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Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline

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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#21 » by theBigLip » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:07 am

I think we have two plausible paths:

1. We play it out with the team we have, DO NOT trade any future first round picks for a missing piece, and be in the 5-8 range in the playoffs. Or...

2. Trade the Big 3 by the deadline. In spite of his contract, Blake has positive value. Dre and Reggie are both expiring and should be having a good season for their contract year. I think they will both have positive value. Trade them for younger players with potential on good contracts and picks, maybe a few expirings as well if need to balance the trade.

Regardless of the path we take, unless we do something stupid this season, we should have flexibility next summer and can finally start building things right. And it doesn't matter if the free agency class next year is weak - keep the flexibility into the season and next summer. Just no more stupid contracts.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#22 » by 440BB » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:34 am

I think we need to trade Andre most. His recent statement that he's going to be a free agent next year is just talk. The only way to free up the cap space and be rid of his sporadic motivation in 2020 is to eliminate his taking that player option on our nickel. His statements just make it easier to want him gone.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#23 » by DTP » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:41 am

It blows my mind with how many "potential" guys this franchise has completely missed on how ungrateful and unappreciative you guys are on the one kid that has actually exceeded his potential for this franchise. 16ppg 17rpg and played in 79 games....what else do you guys freaking want? He doesn't play as hard as Ben did but what star in this league does nowadays?

There was a time Dre was just big and athletic but the last two years he's taken a big step, he's be great, he suits up every night...it just bothers me that this fan base can't get behind him. There's been a lot to complain about but Dre aint one of them. There's been a lot of factors as to why this team doesn't win but Dre aint one of them.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#24 » by The Moose » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:27 am

DTP wrote:It blows my mind with how many "potential" guys this franchise has completely missed on how ungrateful and unappreciative you guys are on the one kid that has actually exceeded his potential for this franchise. 16ppg 17rpg and played in 79 games....what else do you guys freaking want? He doesn't play as hard as Ben did but what star in this league does nowadays?

There was a time Dre was just big and athletic but the last two years he's taken a big step, he's be great, he suits up every night...it just bothers me that this fan base can't get behind him. There's been a lot to complain about but Dre aint one of them. There's been a lot of factors as to why this team doesn't win but Dre aint one of them.


Which of the best teams in the league have one of the top 2 best/highest paid players playing Center? 76ers and Nuggets is all I can think of, and both of those players have completely different games to Drummond. Paying a player like Drummond just isn't a winning formula in todays game. I'd much rather we just sign a league average center, and upgrade the wings.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#25 » by Billl » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:14 pm

DTP wrote:It blows my mind with how many "potential" guys this franchise has completely missed on how ungrateful and unappreciative you guys are on the one kid that has actually exceeded his potential for this franchise. 16ppg 17rpg and played in 79 games....what else do you guys freaking want? He doesn't play as hard as Ben did but what star in this league does nowadays?

There was a time Dre was just big and athletic but the last two years he's taken a big step, he's be great, he suits up every night...it just bothers me that this fan base can't get behind him. There's been a lot to complain about but Dre aint one of them. There's been a lot of factors as to why this team doesn't win but Dre aint one of them.


Dre is a quality starter. The problem is that he is paid like a star and doesn't have that type of consistent impact. It would be different if he was a dominant guy on D, but he really isn't. In today's NBA, I think you can still win with a traditional center, but he's got to provide enough rim protection to make up for what he lacks on the perimeter.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#26 » by DTP » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:20 pm

The Moose wrote:
DTP wrote:It blows my mind with how many "potential" guys this franchise has completely missed on how ungrateful and unappreciative you guys are on the one kid that has actually exceeded his potential for this franchise. 16ppg 17rpg and played in 79 games....what else do you guys freaking want? He doesn't play as hard as Ben did but what star in this league does nowadays?

There was a time Dre was just big and athletic but the last two years he's taken a big step, he's be great, he suits up every night...it just bothers me that this fan base can't get behind him. There's been a lot to complain about but Dre aint one of them. There's been a lot of factors as to why this team doesn't win but Dre aint one of them.


Which of the best teams in the league have one of the top 2 best/highest paid players playing Center? 76ers and Nuggets is all I can think of, and both of those players have completely different games to Drummond. Paying a player like Drummond just isn't a winning formula in todays game. I'd much rather we just sign a league average center, and upgrade the wings.


That argument only holds wait if you were able to put Embiid or Jokic in this same position and they'd turn the team into title contenders.....with either case, this team would probably be exactly where it is now. The roster is too limited. The biggest difference for Dre is he's never had a roster successfully built around him like they've done in Philly & Boston. If the Pistons could've somehow gotten a Marcus Morris or hell even Jae Crowder, they could easily be fighting for home court advantage.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#27 » by Canadafan » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:11 pm

DTP wrote:It blows my mind with how many "potential" guys this franchise has completely missed on how ungrateful and unappreciative you guys are on the one kid that has actually exceeded his potential for this franchise. 16ppg 17rpg and played in 79 games....what else do you guys freaking want? He doesn't play as hard as Ben did but what star in this league does nowadays?

There was a time Dre was just big and athletic but the last two years he's taken a big step, he's be great, he suits up every night...it just bothers me that this fan base can't get behind him. There's been a lot to complain about but Dre aint one of them. There's been a lot of factors as to why this team doesn't win but Dre aint one of them.


I can admit that I'd prefer Reggie traded before Dre. Like u say Dre is durable. His rebound numbers, to me, give false hope. Numerous times when we really need that important rebound he fails to secure it. He pads those numbers with multiple tips and with his teammates funneling them to him. He scores 16pts on horrible percentages for a big man. Dude should be at 60% fg with just dunks and layups but he tries all these crazy moves where he tosses up a shot that makes him look like an 8th grader. His defense is frustrating to say the least. Extends his hand straight out ALL the time when he contests a shot instead of straight up. Drives me nuts lol.
The issue though is hes opting out and RJ is a free agent. So what's our plan? Let them walk for nothing? Re-sign both?
Can we honestly say we wouldn't be better if we had let's say Baynes at center and Beverley at PG? Two guys that would cost half what these two make but go out there and try to kill their opponent. Those are the guys I could get behind. And then youd have extra money to have another guy, a wing who can help the team.
Tying up ridiculous amounts of money(which its gonna take to keep Dre at least)seems like a horrible idea.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#28 » by theBigLip » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:15 pm

I'm not so down on Reggie anymore. His career (and our investment) was ruined with his injuries, but he seems healthy now and he does play hard, something that I can't say for Dre. But I can't see spending much money on keeping RJ either.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#29 » by DBC10 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:30 pm

theBigLip wrote:I'm not so down on Reggie anymore. His career (and our investment) was ruined with his injuries, but he seems healthy now and he does play hard, something that I can't say for Dre. But I can't see spending much money on keeping RJ either.


I was never as high on RJ, always thought he was basically a Westbrook-acolyte minus the freak athleticism and triple doubles. He's too sticky with the ball and isn't a creative playmaker. Selfish etc etc. Then again, I'm not a Westbrook fan at all so I digress.


Regardless, I think in order for Dre to get star money, he needs to perform like a star. True stars after all will their team to victories in spite of their and the roster's shortcomings. I can't count when Dre has ever done that in a crucial game (like last year's crucial playoff lock vs Hornets and he imploded mid way) or let alone a playoff game where he makes his mark.

He's too much of an auxiliary player, elite of elite garbageman but lacking offensive and defensive game. Is that objectively worth north of 25 million which is basically a quarter of the cap space when we have another front court star that's locked up there that's just as costly? My belief is no.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#30 » by Drwho17 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:10 pm

DTP wrote:It blows my mind with how many "potential" guys this franchise has completely missed on how ungrateful and unappreciative you guys are on the one kid that has actually exceeded his potential for this franchise. 16ppg 17rpg and played in 79 games....what else do you guys freaking want? He doesn't play as hard as Ben did but what star in this league does nowadays?

There was a time Dre was just big and athletic but the last two years he's taken a big step, he's be great, he suits up every night...it just bothers me that this fan base can't get behind him. There's been a lot to complain about but Dre aint one of them. There's been a lot of factors as to why this team doesn't win but Dre aint one of them.

I agree with you here, I think it is just a situation where familiarity breeds this line of thinking. I think Pistons fans take for granted what Andre Drummond does, the guy shows up every night, does all the garbage work for the team and seems to add something each year. He's underrated by Pistons fans for what he does, and honestly the organization I don't think has done him any favors the way they have developed him. But I'm pretty sure we will miss him quite a bit when he's gone.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#31 » by flow » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:19 pm

DTP wrote:
The Moose wrote:
DTP wrote:It blows my mind with how many "potential" guys this franchise has completely missed on how ungrateful and unappreciative you guys are on the one kid that has actually exceeded his potential for this franchise. 16ppg 17rpg and played in 79 games....what else do you guys freaking want? He doesn't play as hard as Ben did but what star in this league does nowadays?

There was a time Dre was just big and athletic but the last two years he's taken a big step, he's be great, he suits up every night...it just bothers me that this fan base can't get behind him. There's been a lot to complain about but Dre aint one of them. There's been a lot of factors as to why this team doesn't win but Dre aint one of them.


Which of the best teams in the league have one of the top 2 best/highest paid players playing Center? 76ers and Nuggets is all I can think of, and both of those players have completely different games to Drummond. Paying a player like Drummond just isn't a winning formula in todays game. I'd much rather we just sign a league average center, and upgrade the wings.


That argument only holds wait if you were able to put Embiid or Jokic in this same position and they'd turn the team into title contenders.....with either case, this team would probably be exactly where it is now.


Let me ask you this -

Would the Sixers be just as good if they replaced Embiid with Drummond?

Would the Nuggets be just as good if they replaced Jokic with Drummond?

Would the Warriors be just as good if they replaced Green with Drummond?

.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#32 » by Manocad » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:35 pm

flow wrote:
DTP wrote:
The Moose wrote:
Which of the best teams in the league have one of the top 2 best/highest paid players playing Center? 76ers and Nuggets is all I can think of, and both of those players have completely different games to Drummond. Paying a player like Drummond just isn't a winning formula in todays game. I'd much rather we just sign a league average center, and upgrade the wings.


That argument only holds wait if you were able to put Embiid or Jokic in this same position and they'd turn the team into title contenders.....with either case, this team would probably be exactly where it is now.


Let me ask you this -

Would the Sixers be just as good if they replaced Embiid with Drummond?

Would the Nuggets be just as good if they replaced Jokic with Drummond?

Would the Warriors be just as good if they replaced Green with Drummond?

.

Ooh ooh ooh—I know this one!

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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#33 » by Neptune » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:04 pm

We lose Drummond, I'm gone! Plenty of fans will leave too!
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#34 » by Neptune » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:10 pm

theBigLip wrote:I think we have two plausible paths:

1. We play it out with the team we have, DO NOT trade any future first round picks for a missing piece, and be in the 5-8 range in the playoffs. Or...

2. Trade the Big 3 by the deadline. In spite of his contract, Blake has positive value. Dre and Reggie are both expiring and should be having a good season for their contract year. I think they will both have positive value. Trade them for younger players with potential on good contracts and picks, maybe a few expirings as well if need to balance the trade.

Regardless of the path we take, unless we do something stupid this season, we should have flexibility next summer and can finally start building things right. And it doesn't matter if the free agency class next year is weak - keep the flexibility into the season and next summer. Just no more stupid contracts.

Lol, building things right with what direction in the front office? Let's me guess, we'll trade Drummond for a young guy that will give us 17pts and 16rebs? Also, which guy in the front office do we have that can find talent in the draft? And when did we become a "preferred destination"?

Yall acting like our front office actually is good at trades and draft picks. Since Dumars left we've been average.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#35 » by Neptune » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:11 pm

Drwho17 wrote:I predict the Pistons will resign Drummond at 30 mill per year.

I hope so!
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#36 » by DTP » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:34 pm

flow wrote:
DTP wrote:
The Moose wrote:
Which of the best teams in the league have one of the top 2 best/highest paid players playing Center? 76ers and Nuggets is all I can think of, and both of those players have completely different games to Drummond. Paying a player like Drummond just isn't a winning formula in todays game. I'd much rather we just sign a league average center, and upgrade the wings.


That argument only holds wait if you were able to put Embiid or Jokic in this same position and they'd turn the team into title contenders.....with either case, this team would probably be exactly where it is now.


Let me ask you this -

Would the Sixers be just as good if they replaced Embiid with Drummond?

Would the Nuggets be just as good if they replaced Jokic with Drummond?

Would the Warriors be just as good if they replaced Green with Drummond?

.


Dre is a much different player than all three of those guys and to my point, the Sixers & Nuggets rosters are built around the strengths and weaknesses of Embiid and Jokic. What Jokic is doing is generational....there's no center that has ever been the contributor he is for the Nuggets and if Embiid was in shape and healthy, he'd be one of the best centers to ever play the game. This is what we're comparing Dre to.....we didn't do that for Ben, we didn't expect him to be KG, Duncan, Shaq, etc but instead we appreciated him for what he did. That's my biggest point....of course Dre has flaws, all players do. But the fact that he's still a monster, putting up monster stats....coming to play every single night and for some reason the fan base just doesn't appreciate it.

In November 2017, fourth game of the season Embiid completely punked Dre and it was the most unprofessional performance I ever seen in my life. For the first time in my life I was serious about walking away from this organization as a fan....it was a real low point. At that point I wasn't high on Dre either...he was just big and athletic so he was easily able to get his 12/13. But since that game against the Sixers and Embiid, Dre has really changed and you can tell by looking at the stats and the eye test. I appreciate the hell out of the last two seasons he put up. His offense sometimes if outright sad to watch....I get it, but Ben's was too. We all absolutely loved Ben though, for who he was.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#37 » by flow » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:33 am

DTP wrote:
flow wrote:
DTP wrote:
That argument only holds wait if you were able to put Embiid or Jokic in this same position and they'd turn the team into title contenders.....with either case, this team would probably be exactly where it is now.


Let me ask you this -

Would the Sixers be just as good if they replaced Embiid with Drummond?

Would the Nuggets be just as good if they replaced Jokic with Drummond?

Would the Warriors be just as good if they replaced Green with Drummond?

.


Dre is a much different player than all three of those guys and to my point, the Sixers & Nuggets rosters are built around the strengths and weaknesses of Embiid and Jokic. What Jokic is doing is generational....there's no center that has ever been the contributor he is for the Nuggets and if Embiid was in shape and healthy, he'd be one of the best centers to ever play the game. This is what we're comparing Dre to.....we didn't do that for Ben, we didn't expect him to be KG, Duncan, Shaq, etc but instead we appreciated him for what he did. That's my biggest point....of course Dre has flaws, all players do. But the fact that he's still a monster, putting up monster stats....coming to play every single night and for some reason the fan base just doesn't appreciate it.

In November 2017, fourth game of the season Embiid completely punked Dre and it was the most unprofessional performance I ever seen in my life. For the first time in my life I was serious about walking away from this organization as a fan....it was a real low point. At that point I wasn't high on Dre either...he was just big and athletic so he was easily able to get his 12/13. But since that game against the Sixers and Embiid, Dre has really changed and you can tell by looking at the stats and the eye test. I appreciate the hell out of the last two seasons he put up. His offense sometimes if outright sad to watch....I get it, but Ben's was too. We all absolutely loved Ben though, for who he was.


But you're the one who was comparing Drummond to Embiid & Jokic.

The Moose initially referenced them as two centers who are the best players on very good teams and hence worthy of top dollar. Then you lumped them in with Drummond by saying that these Pistons teams would likely have faired no better with either of them at center instead of Drummond.

That's why my questions to you were about those players. Making the comparisons from a different angle.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#38 » by King Bugs » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:43 am

DTP wrote:It blows my mind with how many "potential" guys this franchise has completely missed on how ungrateful and unappreciative you guys are on the one kid that has actually exceeded his potential for this franchise. 16ppg 17rpg and played in 79 games....what else do you guys freaking want? He doesn't play as hard as Ben did but what star in this league does nowadays?


Umm, effort, defensive awareness, hustle, rim protection, intangibles, winning? The things Andre defenders never bring up because they can't. Whole argument just revolves around his boxscore numbers, he's so incredibly overrated I can't stand it.
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#39 » by vege » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:09 am

Neptune wrote:We lose Drummond, I'm gone! Plenty of fans will leave too!


Is that a promise?
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Re: Big Decisions at the Trade Deadline 

Post#40 » by Neptune » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:18 am

vege wrote:
Neptune wrote:We lose Drummond, I'm gone! Plenty of fans will leave too!


Is that a promise?

100% promise. I'm tired of this organization making dumb @ss decisions.

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