst 1st round pick there is.

[thesack12]

Read on Twitter

If Milwaukee does indeed flip him somewhere, I'm going to be very interested to see what the return is.

Stretch him and shave off $6M of his cap hit this season - 3M cap hit each of next three years.

Stretch Snell and it would have been 6M over four seasons.

Trade saved Bucks $4M already (salary difference + #30 salary slot), if they stretch release Leuer saving them $6M more - the trade would have shaved off 10M from this years cap hit for them.

Yup, the motivation for Milwaukee is clear.

Plus not having to worry about having Snell around next year as well, eases their tax concerns when factoring in probable Middleton and Brogdon extensions.