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Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread

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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#401 » by Invictus88 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:06 pm

Crymson wrote:
Billl wrote:Nobody is giving up a lottery pick for Luke. We might be able to get a late first rounder. Maybe. He's got to show he is healthy to get any real value back for him. Even then, he wouldn't bring back a 2021 lotto pick.


The Suns were willing to give up a protected lottery pick for Luke at the deadline, so I find your certainty on this issue to be a tad puzzling. From all outward indications, he would most likely be on Phoenix's roster now but for the protections the Suns were asking.

Invictus88 wrote:So I'd much rather flip him at the All star break for a pick in 2021 than now. He hasn't shown to be fully healthy so his value now is low. And this draft is weak.


His value is what it is, and will plummet if his knees give him trouble for the fourth time in four seasons. He also has more value right now than he would at the deadline, as he has an entire year left on his contract; he's on a low salary for the upcoming season, will provide a full season's worth of value, and will provide an extended period in which his team can gauge his value and, if applicable, attempt to extend him before he hits free agency.

It's unlikely that anyone will be giving up a lottery pick or comparable asset for Luke at the deadline, no matter the situation, in part because he could end up a rental and in part because anyone inclined to trade for him will probably not have either one to give.

There's no reason to keep him.


A non-lottery pick in a strong 2021 draft can be thought of as roughly equivalent to a #10 in a much weaker 2020 draft. A non-lottery team looking for shooting help down the stretch is a very plausible trade scenario; provided Luke proves he's healthy.

And on that note, I agree with Bill on this. Nobody has seen or heard anything w/regards to Luke for several months. So what at first was just 'tendonitis' may end up being something more chronic. Nobody knows. And no GM is going to risk their job trading a first round pick without knowing what they would get in return. He needs to demonstrate health before anyone agrees to anything.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#402 » by Crymson » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:05 am

Invictus88 wrote:
A non-lottery pick in a strong 2021 draft can be thought of as roughly equivalent to a #10 in a much weaker 2020 draft.


I don't really think that's valid. No matter the draft, the odds are against the #25 pick developing into an NBA rotation player. And those are the teams that will be willing to dump a 1st for a potential rental who won't put them over the top.

A non-lottery team looking for shooting help down the stretch is a very plausible trade scenario; provided Luke proves he's healthy.


Sure, and the Pistons will probably get less then than they'd get now. Look through the trade rolls for any non-contender who trades a pick for shooting at the deadline. I think Mirotic is the only instance in recent memory, and that was a bad trade that did turn into a lottery pick.

And on that note, I agree with Bill on this. Nobody has seen or heard anything w/regards to Luke for several months. So what at first was just 'tendonitis' may end up being something more chronic. Nobody knows.


It's been long since noted that Luke had been cleared to play in the very next game had the season not been shut down. He's healthy. And his tendinitis might well become something more chronic. The data was already there. The Suns were interested nonetheless.

And, of course, Kennard risks obliterating his value if he loses more time to tendinitis next season. His value won't rise much by staying with the team, and is more likely to decline. And if he's got the same injury yet again, his value will bomb.

And no GM is going to risk their job trading a first round pick without knowing what they would get in return. He needs to demonstrate health before anyone agrees to anything.


Clearly Phoenix was willing, so that claim is factually untrue.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#403 » by Pharaoh » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:29 am

The Suns are known to have one of the best medical staffs in the league and since they were interested in Luke prior to the deadline one would assume they've done their homework.

IMO they need to start actually winning games. Luke can help far more than waiting a year or 2 (or 3) on the #10 pick to blossom.

The problem at the deadline were the protections the Suns wanted to put on the pick. Once the Lotto order is decided that should change...although Weaver may not want to deal Luke at all!

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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#404 » by NYPiston » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:42 am

Manocad wrote:
NYPiston wrote:.

I don't get that feeling. I think that while the organization won't say tank/rebuild out of respect for Blake and Rose, i.e. publicly admit the team is basically just throwing their (Blake's/Rose's) seasons away, the organization has recognized that the team is far more than one impact player away given not only relative to where the team is at even with a healthy and productive Blake AND Rose, but the inevitability that one of the two or both are going to miss time, and likely not in the sense of a game here and there that can be overlooked.

Not to mention, look at it this way...even if Blake and Rose stay healthy, play 70 games or so and produce the way they can when healthy, this team is still a 7-8 seed. Add one more impact player and the team gets to what...a 5-6 seed? And they get bounced in the second round, Blake and Rose are gone anyway, and now the team has locked up an impact player long term (why else would that player come here otherwise?) while being back to a 20-25 draft position. That smells like jumping right back on the treadmill to me.

I think that more and more as players continue to operate under the umbrellas of banding together to nearly guarantee a championship run, then run off and get that monster contract, you're going to see teams continue to accept 3-4 years of sucking and developing young players until they get to that point where 2-3 stars say, "You know what? Looking at that nice young core that Detroit has, if we take less money to make it affordable, all three of us could go there, win a championship with a good shot at 1 or 2 more, then do whatever we want." Then they leave Detroit and the cycle starts all over again. Simply put, I think you see more and more of the suck suck suck suck, decent core, add stars and win a championship, maybe another, stars leave, suck suck suck suck cycle throughout the league.


The bolded is exactly what I'm talking about as a potential scenario next season.
With the Weaver hire maybe things will change but as long as Griffin and Rose are relatively healthy (even if they only play 55-60 games each), this team will be in the mix for a final playoff spot because the east is THAT bad after the top 7.
I know they took steps towards rebuilding last season but that was only because injuries destroyed the team from the very beginning otherwise, Jackson and Drummond wouldn't have been traded. It was an unintentional rebuild.

As long as Griffin and Rose are Pistons, I can't see the team going into the tank unless they get injured again which is certainly possible if not probable but far from guaranteed. I just see the word "rebuild" thrown around too loosely and the Pistons tanking for another high pick next season. I just don't see it but we'll see. The Weaver hire has me hopeful but I think it may take another year to get the true rebuild we've long desired.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#405 » by Manocad » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:04 am

NYPiston wrote:
Manocad wrote:
NYPiston wrote:.

I don't get that feeling. I think that while the organization won't say tank/rebuild out of respect for Blake and Rose, i.e. publicly admit the team is basically just throwing their (Blake's/Rose's) seasons away, the organization has recognized that the team is far more than one impact player away given not only relative to where the team is at even with a healthy and productive Blake AND Rose, but the inevitability that one of the two or both are going to miss time, and likely not in the sense of a game here and there that can be overlooked.

Not to mention, look at it this way...even if Blake and Rose stay healthy, play 70 games or so and produce the way they can when healthy, this team is still a 7-8 seed. Add one more impact player and the team gets to what...a 5-6 seed? And they get bounced in the second round, Blake and Rose are gone anyway, and now the team has locked up an impact player long term (why else would that player come here otherwise?) while being back to a 20-25 draft position. That smells like jumping right back on the treadmill to me.

I think that more and more as players continue to operate under the umbrellas of banding together to nearly guarantee a championship run, then run off and get that monster contract, you're going to see teams continue to accept 3-4 years of sucking and developing young players until they get to that point where 2-3 stars say, "You know what? Looking at that nice young core that Detroit has, if we take less money to make it affordable, all three of us could go there, win a championship with a good shot at 1 or 2 more, then do whatever we want." Then they leave Detroit and the cycle starts all over again. Simply put, I think you see more and more of the suck suck suck suck, decent core, add stars and win a championship, maybe another, stars leave, suck suck suck suck cycle throughout the league.


The bolded is exactly what I'm talking about as a potential scenario next season.
With the Weaver hire maybe things will change but as long as Griffin and Rose are relatively healthy (even if they only play 55-60 games each), this team will be in the mix for a final playoff spot because the east is THAT bad after the top 7.
I know they took steps towards rebuilding last season but that was only because injuries destroyed the team from the very beginning otherwise, Jackson and Drummond wouldn't have been traded. It was an unintentional rebuild.

As long as Griffin and Rose are Pistons, I can't see the team going into the tank unless they get injured again which is certainly possible if not probable but far from guaranteed. I just see the word "rebuild" thrown around too loosely and the Pistons tanking for another high pick next season. I just don't see it but we'll see. The Weaver hire has me hopeful but I think it may take another year to get the true rebuild we've long desired.

With Blake and Rose at their best this team still has zero chance of getting past Milwaukee. The days of “just make the playoffs and anything can happen” are beyond long gone—they never were. No 8 seed has ever won an NBA championship and the last one to reach the Finals was the 1999 Knicks.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#406 » by vic » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:32 am

This team has two financial timelines.
1 connected to Blake and DRose
1 connected to Sekou and this years pick

Luke fits with Phoenix's timeline a little bit better. They want to get their star some scoring & ballhandling help.

If we can keep Wood at a good price we can make him fit with the younger timeline, but I dont think the Pistons want to pay both Wood and Kennard long term. That's my opinion.

I'd love to get Ball/Okoro/Edwards AND Vassel/Nesmith with Phoenix's pick.
SVG has castrated the Pistons franchise with bad drafting, bad trades, and overpaying offensive minded players.

Gonna take Ed Stefanski a while to dig out of this hole.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#407 » by NYPiston » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:44 pm

Manocad wrote:
NYPiston wrote:
Manocad wrote:I don't get that feeling. I think that while the organization won't say tank/rebuild out of respect for Blake and Rose, i.e. publicly admit the team is basically just throwing their (Blake's/Rose's) seasons away, the organization has recognized that the team is far more than one impact player away given not only relative to where the team is at even with a healthy and productive Blake AND Rose, but the inevitability that one of the two or both are going to miss time, and likely not in the sense of a game here and there that can be overlooked.

Not to mention, look at it this way...even if Blake and Rose stay healthy, play 70 games or so and produce the way they can when healthy, this team is still a 7-8 seed. Add one more impact player and the team gets to what...a 5-6 seed? And they get bounced in the second round, Blake and Rose are gone anyway, and now the team has locked up an impact player long term (why else would that player come here otherwise?) while being back to a 20-25 draft position. That smells like jumping right back on the treadmill to me.

I think that more and more as players continue to operate under the umbrellas of banding together to nearly guarantee a championship run, then run off and get that monster contract, you're going to see teams continue to accept 3-4 years of sucking and developing young players until they get to that point where 2-3 stars say, "You know what? Looking at that nice young core that Detroit has, if we take less money to make it affordable, all three of us could go there, win a championship with a good shot at 1 or 2 more, then do whatever we want." Then they leave Detroit and the cycle starts all over again. Simply put, I think you see more and more of the suck suck suck suck, decent core, add stars and win a championship, maybe another, stars leave, suck suck suck suck cycle throughout the league.


The bolded is exactly what I'm talking about as a potential scenario next season.
With the Weaver hire maybe things will change but as long as Griffin and Rose are relatively healthy (even if they only play 55-60 games each), this team will be in the mix for a final playoff spot because the east is THAT bad after the top 7.
I know they took steps towards rebuilding last season but that was only because injuries destroyed the team from the very beginning otherwise, Jackson and Drummond wouldn't have been traded. It was an unintentional rebuild.

As long as Griffin and Rose are Pistons, I can't see the team going into the tank unless they get injured again which is certainly possible if not probable but far from guaranteed. I just see the word "rebuild" thrown around too loosely and the Pistons tanking for another high pick next season. I just don't see it but we'll see. The Weaver hire has me hopeful but I think it may take another year to get the true rebuild we've long desired.

With Blake and Rose at their best this team still has zero chance of getting past Milwaukee. The days of “just make the playoffs and anything can happen” are beyond long gone—they never were. No 8 seed has ever won an NBA championship and the last one to reach the Finals was the 1999 Knicks.


Not my point.
Making the playoffs for the sake of being Buck stomped is not a rebuild and with Blake and Rose here that's still a possibility.
This is surely not a bottom 5 and probably not a bottom 10 team if those two play even close to their best.

As far as Kennard is concerned, I'd aim for a 2021 1st if they're willing to trade him. This draft just isn't that interesting. I'd rather take the chance of him bouncing back and building value than trade him for a mediocre 1st in a poor draft.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#408 » by Manocad » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:35 pm

NYPiston wrote:
Manocad wrote:
NYPiston wrote:
The bolded is exactly what I'm talking about as a potential scenario next season.
With the Weaver hire maybe things will change but as long as Griffin and Rose are relatively healthy (even if they only play 55-60 games each), this team will be in the mix for a final playoff spot because the east is THAT bad after the top 7.
I know they took steps towards rebuilding last season but that was only because injuries destroyed the team from the very beginning otherwise, Jackson and Drummond wouldn't have been traded. It was an unintentional rebuild.

As long as Griffin and Rose are Pistons, I can't see the team going into the tank unless they get injured again which is certainly possible if not probable but far from guaranteed. I just see the word "rebuild" thrown around too loosely and the Pistons tanking for another high pick next season. I just don't see it but we'll see. The Weaver hire has me hopeful but I think it may take another year to get the true rebuild we've long desired.

With Blake and Rose at their best this team still has zero chance of getting past Milwaukee. The days of “just make the playoffs and anything can happen” are beyond long gone—they never were. No 8 seed has ever won an NBA championship and the last one to reach the Finals was the 1999 Knicks.


Not my point.
Making the playoffs for the sake of being Buck stomped is not a rebuild and with Blake and Rose here that's still a possibility.
This is surely not a bottom 5 and probably not a bottom 10 team if those two play even close to their best.

As far as Kennard is concerned, I'd aim for a 2021 1st if they're willing to trade him. This draft just isn't that interesting. I'd rather take the chance of him bouncing back and building value than trade him for a mediocre 1st in a poor draft.

My point is that I don’t think the organization believes adding a player to go with a hopefully healthy Blake and Rose in order to grab a low playoff seed is the right direction for the team.

As far as Luke goes, he’s worth a lottery pick at best when healthy. If someone offered ANY first rounder for him right now I’d take it, because the downside is that his knees continue to be a problem and he becomes a 12 MPG bench player.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#409 » by Uncle Mxy » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:49 am

I don't think a healthy contemporary Blake + Rose + "player to be named later" is necessarily a playoff team. I'd like for us to build some consistent success -- a couple playoffs in a row, maybe even a win in a playoff game <gasp> -- before deciding that we're a treadmill team that has to blow it up to have a shot.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#410 » by Manocad » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:22 pm

Uncle Mxy wrote:I don't think a healthy contemporary Blake + Rose + "player to be named later" is necessarily a playoff team. I'd like for us to build some consistent success -- a couple playoffs in a row, maybe even a win in a playoff game <gasp> -- before deciding that we're a treadmill team that has to blow it up to have a shot.

Agreed. It seems there's an opinion out there that it's not only possible that Blake stays healthy, Rose stays healthy, and that another impact player would even be willing to come to the Pistons but that if he did that catapults the team into a 4-5 playoff seed thus it's a scenario which should be pursued.

Those are a lot of assumptions. Even with a healthy Blake and Rose, this team has no clear identity yet, i.e. they're not winning games because the whole is better than the sum of the parts. They're not exactly a well-oiled machine with issues; they're a team with a LOT of issues that hasn't even figured out yet how to run the machine. Their two star players, while quality guys who definitely can play when healthy, are guaranteed to break down again. Chronic injury issues don't suddenly go away, especially as a player gets older. Blake is here for two more years and Rose is here for one, so the window is only one year anyway, and I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the team immediately catapults to real contender status because one impact player got added. What have you got after Blake, Rose and another impact player? A slow shooting guard with knee problems, and he's the fourth best player on the team. Wood is a nice player to consider as part of the future but going into next season would still be a bench player for a true contender. And every other player on the team is a step down (or a number of steps) from there.

The Pistons right now are a team that wins some games based on talent alone, and given Blake and Rose's situations that talent level isn't sustainable over the next two years. Like you said, build something up. Keep Blake and Rose somewhat limited and healthy as possible so maybe they return something when they go. But the rest of the team, while having some nice young pieces that look like they could develop into something, is a long way from contender status. I personally see no logical reason whatsoever to look at next season as a "go for it" year rather than just riding out Rose and Blake, drafting and building during those two years, then evaluating where the team is at after the 2021-22 season in order to determine if it's time to make big moves or keep building.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#411 » by Billl » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:50 pm

Blake is 31. Rose is 31. We aren't building anything around them. Even without their injury histories, they aren't going to be viable building blocks 2 years from now. Even if you thought those guys were ideal building blocks right now, there is just no window to build around them.

Anyway, the die is cast. Casey is already admitting they have switched to a youth development movement. We traded 2 starters for nothing. The only reason rose is still here is that we couldn't get a 1st rounder for him at the deadline. The only reason blake is that it would actually cost us assets to move him.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#412 » by LaSheed » Wed Aug 5, 2020 1:56 pm

Been really digging into Deni Avdija and & Haliburton. Even starting to come around on LaMelo just based off star potential.

Deni is really starting to tickle my fancy.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#413 » by edmunder_prc » Wed Aug 5, 2020 5:07 pm

Uncle Mxy wrote:I don't think a healthy contemporary Blake + Rose + "player to be named later" is necessarily a playoff team. I'd like for us to build some consistent success -- a couple playoffs in a row, maybe even a win in a playoff game <gasp> -- before deciding that we're a treadmill team that has to blow it up to have a shot.



Blake and Rose cant even play together. They both need the ball in their hand constantly. Its their whole game.

Neither shoots the ball at an elite level. Blake has such an ugly back down, spin, toss up game. Rose needs everyone to stand on the outside waiting for his pass that most likely is not coming, Rose wants his and he is a better scorer than passer anyway.

The whole idea doesnt add up to begin with. The "player to be named later" would need to be Durant from 4 years ago for the team to make sense.

This team is awful and put together in a way that everyone should understand has no future.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#414 » by edmunder_prc » Wed Aug 5, 2020 5:13 pm

vic wrote:This team has two financial timelines.
1 connected to Blake and DRose
1 connected to Sekou and this years pick

Luke fits with Phoenix's timeline a little bit better. They want to get their star some scoring & ballhandling help.

If we can keep Wood at a good price we can make him fit with the younger timeline, but I dont think the Pistons want to pay both Wood and Kennard long term. That's my opinion.

I'd love to get Ball/Okoro/Edwards AND Vassel/Nesmith with Phoenix's pick.


Exactly and well said vic.

Pistons have two timelines and the first timeline - Blake & Rose - is out.

The second timeline is that Sekou becomes Siakam. Plus youth like Wood.

Siakam/Sekou --- Wood ---- Bruce Brown?

The rest of the team is really bad or the contracts dont make sense. Kennard isnt good enough to get paid. End of story.

Svi is what? Not a starter. So a backup SF? A backup SG? I watched most of the games before the pandemic and Svi is too slow to guard the elite SG that can fly around the court and not strong enough to guard the really good SF. He can shoot though. If he were taller or stronger he would be a really poor man backup stretch PF.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#415 » by chrbal » Wed Aug 5, 2020 9:34 pm

Svi is a potentially good shooting wing on a cheap contract (please tell me we picked up his option for next season at $1.6 million) who makes sense regardless of who we draft and whether we are rebuilding properly( please) or not.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#416 » by MotownMadness » Thu Aug 6, 2020 3:07 am

chrbal wrote:Svi is a potentially good shooting wing on a cheap contract (please tell me we picked up his option for next season at $1.6 million) who makes sense regardless of who we draft and whether we are rebuilding properly( please) or not.

No way they dont pick up his option
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#417 » by vic » Thu Aug 6, 2020 9:34 pm

Just dropping in here to say that Isaac Okoro was not just his teams best defender, but by the end of the year he was their closer and minus 1 bad game against LSU he shot 38% from 3 over his last 9 games.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#418 » by rmfc » Thu Aug 6, 2020 10:16 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
chrbal wrote:Svi is a potentially good shooting wing on a cheap contract (please tell me we picked up his option for next season at $1.6 million) who makes sense regardless of who we draft and whether we are rebuilding properly( please) or not.

No way they dont pick up his option


Agreed. It'd be idiotic to not pick up the option on Svi.
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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#419 » by Pharaoh » Fri Aug 7, 2020 9:22 am

vic wrote:Just dropping in here to say that Isaac Okoro was not just his teams best defender, but by the end of the year he was their closer and minus 1 bad game against LSU he shot 38% from 3 over his last 9 games.
That's one of the reasons I've been high on him from the start.

He actually improved offensively over the limited season but still held it down defensively and from all reports has all the intangibles you want in a Piston.

The term "restore" has been thrown around by the new FO - Okoro seems like a perfect fit for that. If not him Okongwu for a lot of the same reasons.

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Re: Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread 

Post#420 » by Kilo » Fri Aug 7, 2020 5:53 pm

I'd rather have the 8th pick than the 1st pick given the difference is $20M over the length of their rookie deals. And I don't think it's worth $20M to have your pick of the top 8 players in this draft.

Draft night is going to be wild.

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