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Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C

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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#61 » by buzzkilloton » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:53 pm

Uncle Mxy wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:The sixers were all in for a title they would of easily made a trade with us. The in divison thing doesnt matter when one team is a title contender while the other is at battling for a 1st round exit. We arent even in the same division as the sixers by the way.

Conference! I meant conference! Doh! And yeah, within the same conference can matter.

The Sixers were a 51-win team with young kids, not a serious title contender this year. They made big moves trying to take it to the next level and got as far as a second round exit, and couldn't keep the core together after that. We'll see how it goes...

Regardless if it wasnt the sixers someone else would of been interested in Harris and we could of got some value. Teams value players who can stretch the floor. I mean he was used to land Blake Griffin and he was used to get that package from the sixers so clearly u see he was a player that could get back alot of value in trades.

Some value, sure. 2 first round picks for an unsigned Harris, if he continued to play like he did as a Piston? I'm not buying it.


Teams trade within conference all the time. Tons of trades have been made within conference over the years. This isnt even something that matters in the least. Paul George traded within conference, Westbrook traded conference, and A.Davis traded within conference all just this season. CP3 traded from clippers to rox in the conference. Could go on and on not sure why you think this is a thing its not.

The sixers were a 52 win team that finished 3rd in the conference in 2018. They made it to the 2nd round. Lebron left the conference they were clearly thinking title why wouldnt they? Hence why they traded for Butler early in the season and followed it up with Harris.

As far as not being a serious title contender this season the sixers took the champions to game 7. It took a miracle shot by leonard with time expiring to not go to ot game 7. The sixers played the champs better then the bucks or warriors. Clearly they were serious contenders.

This season 538 predicts the sixers to win 59 games with a 56% chance to go to the finals and a 26% chance of winning it all by the way. Clearly theyre considered title contenders. https://in.nba.com/news/fivethirtyeight-nba-playoff-predictions-raptors-finals-76ers-bucks-rockets-nuggets-lakers/p4z652l3yid516t3e2nz4opg4

Vegas has them 4th highest win total in the league. https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-win-totals-betting-odds-2019-2020

T.Harris averaged 18ppg and shot nearly 41% from 3 his last season as a piston as a 25 year old. Not sure where you're getting he wasnt playing good. Players who can stretch the floor are valuable. Going into a contract year and turning age 26 players usually improve on age 25 seasons a bit like he did.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#62 » by Uncle Mxy » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:08 pm

The Sixers had 51 wins not 52 by the way. And, big trading within your conference within the midst of a playoff chase by both teams involved, where you'd give up TWO first rounders for an unsigned player for part of a season? I'm not saying that Tobias wasn't' good. I'm saying he wasn't SO good where it surely would've played out this way for us the way it did for the Clippers. And, that seems to be one big argument that the Clippers got the better end of the deal.

Last year, I was expecting a deep playoff run by the Sixers, but not a championship. They were a year away, even with the trades they made. Their big core was still young kids, coming off a 28-win season the year before. Ben Simmons is great, but didn't strike me as the second coming of Magic. Jimmy Butler was disruptive, but not necessarily in a good way -- proven yet again. Tobias is, frankly, a beta. This upcoming year, sure.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#63 » by buzzkilloton » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:18 pm

Uncle Mxy wrote:The Sixers had 51 wins not 52 by the way. And, big trading within your conference within the midst of a playoff chase by both teams involved, where you'd give up TWO first rounders for an unsigned player for part of a season? I'm not saying that Tobias wasn't' good. I'm saying he wasn't SO good where it surely would've played out this way for us the way it did for the Clippers. And, that seems to be one big argument that the Clippers got the better end of the deal.

Last year, I was expecting a deep playoff run by the Sixers, but not a championship. They were a year away, even with the trades they made. Their big core was still young kids, coming off a 28-win season the year before. Ben Simmons is great, but didn't strike me as the second coming of Magic. Jimmy Butler was disruptive, but not necessarily in a good way -- proven yet again. Tobias is, frankly, a beta. This upcoming year, sure.


They had 52 wins in 2017 and 51 in 2018.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/

They were 100% ready to make a deep playoff run after making the 2nd round in 2017.Lebron left the conference. They almost beat the champs this season.

The pistons wouldnt of even been in a playoff chase if Blake wasnt here last season.They were in a playoff chase and they traded one of there best players this year knowing they wouldnt resign him because he wanted too much.

Again the point is nobody can make the claim "it was a bad trade because we would have T.Harris signed at a huge contract". As theres a strong possibility we end up trading him as he had alot of value on the market similar to what the clippers just did. Signing Harris to be a 35 win team at a huge contract makes zero sense.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#64 » by greymond » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:40 am

buzzkilloton wrote:
Uncle Mxy wrote:The Sixers had 51 wins not 52 by the way. And, big trading within your conference within the midst of a playoff chase by both teams involved, where you'd give up TWO first rounders for an unsigned player for part of a season? I'm not saying that Tobias wasn't' good. I'm saying he wasn't SO good where it surely would've played out this way for us the way it did for the Clippers. And, that seems to be one big argument that the Clippers got the better end of the deal.

Last year, I was expecting a deep playoff run by the Sixers, but not a championship. They were a year away, even with the trades they made. Their big core was still young kids, coming off a 28-win season the year before. Ben Simmons is great, but didn't strike me as the second coming of Magic. Jimmy Butler was disruptive, but not necessarily in a good way -- proven yet again. Tobias is, frankly, a beta. This upcoming year, sure.


They had 52 wins in 2017 and 51 in 2018.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/

They were 100% ready to make a deep playoff run after making the 2nd round in 2018.Lebron left the conference. They almost beat the champs this season.

The pistons wouldnt of even been in a playoff chase if Blake wasnt here last season.They were in a playoff chase and they traded one of there best players this year knowing they wouldnt resign him because he wanted too much.

Again the point is nobody can make the claim "it was a bad trade because we would have T.Harris signed at a huge contract". As theres a strong possibility we end up trading him as he had alot of value on the market similar to what the clippers just did. Signing Harris to be a 35 win team at a huge contract makes zero sense.
Both teams won. Blake makes us strong n if we trade him our future should be good. Tobias is a stud but blake makes the team go. Blake gets people involved. Tobias spot up but no involvement with teamates.

How aweful would it have been to have Tobias and had 36 n 37 wins the past 2 years. Straight dookie. Then he would have left n we have nothing.

Now we have a star to build or trade around.

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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#65 » by buzzkilloton » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:59 am

greymond wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:
Uncle Mxy wrote:T

How aweful would it have been to have Tobias and had 36 n 37 wins the past 2 years. Straight dookie. Then he would have left n we have nothing.

Now we have a star to build or trade around.

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As I've been saying I dont see why we would just hold T.Harris through the season. We wouldnt of been a good team last year if we had T.Harris instead of Blake. I'm thinking we would of done the same exact thing we did with Bullock who we werent resigning and traded him. So instead of Blake we would of had Bridges/SGA +whatever we could of got for Harris from whatever team was interested.

That said we technically could still turn out doing well IF we trade Blake right now. Teams are giving up big packages for stars currently and it could be franchise changing. If all we do is hold Blake and ride him into the 1st round for a few seasons then yeah trade was epic fail.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#66 » by The_Irony » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:37 am

pistons clearly won the trade.

imagine giving a max to Tobias ..disgusting. he's set to make more than Blake :lol:
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#67 » by kellmellus50 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:59 pm

The_Irony wrote:pistons clearly won the trade.

imagine giving a max to Tobias ..disgusting. he's set to make more than Blake :lol:


I agree 100% Pistons we won the trade ,but we still need to see what we get when we trade Blake.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#68 » by DCintheD » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:23 pm

Clippers clearly won the trade. They turned Blake into 3 draft picks that led to Paul George and cap space that led to Kawhi. I don’t understand how most of you don’t see this.. each move they made built on the other and now they’re legit contenders while we’re fighting for the 8th seed in the east.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#69 » by kellmellus50 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:29 pm

DCintheD wrote:Clippers clearly won the trade. They turned Blake into 3 draft picks that led to Paul George and cap space that led to Kawhi. I don’t understand how most of you don’t see this.. each move they made built on the other and now they’re legit contenders while we’re fighting for the 8th seed in the east.


They took the players that we traded to the Clippers and traded them again,Well that's all we have to do with Blake so really this is incomplete until we make the final trade with Blake which will give us the final results'
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#70 » by Sort » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:09 pm

The only point I would make is a reminder that LAC is a big market, desirable location whereas Detroit is not. The truth is that the trade wasn't done on equal footing, so really, you're left evaluating how well one side handled it all. A lot of stuff SVG and Bowers did just came up short, but Phillie is going to regret Tobias's contract due to postseason results - that was always his hangup. Maybe he'll change. And Pistons had no path to flip Tobias into Leonard - none.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#71 » by kellmellus50 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:40 pm

Sort wrote:The only point I would make is a reminder that LAC is a big market, desirable location whereas Detroit is not. The truth is that the trade wasn't done on equal footing, so really, you're left evaluating how well one side handled it all. A lot of stuff SVG and Bowers did just came up short, but Phillie is going to regret Tobias's contract due to postseason results - that was always his hangup. Maybe he'll change. And Pistons had no path to flip Tobias into Leonard - none.


Pistons had no path to flip Tobias into Leonard - none. (100% Agreed)
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#72 » by The_Irony » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:37 pm

DCintheD wrote:Clippers clearly won the trade. They turned Blake into 3 draft picks that led to Paul George and cap space that led to Kawhi. I don’t understand how most of you don’t see this.. each move they made built on the other and now they’re legit contenders while we’re fighting for the 8th seed in the east.



that's not the argument for me

im not debating about the moves that came after since that logic doesnt make sense. people assume the Pistons could or would have made the same deal the clippers made or people in general assume teams all can make the same deals. I'm talking about what was lost and gained with the players involved, not what resulted afterwards from the trade.



the clippers got lucky they found a sucker to give Tobias 180 million. would Detroit have been that fortunate? who knows. Blake is a better player and a better contract over time than Tobias. I haven't seen anything to believe Shai is an all star lock.

pistons won the trade.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#73 » by Spider156 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:22 pm

Pistons definitely won the trade. With that said, Clippers only won it because they got Kawhi to come to them via free agency. That's not under Detroit's control, he's from LA. That's the nature of the business. The biggest losers are the 76ers. Also, it doesn't matter now what we get for Blake. He came in to get us to the Playoffs and he's done that so far. Going forward if we trade him this year, then that counts towards the overall trade we made for him. But if he's staying until his contract expires then it's over. Blake is here for more than Playoffs, his leadership, cultural change is the difference maker on the team.

As far as the people looking at who the Clippers got, consider that Kawhi can leave the Clippers to the Lakers in 3 seasons after he beats Lebron out of LA. That's ultimately the plan in my opinion. Paul George and Leonard want to beat the king in his own building and take the team away from him after the fans oust Lebron IF he loses.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#74 » by DCintheD » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:18 am

The_Irony wrote:
DCintheD wrote:Clippers clearly won the trade. They turned Blake into 3 draft picks that led to Paul George and cap space that led to Kawhi. I don’t understand how most of you don’t see this.. each move they made built on the other and now they’re legit contenders while we’re fighting for the 8th seed in the east.



that's not the argument for me

im not debating about the moves that came after since that logic doesnt make sense. people assume the Pistons could or would have made the same deal the clippers made or people in general assume teams all can make the same deals. I'm talking about what was lost and gained with the players involved, not what resulted afterwards from the trade.



the clippers got lucky they found a sucker to give Tobias 180 million. would Detroit have been that fortunate? who knows. Blake is a better player and a better contract over time than Tobias. I haven't seen anything to believe Shai is an all star lock.

pistons won the trade.

If you stop at Blake vs Tobias then sure, the Pistons won the trade cuz Blake > Tobias, especially taking their respective contracts into account. But it’s foolish not to consider what the Clippers did with the pieces they got from the Blake trade, hence the clippers won the trade and it’s not even close. Even without PG and Kawhi I’d take that scrappy team with cap flexibility over this 8th seed ceiling led by the mighty Blake Griffin.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#75 » by srt4b » Sun Aug 4, 2019 12:15 pm

Both won.

Blake has been unreal for us. We have 2 more years to do something with him. We were on a downward spiral before Blake, now we are on the incline.

Clippers obviously used Tobias as a stepping store to get to the favorite to win the title. That was a 3 tiered move and the last tier the Pistons can never complete due to not being in southern California

In 2 years the Clippers could be a 10 win team again for several years with no picks. Who knows. In 2 years we could have 12 totally new players based on 80m in contracts ending
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#76 » by 50CalClips » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:50 pm

Not to rub it in, but... it should be obvious who won the trade.


Thanks to Mr. Clippers himself, aka The Logo, aka Jerry West

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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#77 » by ComboGuardCity » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:22 pm

50CalClips wrote:Not to rub it in, but... it should be obvious who won the trade.


Thanks to Mr. Clippers himself, aka The Logo, aka Jerry West

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Clips probably could’ve kept their picks and traded Blake for PG straight up.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#78 » by 50CalClips » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:23 pm

The L.A. Clippers got about 2 or 3 STARTERS from the Blake Griffin trade, and pieces that helped acquire Paul George.


2017 Clippers to 2020 Clippers:

Chris Paul --> HOUSTON ROCKETS
    Pat Beverley
    Lou Williams
    Montrezl Harrell
    part of Paul George (via Gallinari, via 2018 pick/Omari Spellman)

Blake Griffin --> DETROIT PISTONS
    Landry Shamet (via Tobias)
    Ivica Zubac (via Muscala, via Boban)
    JaMychal Green (via Bradley)
    Mfiondu Kabengele (via Tobias, via 2020 pick)
    part of Paul George (via Shai Gil-Alex, via 2018 pick/Miles Bridges)
    part of Paul George (via Tobias, 2021 pick)

Jamal Crawford --> ATLANTA HAWKS (/DENVER NUGGETS)
    part of Paul George (via Gallinari)
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#79 » by 50CalClips » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:27 pm

ComboGuardCity wrote:
50CalClips wrote:Not to rub it in, but... it should be obvious who won the trade.
Thanks to Mr. Clippers himself, aka The Logo, aka Jerry West


Clips probably could’ve kept their picks and traded Blake for PG straight up.


I doubt it. And there were other assets that came from the Blake trade. "The build" was part of developing the culture that now exists in the Clips locker room.
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Re: Who got the better end of trade DET or LA.C 

Post#80 » by Manocad » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:18 pm

50CalClips wrote:
ComboGuardCity wrote:
50CalClips wrote:Not to rub it in, but... it should be obvious who won the trade.
Thanks to Mr. Clippers himself, aka The Logo, aka Jerry West


Clips probably could’ve kept their picks and traded Blake for PG straight up.


I doubt it. And there were other assets that came from the Blake trade. "The build" was part of developing the culture that now exists in the Clips locker room.

Ah yes...the "first round playoff exit" culture. Not to rub it in, but...the Pistons have that culture in their lockerroom too. That makes the trade a tie then.
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