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Trade for Westbrook?

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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#901 » by MotownMadness » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:51 am

Manocad wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:One more thing I want to point out;

Those happy saying we didnt get westbrook are stating;

"Maybe 4th or 5th seed no chance at a title" may have been right, but you could have been wrong. Who knows just how good the team could have been, you dont know for sure.

On the other hand, I know for sure standing pat means another pointless season. There is no mystery at all.

I'll give you my answer...I want almost this entire team gone. Kennard and Brown get one more year; without showing signs of growth/improvement--dump 'em. I'll suffer the bad seasons if it's happening due to the entire team being made up of young, developing players. That's just my personal preference.

I've seen mountains of Pistons, Wings and Tigers playoffs games in my life; squeaking in and getting nowhere close to a championship doesn't mean jack s**t to me. To all the people who think "You just need to get in and you've got a shot if if if if if if if if if"--BS. In the NFL? Yeah. NHL? Eh. NBA? Since 1947 a #1 or #2 seed hasn't won the championship eight times. And those eight times? Six #3's, one #4 and one #6.

Then you should know being a NBA fan championship or bust mentality is getting you nowhere cause theres very good odds will both be dead by the time they ever win again.

You just go for it when you can and then the landscape changes constantly every year all around
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#902 » by NYPiston » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:52 am

zeebneeb wrote:
NYPiston wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:Then what is your solution? I honestly want to hear from those who are happy the team didnt improve.

What exactly are you expecting now?

1.)accept that we are going to have another mediocre season?

2.)hope the team restarts trading everyone off for picks?(I am all for this)

I'm at a loss how anyone can be happy to stand pat with the current roster.


I've been hoping for them to sell off their big contracts for futures for a few years now. Trade Andre and surround Blake with shooters for starters. Get Reggie and Galloway outta here by any means then when Blake opts out in a 2 years, hopefully they have a bunch of young assets to build around.

Bringing in Westbrook would have simply delayed the purgatory another few years, a 30+ year old Westbrook would not have made them a championship contender. I'm sick of them bringing in band aids, this would have been another one and a very expensive one at that.
I honestly would be happy with this but, it's not what is happening! That's why I'm pissed off here.

Those glad we didnt get Westbrook are absolutely NOT going to get what they want either, so not getting westbrook is worse!

There is no compromise here. No one is going to be happy, while someone else sad.

We are all sad becuase there will be no rebuild, and there will be no risky acquisitions.

This team is just going to be more of the same.

Sadness, all around.


I don't disagree. Being stuck in the mud with no clear direction sucks BUT bringing in Westbrook would have killed any future flexibility they might have for the sake of putting together a core that quite simply wouldn't have championship aspirations.

If going "all in" doesn't lead to championship contention then what's the point? Even at his best with great supporting casts, he wasn't winning championships so at 31-35 years old playing that intense style he does, what would have been left of him?
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#903 » by Manocad » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:54 am

MotownMadness wrote:
Manocad wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:One more thing I want to point out;

Those happy saying we didnt get westbrook are stating;

"Maybe 4th or 5th seed no chance at a title" may have been right, but you could have been wrong. Who knows just how good the team could have been, you dont know for sure.

On the other hand, I know for sure standing pat means another pointless season. There is no mystery at all.

I'll give you my answer...I want almost this entire team gone. Kennard and Brown get one more year; without showing signs of growth/improvement--dump 'em. I'll suffer the bad seasons if it's happening due to the entire team being made up of young, developing players. That's just my personal preference.

I've seen mountains of Pistons, Wings and Tigers playoffs games in my life; squeaking in and getting nowhere close to a championship doesn't mean jack s**t to me. To all the people who think "You just need to get in and you've got a shot if if if if if if if if if"--BS. In the NFL? Yeah. NHL? Eh. NBA? Since 1947 a #1 or #2 seed hasn't won the championship eight times. And those eight times? Six #3's, one #4 and one #6.

Then you should know being a NBA fan championship or bust mentality is getting you nowhere cause theres very good odds will both be dead by the time they ever win again.

You just go for it when you can and then the landscape changes constantly every year all around

So why isn't the championship won by a different team with a completely different roster every single year?
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#904 » by pollack419 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:58 am

I was hoping we could get Russ for cheap and not spend too much but I’m really excited about our depth my guess is we start

RJ/Luke/snell/Blake/Andre

Check out this bench

Rose/Brown/Sekou/Morris/thon

Plus we could sign a back up C still have Khryi, Svi and Tim. Also our 2 way contract

Really our best case scenario is our young players improve and we can move them when their value is higher for a better talent on a better contract
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#905 » by MotownMadness » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:07 am

Manocad wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
Manocad wrote:I'll give you my answer...I want almost this entire team gone. Kennard and Brown get one more year; without showing signs of growth/improvement--dump 'em. I'll suffer the bad seasons if it's happening due to the entire team being made up of young, developing players. That's just my personal preference.

I've seen mountains of Pistons, Wings and Tigers playoffs games in my life; squeaking in and getting nowhere close to a championship doesn't mean jack s**t to me. To all the people who think "You just need to get in and you've got a shot if if if if if if if if if"--BS. In the NFL? Yeah. NHL? Eh. NBA? Since 1947 a #1 or #2 seed hasn't won the championship eight times. And those eight times? Six #3's, one #4 and one #6.

Then you should know being a NBA fan championship or bust mentality is getting you nowhere cause theres very good odds will both be dead by the time they ever win again.

You just go for it when you can and then the landscape changes constantly every year all around

So why isn't the championship won by a different team with a completely different roster every single year?

Around in circles we go but thats my point there is no correct way to be championship or bust
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#906 » by The Moose » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:15 am

we missing the part that Westbrook only really wanted to go to Houston?
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#907 » by Manocad » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:20 am

MotownMadness wrote:
Manocad wrote:
MotownMadness wrote: Then you should know being a NBA fan championship or bust mentality is getting you nowhere cause theres very good odds will both be dead by the time they ever win again.

You just go for it when you can and then the landscape changes constantly every year all around

So why isn't the championship won by a different team with a completely different roster every single year?

Around in circles we go but thats my point there is no correct way to be championship or bust

I never said there was.

The two schools of thought here are:

- People who think you always go for broke and are pissed that the Pistons didn't get Westbrook because they think it was win a championship regardless of what happened after this year, and
- People who were relieved that the Pistons didn't get Westbrook because not only did they NOT think it was a chance to win a championship, but that it hindered the chances in the future.

It's not a right or wrong issue. It's personal preference. Obviously with some supporting arguments occasionally provided to support why they have those preferences.
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#908 » by A_dub06 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:23 am

For those complaining that we didn’t get RW and we are trodding out the same product as last year I’ve got another dose of reality for you, we are probably going to be putting out the same roster again (possibly minus Dre) the season after too. This is about clearing cap space and actually building something that can not just make playoffs but contend. We have one of the worst attendances in the league, trading for RW would help with that but how long for? The jury is already out on him and his style and we certainly wouldn’t be raising our ceiling much higher. I’ve heard 4 different analysts on NBA podcasts (Zach Lowe, Duncan and Leroux, someone from the ringer) all refer to RW as nothing more than a floor raiser while also stating the talent is undeniable. We need to ride out the salary cap storm, no more taking flyers on big names or using picks to dump salary. I don’t think anybody can deny that watching a team full of young athletic promising players compete night in night out while making rookie mistakes is a much more exciting product than what we have seen over the past decade. And for those saying “oh we need to trade Dre and BG right now then”, who knows how much value these guys actually have. If we can see how lazy Dre can be and the rest of his limitations, other teams definitely know what he is at this point and trading for him makes no sense when they could just make an offer for him in free agency. He’s not a piece that significantly helps his team. And for all the offensive versatility BG shows, he’s still a massive injury risk and I highly doubt we get as much for him in a trade than what we have up for him.
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#909 » by MotownMadness » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:40 am

A_dub06 wrote:For those complaining that we didn’t get RW and we are trodding out the same product as last year I’ve got another dose of reality for you, we are probably going to be putting out the same roster again (possibly minus Dre) the season after too. This is about clearing cap space and actually building something that can not just make playoffs but contend. We have one of the worst attendances in the league, trading for RW would help with that but how long for? The jury is already out on him and his style and we certainly wouldn’t be raising our ceiling much higher. I’ve heard 4 different analysts on NBA podcasts (Zach Lowe, Duncan and Leroux, someone from the ringer) all refer to RW as nothing more than a floor raiser while also stating the talent is undeniable. We need to ride out the salary cap storm, no more taking flyers on big names or using picks to dump salary. I don’t think anybody can deny that watching a team full of young athletic promising players compete night in night out while making rookie mistakes is a much more exciting product than what we have seen over the past decade. And for those saying “oh we need to trade Dre and BG right now then”, who knows how much value these guys actually have. If we can see how lazy Dre can be and the rest of his limitations, other teams definitely know what he is at this point and trading for him makes no sense when they could just make an offer for him in free agency. He’s not a piece that significantly helps his team. And for all the offensive versatility BG shows, he’s still a massive injury risk and I highly doubt we get as much for him in a trade than what we have up for him.

I doubt they learned much. SVG preached patience and not mortgaging the future until about 4 seasons of realizing its impossible to get FAs here and got desperate. He also drafted like crap too though

If you gave them 30 mil next year guarantee they blow it on 3 role players cause the NBA makes you spend it and they are hell bent on being in the playoffs
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#910 » by A_dub06 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:48 am

MotownMadness wrote:
A_dub06 wrote:For those complaining that we didn’t get RW and we are trodding out the same product as last year I’ve got another dose of reality for you, we are probably going to be putting out the same roster again (possibly minus Dre) the season after too. This is about clearing cap space and actually building something that can not just make playoffs but contend. We have one of the worst attendances in the league, trading for RW would help with that but how long for? The jury is already out on him and his style and we certainly wouldn’t be raising our ceiling much higher. I’ve heard 4 different analysts on NBA podcasts (Zach Lowe, Duncan and Leroux, someone from the ringer) all refer to RW as nothing more than a floor raiser while also stating the talent is undeniable. We need to ride out the salary cap storm, no more taking flyers on big names or using picks to dump salary. I don’t think anybody can deny that watching a team full of young athletic promising players compete night in night out while making rookie mistakes is a much more exciting product than what we have seen over the past decade. And for those saying “oh we need to trade Dre and BG right now then”, who knows how much value these guys actually have. If we can see how lazy Dre can be and the rest of his limitations, other teams definitely know what he is at this point and trading for him makes no sense when they could just make an offer for him in free agency. He’s not a piece that significantly helps his team. And for all the offensive versatility BG shows, he’s still a massive injury risk and I highly doubt we get as much for him in a trade than what we have up for him.

I doubt they learned much. SVG preached patience and not mortgaging the future until about 4 seasons of realizing its impossible to get FAs here and got desperate. He also drafted like crap too though

If you gave them 30 mil next year guarantee they blow it on 3 role players cause the NBA makes you spend it and they are hell bent on being in the playoffs


You are assuming that the front office has the same ideologies and perspective that SVG had and it’s clearly not the same. We have some plan in place despite none of us truly knowing what that is, and what we’ve seen is that the team doesn’t want to take contracts that extend past BG’s. I think Stefanski wants to rebuild but he’s managing Gores “win-now” mindset by saying that we try to win as much as we can now providing it doesn’t cost us future assets or cap flexibility. We could’ve easily beaten Houston’s offer but we didn’t, which shows that the front office values the future over more marginal improvements that previous regimes would’ve jumped on.
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#911 » by MotownMadness » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:55 am

A_dub06 wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
A_dub06 wrote:For those complaining that we didn’t get RW and we are trodding out the same product as last year I’ve got another dose of reality for you, we are probably going to be putting out the same roster again (possibly minus Dre) the season after too. This is about clearing cap space and actually building something that can not just make playoffs but contend. We have one of the worst attendances in the league, trading for RW would help with that but how long for? The jury is already out on him and his style and we certainly wouldn’t be raising our ceiling much higher. I’ve heard 4 different analysts on NBA podcasts (Zach Lowe, Duncan and Leroux, someone from the ringer) all refer to RW as nothing more than a floor raiser while also stating the talent is undeniable. We need to ride out the salary cap storm, no more taking flyers on big names or using picks to dump salary. I don’t think anybody can deny that watching a team full of young athletic promising players compete night in night out while making rookie mistakes is a much more exciting product than what we have seen over the past decade. And for those saying “oh we need to trade Dre and BG right now then”, who knows how much value these guys actually have. If we can see how lazy Dre can be and the rest of his limitations, other teams definitely know what he is at this point and trading for him makes no sense when they could just make an offer for him in free agency. He’s not a piece that significantly helps his team. And for all the offensive versatility BG shows, he’s still a massive injury risk and I highly doubt we get as much for him in a trade than what we have up for him.

I doubt they learned much. SVG preached patience and not mortgaging the future until about 4 seasons of realizing its impossible to get FAs here and got desperate. He also drafted like crap too though

If you gave them 30 mil next year guarantee they blow it on 3 role players cause the NBA makes you spend it and they are hell bent on being in the playoffs


You are assuming that the front office has the same ideologies and perspective that SVG had and it’s clearly not the same. We have some plan in place despite none of us truly knowing what that is, and what we’ve seen is that the team doesn’t want to take contracts that extend past BG’s. I think Stefanski wants to rebuild but he’s managing Gores “win-now” mindset by saying that we try to win as much as we can now providing it doesn’t cost us future assets or cap flexibility. We could’ve easily beaten Houston’s offer but we didn’t, which shows that the front office values the future over more marginal improvements that previous regimes would’ve jumped on.


SVG literally did and said all that stuff too until his final year and he got desperate cause eventually you stare at the assets until they are paid and no longer assets or ypu trade them for a star and then there goes your depth. Rinse and repeat
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#912 » by CubicalLake7 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:07 am

A huge difference between SVG then and our current situation is that we have a Coach inthat has the capacity to develop young talent and is willing to give them an opportunity to play.
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#913 » by A_dub06 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:08 am

MotownMadness wrote:
A_dub06 wrote:
MotownMadness wrote: I doubt they learned much. SVG preached patience and not mortgaging the future until about 4 seasons of realizing its impossible to get FAs here and got desperate. He also drafted like crap too though

If you gave them 30 mil next year guarantee they blow it on 3 role players cause the NBA makes you spend it and they are hell bent on being in the playoffs


You are assuming that the front office has the same ideologies and perspective that SVG had and it’s clearly not the same. We have some plan in place despite none of us truly knowing what that is, and what we’ve seen is that the team doesn’t want to take contracts that extend past BG’s. I think Stefanski wants to rebuild but he’s managing Gores “win-now” mindset by saying that we try to win as much as we can now providing it doesn’t cost us future assets or cap flexibility. We could’ve easily beaten Houston’s offer but we didn’t, which shows that the front office values the future over more marginal improvements that previous regimes would’ve jumped on.


SVG literally did and said all that stuff too until his final year and he got desperate cause eventually you stare at the assets until they are paid and no longer assets or ypu trade them for a star and then there goes your depth. Rinse and repeat


He said that but never did that. He realised we weren’t going to land big free agents but then he wasted precious cap space on deals like Leuer, Galloway and Boban, and then traded significant assets for BG. Gores may be an ego maniac but he’s intelligent and at some point (and I think the penny has dropped) that you can’t win or fill seats consistently by trading away future assets and cap flexibility for win now pieces. You need the foundation before that becomes a logical position unless said player is young and has great potential.

There has been savy moves available that we never took. If we didn’t trade for BG, we could’ve drafted SGA and then later flipped Harris to Philly for the package they got as we wouldn’t have been trying to make playoffs so it wouldn’t have mattered trading to a conference rival. I understand hindsight is 20/20, but SVG was a bad GM and if we waited instead of jumping on big names, the team would look much better in terms of a rebuild and our future outlook.
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#914 » by ducler » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:58 am

I think we're kind of winners of this trade as Westbrook stays in the West. No need to overpay if he wasn't traded to Miami or Orlando instead of us.
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#915 » by Detstones89 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:18 am

I’ve said it a few times now I would have been happy either way as long as he didn’t come to the East, how ever it’s BS that we are wasting BG and Casey’s window to be no better than 7th or 8th seed. We are content on being in the playoffs and continuing our not winning a playoff game streak.
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#916 » by _Und3r][D4wg_ » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:29 am

Somebody needs to resurrect this thread during the ASB, after we've seen where the slightly retooled Pistons stand, as well as Russ' effect on his new team. :biggrin:

And somebody needs to dig up the story on whether Detroit was ever an acceptable destination for Russ, and whether Presti would've gone against WB's preferred destination had our offer been superior. Because if the answer to both questions are in the negative, then... :dontknow:
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#917 » by A_dub06 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:05 am

_Und3r][D4wg_ wrote:Somebody needs to resurrect this thread during the ASB, after we've seen where the slightly retooled Pistons stand, as well as Russ' effect on his new team. :biggrin:

And somebody needs to dig up the story on whether Detroit was ever an acceptable destination for Russ, and whether Presti would've gone against WB's preferred destination had our offer been superior. Because if the answer to both questions are in the negative, then... :dontknow:


I’m up for discussing pretty much anything NBA related but I really don’t see the point in bumping this thread if your post is in the hypothetical context of if RW was traded here. If the RW and Harden experiment looks like a success it doesn’t mean that RW would have been a success here, and if it fails it doesn’t tell us anything further that we don’t already know. I do think the Rockets fans perception of RW will be interesting to follow though!
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#918 » by sc8581 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:44 am

Manocad wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
Manocad wrote:I'll give you my answer...I want almost this entire team gone. Kennard and Brown get one more year; without showing signs of growth/improvement--dump 'em. I'll suffer the bad seasons if it's happening due to the entire team being made up of young, developing players. That's just my personal preference.

I've seen mountains of Pistons, Wings and Tigers playoffs games in my life; squeaking in and getting nowhere close to a championship doesn't mean jack s**t to me. To all the people who think "You just need to get in and you've got a shot if if if if if if if if if"--BS. In the NFL? Yeah. NHL? Eh. NBA? Since 1947 a #1 or #2 seed hasn't won the championship eight times. And those eight times? Six #3's, one #4 and one #6.

Then you should know being a NBA fan championship or bust mentality is getting you nowhere cause theres very good odds will both be dead by the time they ever win again.

You just go for it when you can and then the landscape changes constantly every year all around

So why isn't the championship won by a different team with a completely different roster every single year?


Hasn't there been like 7 different champions in the last 10 years?
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#919 » by 440BB » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:23 am

It looks to me like both Miami and Detroit were just being used to bump up the deal with Houston from the start. They said early on that they were going to honor Westbrook's preference. I think Westbrook was in on it with his teasing retweets about Miami.

I could be wrong but if I am, Houston was his second choice. We were never really in the conversation.
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Re: Trade for Westbrook? 

Post#920 » by Mr. Krabs » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:36 am

440BB wrote:It looks to me like both Miami and Detroit were just being used to bump up the deal with Houston from the start. They said early on that they were going to honor Westbrook's preference. I think Westbrook was in on it with his teasing retweets about Miami.

I could be wrong but if I am, Houston was his second choice. We were never really in the conversation.

Nah, I think potentially this can be the best move for OKC. They got 2 picks + 2 pick swaps, and they still have CP3 to turn into value. They can potentially trade him midseason where a number of teams will panic to go over the top and get more picks! Worst case scenario, they hold onto him for a year and his contract doesn't look too bad and he will inflated numbers due to being the number 1 option. I think thats a good risk to take, if they traded with us, or Miami, they would likely to only have a pick and expirings. They are betting on Paul to bring in more value.

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