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I think at this point even the most homer of homers(me) is ready to wave the proverbial white flag and hope for a miracle of miracles in this summer's draft lottery. And cross my fingers we actually hit on a draft pick for once.
My serious question is this....can you fix this?
I'm gonna need a detailed response from at least a dozen of you on how we really can fix this effed up mess we've gotten ourselves into.
I was hardcore since the bad boy days. I vividly remember heartache of the larry bird steal. We should have won in '88 but the phantom foul ruined that. 89 and 90 was glorious. 14 years later being able to experience the 2004 title in my late 20's was absolutely fantastic. Having success up till 2008 playoffs was great but I never would have imagined I'd be sitting here 15years later in between titles and our team would be such a joke. This nonsense has to end!

1990 to 2004 was ok. But now here we are in 2020. 16freakin years since our last title. And no end in sight.
Manocad, Motown, Snake, Buzzkill, El Chivo....and others. Put your GM caps on and give these clowns in our front office some insight and knowledge on how to fix things and return us to the championship. We all love this team and all have such different opinions of things out here. Give me your blueprint. What can be done and what can we do??

P.S. I've been drinking a moderate amount this holiday season lol

It can be fixed. We need ownership and a front office that agree we need to commit to a long term rebuild. Not a half ass one one. One where we land some true elite level young talent.

It does suck that if we commited to this when we first signed SVG we would most likely be looking good by now. Hell SVG would even have a job as everyone would be way more patient with a team rebuilding.

Gonna have to draft a star and then build properly around him. Thats about it at this point.

MotownMadness wrote:Gonna have to draft a star and then build properly around him. Thats about it at this point.

This draft not looking too hot though right?

Canadafan wrote:

MotownMadness wrote:Gonna have to draft a star and then build properly around him. Thats about it at this point.

This draft not looking too hot though right?

Not as far as superstar talent but still a nice draft where you can get a nice prospect all through the lottery.

Who knows though im sure someone emerges but its not a sure thing like a Zion or Davis type draft.

Blueprint? Get Gores to give up chasing the 6-8 seed would be #1.

Miami & Brooklyn are examples of how you turn it around in 2-3 years...Brooklyn did it without stud Lotto picks too.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/marksse99x.html

Doesn't look like much when you go through each transaction but they were on the upswing before signing Durant, Kyrie & Jordan.

Assuming they don't land any of those 3 they could have got someone else or a couple of dudes to continue their build.

Miami in a similar situation before signing Butler.

Toronto is another example where they picked up Siakim, OG & FVV...

Bone, King, Hall, etc gotta find those diamond in the rough kinda players. Team them with Sekou, Luke, Brown, Wood...

Rose is as good a mentor as we're likely to find...former MVP and all that.

Our problem is our foundation is non existent. We've been putting band aids on bullet wounds for years and now finally it seems we're bleeding out

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Hey where is my mention? lol
We gotta hit the reset button but its obvious Gores is fine with be stuck in the middle for some reason one pick isnt gonna do it. We need a few for the next couple years to be high so we can get so high end talent. Let Drummond walk and the rest expire or trade for some minor assets. This team has been devoid of actual good players for so long its hard to let go of the idea of trying to build around Blake but we just dont have the assets or cant trust his health its time to go a different route.

Trade Dre for expiring or even a two year contract and a 1st round pick.
Trade Blake for expiring or event a two year contract and a 1st round pick.
Work a buyout of the contract of Reggie Jackson if we can get at least a 10% savings so he can sign elsewhere, if not send him home for the year.
Trade Rose for best young talent or picks we can get.... be really bad the second half of the season giving big minutes to guys that are 27 or younger only.
Draft guys with highest ceilings and let them play next year. Consider trades that land us young talent and or picks even if we have to take on salary. Forget about FA until summer 2021 at the earliest.

Drummond & Galloway to Miami for Dragic, Johnson & their first...

Dre, Bam, Butler, Herro, Nunn,

Winslow, Galloway, Robinson, Leonard, KO

Looks interesting to me.

Heat might be aiming for 2021 free agency though

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Pharaoh wrote:Drummond & Galloway to Miami for Dragic, Johnson & their first...

Dre, Bam, Butler, Herro, Nunn,

Winslow, Galloway, Robinson, Leonard, KO

Looks interesting to me.

Heat might be aiming for 2021 free agency though

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They just traded Whiteside to start Bam they have no interest in Drummond.

Bam can play the 4...like Horford

Then play C when Dre goes to the bench.

They're essentially giving up a pick to bring Dre into the fold. Nothing else long term.

I'd love to see Dre, Bam & Butler vs Joel, Simmons & Tobias.



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Canadafan wrote:I think at this point even the most homer of homers(me) is ready to wave the proverbial white flag and hope for a miracle of miracles in this summer's draft lottery. And cross my fingers we actually hit on a draft pick for once.
My serious question is this....can you fix this?
I'm gonna need a detailed response from at least a dozen of you on how we really can fix this effed up mess we've gotten ourselves into.
I was hardcore since the bad boy days. I vividly remember heartache of the larry bird steal. We should have won in '88 but the phantom foul ruined that. 89 and 90 was glorious. 14 years later being able to experience the 2004 title in my late 20's was absolutely fantastic. Having success up till 2008 playoffs was great but I never would have imagined I'd be sitting here 15years later and our team would be such a joke. This nonsense has to end!

1990 to 2004 was ok. But now here we are in 2020. 16freakin years since our last title. And no end in sight.
Manocad, Motown, Snake, Buzzkill, El Chivo....and others. Put your GM caps on and give these clowns in our front office some insight and knowledge on how to fix things and return us to the championship. We all love this team and all have such different opinions of things out here. Give me your blueprint. What can be done and what can we do??

P.S. I've been drinking a moderate amount this holiday season lol

You know my thoughts--trade any player who has potential value to another team that wouldn't be considered part of the Pistons' future for whatever you can get in prospect players/picks. Top of the list obviously is Blake (probably never gonna happen), Dre (definitely possible), Reggie (value as an expiring), and Rose (definitely possible). Develop the young players on a proper timeline, draft well (hopefully), and look to make some free agent noise in a couple of years (hopefully).

First and foremost, GIVE UP THE "REBUILD ON THE FLY" IDEOLOGY. IT DOESN'T WORK. If you're not prepared for the team you love to suck for a few years through a proper rebuild, you haven't been paying attention to professional sports. And don't throw the "unicorns" like the Patriots at me. There are lot more examples of teams being bottom of the barrel then getting to championship level then teams never falling out of playoff contention while still getting to championship level occasionally. As professional sports have CLEARLY demonstrated in the past 20 years, never allowing the team to suck is a surefire way to stay on the treadmill.

1st step is fire Ed Stefanski and hire someone serious as our GM, untill that is done, nothing will go right. You can't possibly think that a guy who hires himself for a job will make things work.

Pharaoh wrote:Bam can play the 4...like Horford

Then play C when Dre goes to the bench.

They're essentially giving up a pick to bring Dre into the fold. Nothing else long term.

I'd love to see Dre, Bam & Butler vs Joel, Simmons & Tobias.



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Bam's been balling as a small ball 5 that's pretty similar to prime Draymond. There's no way they trade for a traditional center at this point.

Maybe Jordan wants a piece of the Dre sweepstakes, and we take back Bismack and another player along with a pick to get it done. That's probably within the reality of what Dre would actually fetch. He's really not that sought after.

Blake at this point should just relegated to the vet presence since he's untradeable at this point without attaching OUR pick to any transaction. See if he can rehab that trade value next season and just shut him down for health reasons. Really no point in even playing him if he's going to put up Josh Smith numbers night in and out.

The only pieces that may fetch any positive value that I'm sure of are probably Rose and to a lesser extent Galloway. Gallo seems like a prime candidate for a buyout, no? He'd likely be the 1st or so option for a contender to want him if we can't get a trade done and just let him go.

^^^^I feel like the Lakers would want Galloway and/or Rose

I agree with the majority here. Blowing it up is the best course here. In the NBA, at the end of the season you only want to be in one of five places. First, second or the bottom three. That's it. I don't think Gores will ever get it through his head that this is true. Building "on the fly" only works if you have a legitimate superstar or a couple of "star" players to build around. We don't have either of those.

Trade for draft picks if we can. I think Blake for a first and exp or short term contracts (2yrs or less) is possible. Dre for a first and young talent is possible. Jackson might fetch a second or two as an exp. deal. Same with Galloway and even Snell probably late picks but... Rose could get us a first or a second and a young guy.

As far as drafts go, this one seems to be fairly lackluster. But at this point I would take the risk. Ideally I would prefer to target the 2021 draft. We all know about the "double draft" 2022 is supposed to be because it will be the first year high school kids can be drafted. The theory is that it will be so much deeper of a draft because of the influx of High schoolers. But I think that the 2021 might be as good as 2022. If I were a college player that was eligible for the draft in 2021 I would want to be in that draft instead of 2022. Less competition for draft spots. I think most of the college talent that can will declare in 2021 rather than fight for a spot in the 2022 draft. Most teams are hording 2022 picks, I would try and trade for the 2021 draft instead.

I'm going to assume you can't get rid of the owner. Which is a crapshoot... because you don't know what kind of billionaire you are going to get next.

What you can control:

Trade for picks or Expire all of SVG's offensive minded guys: Blake, RJ, Luke

Draft 2-way players in the same mold as Sekou, Bruce Brown, Louis King, Jordan Bone. Keep Christian Wood.

Draft multiple 2-way wings and big guards. See who turns out the best. Let the best be the starters and set the tone for the rest.

I don't care what you do with Dre, just don't pay him any more of the salary cap. He's useful for what he is, as long as you don't overpay him.

It'll take a couple years but if you draft-2 way players for several years in a row (while refusing to overpay non-superstars), you can develop a good team and one of your draft picks will turn into star level talent/production (see Dinwiddie, Middleton, Tobias). Then you'll have some assets you can make championship decisions with.

#1 Pistons will have to be sellers at the deadline. They need to shop all their vets for future pieces (players or picks). If Pistons can't get anything positive in return they'll have to plan to let contracts expire or ride it out with unwanted guys (Blake?).

#2 No future picks or young players are traded unless we get other, better young players / picks back

#3 Any upcoming free agent spending will be either be short-term deals (ex. 1 year overpay with 2nd year team option) or value signings later in free agency. No more long term deals, paying premiums for fringe NBA players on day 1 (SVG... )

#4 Let the young players play as a priority in 2020/21. This expedites their development and puts us on track for a Top 5 pick.

I’m not sure how much you can get for our current veteran pieces. Blake is immovable, I’m against dealing anyone on a rookie deal, and I’m unsure anyone else garners anything more valuable than second rounders.

I’d see if you can leverage our expiring deals into first rounders, but don’t take any money beyond Blake’s deal. Failing in that just let guys expire.

Frankly, beyond that, I’m not sure there is a solution beyond simply saying “play younger players more” and “draft better”. Shrug.

It all starts with Gores. He is the MAIN reason we are where we are ( just like C. Illitch is why the Tigers are losing a generation of fans).

-Gores hired SVG who had a decent reputation as a coach, but no front office experience. Also, since Gores was willing to pay him $7M a season and give him both titles of coach and GM, he tells Gores what he wants to hear. " Of course we can rebuild on the fly" . . Who wouldn't agree with that if you were going to be guaranteed $35M. SVG left us with the horrible parting gift that sent us further back with the Blake trade that any smart basketball person knew was an EXTREME risk, and clueless Gores was not going to push back.

- Gores finally ends the SVG era, but quickly finds another yes man in Stefanski who has never won anywhere although he is clever enough to keep finding jobs. NBA can be an amazing place.

- The problem is can anyone have the guts to convince our ignorant, absentee owner that you have to do a rebuild. He has been paying people millions to agree with him that they can build on the fly which we all know we can't, especially with our flawed roster.. Gores has not hired anyone who has truly built anything that resembles even a conference championship. The reason we ended up with Stefanski is due to the agent buddy Gores hired and none of the smart young potential GMs wanted to job knowing the owners demands...

- Until Gores sells or he lucks into a competent GM who has the balls to tell him we need to blow up this hideous roster ( and also knows how to draft and smartly acquire assets), we will forever be in this purgatory that is going beyond a decade now....