Game 21: Detroit Pistons 7-13 @ Cleveland Cavaliers 5-14 Tue. 7:00PM

[DarkSyde]

Pistons are actually playing pretty good team ball.

[davidvolumes]

Sekou name no longer appears on the Grand Rapids Drive roster

[JohnReese]

We are an above average PG from being a legit team. If we want to compete I would check how open the Warriors would be on trading Russell for the first round pick. Russell has 4 years of contract.

Reggie+Brown+Maker+1st x Russell

It gives flexibility to the Warriors and secure and Top3 pick for them.

Russell-Kennard-Snell-Griffin-Drummond
Rose-Galloway-Svi-Morris-Wood

Sounds good. For the next season, Sekou should be ready to take Snell minutes.

[GreekAlex]

We are an above average PG from being a legit team. If we want to compete I would check how open the Warriors would be on trading Russell for the first round pick. Russell has 4 years of contract.

Reggie+Brown+Maker+1st x Russell

It gives flexibility to the Warriors and secure and Top3 pick for them.

Russell-Kennard-Snell-Griffin-Drummond
Rose-Galloway-Svi-Morris-Wood

Sounds good. For the next season, Sekou should be ready to take Snell minutes.

I have a feeling that if that’s all it took to pry D-Lo away from the Warriors, we’d get outbid.

Didn’t the Warriors loose 2 FRPs acquiring him? 1 to Brooklyn and another to Memphis to unload Iggy?

[Canadafan]

Go Pistons

[BadMofoPimp]

Sekou name no longer appears on the Grand Rapids Drive roster

Ya, he been waived!

[Manocad]

We are an above average PG from being a legit team.

And after that, one Blake Griffin sore knee away from being a .500 team that may or may not make the playoffs.

Here’s the thing with that “go for broke while we have Blake” idea—Blake IS going to go down. It’s not a matter of if, but when and for how long. So you get that legit point guard, lock him in for a few years, Blake continues to battle injuries, DRose does too, the rest of the young or very average players continue to have mostly average, occasionally below average and occasionally good games, and we get treated to three more years of .500 teams that either just miss the playoffs or get curb stomped in the first round if they do.

This is no longer a league where a #8 seed competes for anything; the top teams are just too damn good. Look at Milwaukee, for example. Their top four players are an MVP candidate, a top tier shooting guard, a solid journeyman point guard, and a solid journeyman center. By comparison the Pistons have an oft-injured star forward, a center with an attitude problem, a good young shooting guard and an oft-injured former star point guard. Stick a legit point guard in there and the Pistons are still not close to matching the Bucks man to man. 45-50 win teams are NOT winning championships in today’s NBA; 60+ win teams are.

Admittedly, I am a championship or bust guy (i.e. “just get to the playoffs and anything can happen” is NOT in my vocabulary) because it’s clear that in today’s NBA (and other sports too) it’s HIGHLY unlikely that a team will ever reach dynasty status again where the basic core sticks together and you’re just adding/subtracting a piece here and there to remain at an elite level. Players now get their one championship and then they want to get paid. So plan for that.

[BadMofoPimp]

We are an above average PG from being a legit team.

And after that, one Blake Griffin sore knee away from being a .500 team that may or may not make the playoffs.

Here’s the thing with that “go for broke while we have Blake” idea—Blake IS going to go down. It’s not a matter of if, but when and for how long. So you get that legit point guard, lock him in for a few years, Blake continues to battle injuries, DRose does too, the rest of the young or very average players continue to have mostly average, occasionally below average and occasionally good games, and we get treated to three more years of .500 teams that either just miss the playoffs or get curb stomped in the first round if they do.

This is no longer a league where a #8 seed competes for anything; the top teams are just too damn good. Look at Milwaukee, for example. Their top four players are an MVP candidate, a top tier shooting guard, a solid journeyman point guard, and a solid journeyman center. By comparison the Pistons have an oft-injured star forward, a center with an attitude problem, a good young shooting guard and an oft-injured former star point guard. Stick a legit point guard in there and the Pistons are still not close to matching the Bucks man to man. 45-50 win teams are NOT winning championships in today’s NBA; 60+ win teams are.

Admittedly, I am a championship or bust guy (i.e. “just get to the playoffs and anything can happen” is NOT in my vocabulary) because it’s clear that in today’s NBA (and other sports too) it’s HIGHLY unlikely that a team will ever reach dynasty status again where the basic core sticks together and you’re just adding/subtracting a piece here and there to remain at an elite level. Players now get their one championship and then they want to get paid. So plan for that.

I see you are part of the "ME" generation where you expect to get what you want. But, teams are not either bottom or instantly at top. There has to be a time where they grow and go through being a 40-50 win team before either growing further or falling apart. It happens. We here in Detroit remember the 80's where the Pistons barely made it to the 1st round, then lost. Next year, made it to 2nd round, then lost to Hawks. Next year made it to conference finals against Boston and lost. Then, next year make it past Boston to the finals and lost etc.

You dont' just go from bottom feeder to contender. Rarely happens and people should stop expecting it. We develop talent that we either keep or develop to trade. But, you don't just give up on talent because we are only going to win 45 games. That talent could be a piece or a chip towards building a contender. Not an excuse to start over again and again and again and again for the next 10-20 years.

[El Chivo]

we never started over in the last 10 years, this is the problem.

this team is not gonna win a playoff serie even acquiring a reliable point guard. Toronto, Milwaukee, Boston and Philly would be way better the same, Indiana is better (and they're waiting for Oladipo), Miami is better.

furthermore, we don't have the asset to get a good point guard via trade and we don't have cap space.

a team flirting with luxury cap should not be one player away from being a 45 w team.

[Manocad]

We are an above average PG from being a legit team.

And after that, one Blake Griffin sore knee away from being a .500 team that may or may not make the playoffs.

Here’s the thing with that “go for broke while we have Blake” idea—Blake IS going to go down. It’s not a matter of if, but when and for how long. So you get that legit point guard, lock him in for a few years, Blake continues to battle injuries, DRose does too, the rest of the young or very average players continue to have mostly average, occasionally below average and occasionally good games, and we get treated to three more years of .500 teams that either just miss the playoffs or get curb stomped in the first round if they do.

This is no longer a league where a #8 seed competes for anything; the top teams are just too damn good. Look at Milwaukee, for example. Their top four players are an MVP candidate, a top tier shooting guard, a solid journeyman point guard, and a solid journeyman center. By comparison the Pistons have an oft-injured star forward, a center with an attitude problem, a good young shooting guard and an oft-injured former star point guard. Stick a legit point guard in there and the Pistons are still not close to matching the Bucks man to man. 45-50 win teams are NOT winning championships in today’s NBA; 60+ win teams are.

Admittedly, I am a championship or bust guy (i.e. “just get to the playoffs and anything can happen” is NOT in my vocabulary) because it’s clear that in today’s NBA (and other sports too) it’s HIGHLY unlikely that a team will ever reach dynasty status again where the basic core sticks together and you’re just adding/subtracting a piece here and there to remain at an elite level. Players now get their one championship and then they want to get paid. So plan for that.

I see you are part of the "ME" generation where you expect to get what you want. But, teams are not either bottom or instantly at top. There has to be a time where they grow and go through being a 40-50 win team before either growing further or falling apart. It happens. We here in Detroit remember the 80's where the Pistons barely made it to the 1st round, then lost. Next year, made it to 2nd round, then lost to Hawks. Next year made it to conference finals against Boston and lost. Then, next year make it past Boston to the finals and lost etc.

You dont' just go from bottom feeder to contender. Rarely happens and people should stop expecting it. We develop talent that we either keep or develop to trade. But, you don't just give up on talent because we are only going to win 45 games. That talent could be a piece or a chip towards building a contender. Not an excuse to start over again and again and again and again for the next 10-20 years.

I see you’re part of the generation that failed reading comprehension.

I am the opposite of the “me, I want it now” generation. Those are the people who are willing to mortgage the future to go all in now, and I’m not talking about all in as in getting a superstar rental who may walk after a year but gets you to 60+ wins and a legit shot at a championship. These people want to go all in because “hey, that move definitely gets us into the first round and anything can happen.”

I have clearly stated MANY times that you have to build a championship team core organically—drafting and player development—THEN put the finishing touches on with that big move that puts the team over the top. I have CONSTANTLY said that this team should save those few young and promising players and tear the rest down. Never once did I say a team can go from bottom feeder to champion in one quick stroke. But there’s a big difference between a 35-40 win team on the way up because it’s filled with young and developing players who aren’t quite up to the talent level or depth of a championship team but is moving in the right direction, and a 35-40 win team filled with aging, expensive, injuring-prone stars and inconsistent role players that you’re constantly applying band aids to because it’s on the way DOWN...and THAT’S what the Pistons are. My message is “No more band aids.” Let it bleed out and start a real rebuild.

[BadMofoPimp]

And after that, one Blake Griffin sore knee away from being a .500 team that may or may not make the playoffs.

Here’s the thing with that “go for broke while we have Blake” idea—Blake IS going to go down. It’s not a matter of if, but when and for how long. So you get that legit point guard, lock him in for a few years, Blake continues to battle injuries, DRose does too, the rest of the young or very average players continue to have mostly average, occasionally below average and occasionally good games, and we get treated to three more years of .500 teams that either just miss the playoffs or get curb stomped in the first round if they do.

This is no longer a league where a #8 seed competes for anything; the top teams are just too damn good. Look at Milwaukee, for example. Their top four players are an MVP candidate, a top tier shooting guard, a solid journeyman point guard, and a solid journeyman center. By comparison the Pistons have an oft-injured star forward, a center with an attitude problem, a good young shooting guard and an oft-injured former star point guard. Stick a legit point guard in there and the Pistons are still not close to matching the Bucks man to man. 45-50 win teams are NOT winning championships in today’s NBA; 60+ win teams are.

Admittedly, I am a championship or bust guy (i.e. “just get to the playoffs and anything can happen” is NOT in my vocabulary) because it’s clear that in today’s NBA (and other sports too) it’s HIGHLY unlikely that a team will ever reach dynasty status again where the basic core sticks together and you’re just adding/subtracting a piece here and there to remain at an elite level. Players now get their one championship and then they want to get paid. So plan for that.

I see you are part of the "ME" generation where you expect to get what you want. But, teams are not either bottom or instantly at top. There has to be a time where they grow and go through being a 40-50 win team before either growing further or falling apart. It happens. We here in Detroit remember the 80's where the Pistons barely made it to the 1st round, then lost. Next year, made it to 2nd round, then lost to Hawks. Next year made it to conference finals against Boston and lost. Then, next year make it past Boston to the finals and lost etc.

You dont' just go from bottom feeder to contender. Rarely happens and people should stop expecting it. We develop talent that we either keep or develop to trade. But, you don't just give up on talent because we are only going to win 45 games. That talent could be a piece or a chip towards building a contender. Not an excuse to start over again and again and again and again for the next 10-20 years.

I see you’re part of the generation that failed reading comprehension.

I am the opposite of the “me, I want it now” generation. Those are the people who are willing to mortgage the future to go all in now, and I’m not talking about all in as in getting a superstar rental who may walk after a year but gets you to 60+ wins and a legit shot at a championship. These people want to go all in because “hey, that move definitely gets us into the first round and anything can happen.”

I have clearly stated MANY times that you have to build a championship team core organically—drafting and player development—THEN put the finishing touches on with that big move that puts the team over the top. I have CONSTANTLY said that this team should save those few young and promising players and tear the rest down. Never once did I say a team can go from bottom feeder to champion in one quick stroke. But there’s a big difference between a 35-40 win team on the way up because it’s filled with young and developing players who aren’t quite up to the talent level or depth of a championship team but is moving in the right direction, and a 35-40 win team filled with aging, expensive, injuring-prone stars and inconsistent role players that you’re constantly applying band aids to because it’s on the way DOWN...and THAT’S what the Pistons are. My message is “No more band aids.” Let it bleed out and start a real rebuild.

I bet you truly wonder how a team like the Heat can be a top 5 team most of this season thus far while starting two young undrafted players this year while having 2 bench undrafted players playing solid minutes along with Meyers the scrub Leonard starting. Not to mention all the 2nd or late rounders who contribute to their success all without a superstar. I bet the Heat staff could produce a 50+ win team with what we have.

[Manocad]

I see you are part of the "ME" generation where you expect to get what you want. But, teams are not either bottom or instantly at top. There has to be a time where they grow and go through being a 40-50 win team before either growing further or falling apart. It happens. We here in Detroit remember the 80's where the Pistons barely made it to the 1st round, then lost. Next year, made it to 2nd round, then lost to Hawks. Next year made it to conference finals against Boston and lost. Then, next year make it past Boston to the finals and lost etc.

You dont' just go from bottom feeder to contender. Rarely happens and people should stop expecting it. We develop talent that we either keep or develop to trade. But, you don't just give up on talent because we are only going to win 45 games. That talent could be a piece or a chip towards building a contender. Not an excuse to start over again and again and again and again for the next 10-20 years.

I see you’re part of the generation that failed reading comprehension.

I am the opposite of the “me, I want it now” generation. Those are the people who are willing to mortgage the future to go all in now, and I’m not talking about all in as in getting a superstar rental who may walk after a year but gets you to 60+ wins and a legit shot at a championship. These people want to go all in because “hey, that move definitely gets us into the first round and anything can happen.”

I have clearly stated MANY times that you have to build a championship team core organically—drafting and player development—THEN put the finishing touches on with that big move that puts the team over the top. I have CONSTANTLY said that this team should save those few young and promising players and tear the rest down. Never once did I say a team can go from bottom feeder to champion in one quick stroke. But there’s a big difference between a 35-40 win team on the way up because it’s filled with young and developing players who aren’t quite up to the talent level or depth of a championship team but is moving in the right direction, and a 35-40 win team filled with aging, expensive, injuring-prone stars and inconsistent role players that you’re constantly applying band aids to because it’s on the way DOWN...and THAT’S what the Pistons are. My message is “No more band aids.” Let it bleed out and start a real rebuild.

I bet you truly wonder how a team like the Heat can be a top 5 team most of this season thus far while starting two young undrafted players this year while having 2 bench undrafted players playing solid minutes along with Meyers the scrub Leonard starting. Not to mention all the 2nd or late rounders who contribute to their success all without a superstar. I bet the Heat staff could produce a 50+ win team with what we have.

Well, let's see...

Goran Dragic - 33 years old, established NBA journeyman, signed with the Heat in 2014
Justice Winslow - 23 years old, drafted by the Heat with the 10th pick in the 2015 draft
Bam Adebayo - 22 years old, drafted by the Heat with the 14th pick in the 2017 draft
Kelly Olynyk - 28 years old, established NBA journeyman, drafted by the Mavericks with the 13th pick in the 2013 draft, signed by the Heat in 2017
Tyler Herro - 20 years old, drafted by the Heat with 13th pick in the 2019 draft
Duncan Robinson - 25 years old, undrafted in 2018, signed with the Heat and developed in the summer league
Kendrick Nunn - 24 years old, undrafted in 2018, signed by the Heat in 2019 and being developed
Jimmy Butler - 30 years old, established NBA star, signed with the Heat in 2019

So if you follow that timeline you get, in chronological order:

- started with a solid journeyman PG
- first round draft pick
- first round draft pick
- signed a sold journeyman C who was a first round draft pick
- first round draft pick
- signed a player who was then developed in the summer league
- signed a player who is being developed
- signed an established star

You just supported my argument. They drafted players, developed players, filled a need with a free agent, and signed a star to put them in contention--EXACTLY WHAT I DESCRIBED AS BEING THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT, and the process took 5 years. So no, I don't wonder a bit why the Heat are successful.

[BadMofoPimp]

I see you’re part of the generation that failed reading comprehension.

I am the opposite of the “me, I want it now” generation. Those are the people who are willing to mortgage the future to go all in now, and I’m not talking about all in as in getting a superstar rental who may walk after a year but gets you to 60+ wins and a legit shot at a championship. These people want to go all in because “hey, that move definitely gets us into the first round and anything can happen.”

I have clearly stated MANY times that you have to build a championship team core organically—drafting and player development—THEN put the finishing touches on with that big move that puts the team over the top. I have CONSTANTLY said that this team should save those few young and promising players and tear the rest down. Never once did I say a team can go from bottom feeder to champion in one quick stroke. But there’s a big difference between a 35-40 win team on the way up because it’s filled with young and developing players who aren’t quite up to the talent level or depth of a championship team but is moving in the right direction, and a 35-40 win team filled with aging, expensive, injuring-prone stars and inconsistent role players that you’re constantly applying band aids to because it’s on the way DOWN...and THAT’S what the Pistons are. My message is “No more band aids.” Let it bleed out and start a real rebuild.

I bet you truly wonder how a team like the Heat can be a top 5 team most of this season thus far while starting two young undrafted players this year while having 2 bench undrafted players playing solid minutes along with Meyers the scrub Leonard starting. Not to mention all the 2nd or late rounders who contribute to their success all without a superstar. I bet the Heat staff could produce a 50+ win team with what we have.

Well, let's see...

Goran Dragic - 33 years old, established NBA journeyman, signed with the Heat in 2014
Justice Winslow - 23 years old, drafted by the Heat with the 10th pick in the 2015 draft
Bam Adebayo - 22 years old, drafted by the Heat with the 14th pick in the 2017 draft
Kelly Olynyk - 28 years old, established NBA journeyman, drafted by the Mavericks with the 13th pick in the 2013 draft, signed by the Heat in 2017
Tyler Herro - 20 years old, drafted by the Heat with 13th pick in the 2019 draft
Duncan Robinson - 25 years old, undrafted in 2018, signed with the Heat and developed in the summer league
Kendrick Nunn - 24 years old, undrafted in 2018, signed by the Heat in 2019 and being developed
Jimmy Butler - 30 years old, established NBA star, signed with the Heat in 2019

So if you follow that timeline you get, in chronological order:

- started with a solid journeyman PG
- first round draft pick
- first round draft pick
- signed a sold journeyman C who was a first round draft pick
- first round draft pick
- signed a player who was then developed in the summer league
- signed a player who is being developed
- signed an established star


You just supported my argument. They drafted players, developed players, filled a need with a free agent, and signed a star to put them in contention--EXACTLY WHAT I DESCRIBED AS BEING THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT, and the process took 5 years. So no, I don't wonder a bit why the Heat are successful.

So, no top 10 picks or tanking involved? Did you note NO top 10 star players on that team?

[El Chivo]

Butler is one of the best 2 way players in the League, playing wing in a wing oriented league and would be our best player.

[Manocad]

I bet you truly wonder how a team like the Heat can be a top 5 team most of this season thus far while starting two young undrafted players this year while having 2 bench undrafted players playing solid minutes along with Meyers the scrub Leonard starting. Not to mention all the 2nd or late rounders who contribute to their success all without a superstar. I bet the Heat staff could produce a 50+ win team with what we have.

Well, let's see...

Goran Dragic - 33 years old, established NBA journeyman, signed with the Heat in 2014
Justice Winslow - 23 years old, drafted by the Heat with the 10th pick in the 2015 draft
Bam Adebayo - 22 years old, drafted by the Heat with the 14th pick in the 2017 draft
Kelly Olynyk - 28 years old, established NBA journeyman, drafted by the Mavericks with the 13th pick in the 2013 draft, signed by the Heat in 2017
Tyler Herro - 20 years old, drafted by the Heat with 13th pick in the 2019 draft
Duncan Robinson - 25 years old, undrafted in 2018, signed with the Heat and developed in the summer league
Kendrick Nunn - 24 years old, undrafted in 2018, signed by the Heat in 2019 and being developed
Jimmy Butler - 30 years old, established NBA star, signed with the Heat in 2019

So if you follow that timeline you get, in chronological order:

- started with a solid journeyman PG
- first round draft pick
- first round draft pick
- signed a sold journeyman C who was a first round draft pick
- first round draft pick
- signed a player who was then developed in the summer league
- signed a player who is being developed
- signed an established star


You just supported my argument. They drafted players, developed players, filled a need with a free agent, and signed a star to put them in contention--EXACTLY WHAT I DESCRIBED AS BEING THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT, and the process took 5 years. So no, I don't wonder a bit why the Heat are successful.

So, no top 10 picks or tanking involved? Did you note NO top 10 star players on that team?

You mean other than Winslow at #10? I never said a team had to get draft picks higher than #10 in order to become a championship team. I said the team has to build through the draft, not constantly give their picks away chasing band-aids.

For the 100th time, I don't endorse tanking. Tanking is TRYING to lose. Not chasing band-aids every year (i.e. doing anything possible to squeak into the playoffs) isn't tanking. Accepting the team losing games WHILE THE PLAYERS DEVELOP isn't tanking. Notice how that Heat team wasn't chasing band-aids every year trying to squeak into the playoffs? They went five years of just letting what happens happen while their young players developed, then signed a star to put them into real contention.

EXACTLY HOW I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG THAT IT SHOULD BE DONE.

Oddly enough since you're the one who brought up the Heat, look at that team's records over the last five years. Not too different from the Pistons. The difference is the Heat were achieving that record as a team on the way UP, with young players developing and getting better. The Pistons have spent the last five years as a team on the way DOWN, constantly trying to stick band-aids over bullet holes and still struggling to hit .500. So similar records while having two completely different strategies, and now the Heat are contenders while the Pistons aren't jack diddly. See the difference?