Hot and Heavy with the Hawks (Drummond Trade Rumors go National)

[CP War Hawks]

I think ATL rightly knows Detroit is afraid Dre opts in so is just offering that relief to us.

I think you are right. Yall have to remember Schlenk had to deal with trading Dwight, and were actually lucky enough to get a 2nd rounder while absorbing the carcass of Miles Plumlee.

I understand Drummond was younger, more productive, but that archetype of big is not en vogue at all. I think OKC is dealing with similar offers on Adams. Basically any big that are liabilities at the free throw line, and/or that mid range area on out have the lowest value in the league.

I'd bet if they could shoot a decent 75% or so from the line without any 3 point ability that value would steady itself.

[DetroitPistons]

I think ATL rightly knows Detroit is afraid Dre opts in so is just offering that relief to us.

I think you are right. Yall have to remember Schlenk had to deal with trading Dwight, and were actually lucky enough to get a 2nd rounder while absorbing the carcass of Miles Plumlee.

I understand Drummond was younger, more productive, but that archetype of big is not en vogue at all. I think OKC is dealing with similar offers on Adams. Basically any big that are liabilities at the free throw line, and/or that mid range area on out have the lowest value in the league.

I'd bet if they could shoot a decent 75% or so from the line without any 3 point ability that value would steady itself.

Your second paragraph undercuts your first. Howard was a shell of himself and seemingly nearing the end of his career. I understand traditional centers have less value but Drummond is far superior than Howard was with you guys and is still very young and improving each year. At this point I'll take my chances with Drummond beginning to hit 3s next year then just throwing him away for literally nothing.

[Crymson]

Drummond has no value on the trade market. Nobody in contention who can match salaries needs him. Anyone with space can have him over the summer. And he just isn't that good. The fact that he's been the best player on the Pistons for so long is a reflection on the sad long-term state of the team, not an indication that he's a great player of his own accord. If he's the third best player on a team that has solid shooting and a high-level point guard, then that team is probably in good shape. He's got a max contract here because SVG was terrible at his job and thought he was the second coming of Dwight, or something, and also wrongly thought a team could be built around a center nowadays. It cannot.

Even getting rid of him for nothing would be a positive in its own right toward tanking properly. It would be much better than keeping him the rest of the season.

[Snakebites]

Even getting rid of him for nothing would be a positive in its own right toward tanking properly. It would be much better than keeping him the rest of the season.

I’m not sure if that.

His impact when he leaves the floor is minimal.

[Crymson]

Even getting rid of him for nothing would be a positive in its own right toward tanking properly. It would be much better than keeping him the rest of the season.

I’m not sure if that.

His impact when he leaves the floor is minimal.

If Thon takes on major minutes, the team will take a big hit. Particularly if he starts. It's more the presence of Thon than the absence of Drummond.

[Snakebites]

Even getting rid of him for nothing would be a positive in its own right toward tanking properly. It would be much better than keeping him the rest of the season.

I’m not sure if that.

His impact when he leaves the floor is minimal.

If Thon takes on major minutes, the team will take a big hit. Particularly if he starts. It's more the presence of Thon than the absence of Drummond.

So Drummond’s value is comparable to a halfway decent backup big.

[Crymson]

So Drummond’s value is comparable to a halfway decent backup big.

His value is minimal. I suspect he will be traded shortly before the deadline for peanuts, and that'll be just fine. The uneducated masses will cry bloody murder at such a "star" being traded for so little, of course, steadfastly refusing to accept that nobody has any reason to trade assets for him and that he isn't a star at all.

Or maybe the FO will turn out to be as incompetent as its predecessor, and simply refuse to trade him for anything less than the totally absurd price they're currently asking. Anything is possible with this team.

[Phobo_Phile]

I think at this point a Drummond trade isn't going to happen by the deadline. There has just been too much negative press and other teams won't want to take the PR hit. This feels lot like all the Conley talks last year around this time. There were strong rumors for ages but then nothing ever happened. Our leverage also feels a lot like Charlotte with Kemba last year. Their GM could't get a first round pick for him which is why they ultimately didn't deal him. If Kemba isn't netting you a pick, i sure don't think Drummond is going to.

[Canadafan]

Look at Okafor tonight. Dre cant stop anyone lol

[Snakebites]

Man, Drummond has done a great job building the case that he's not a difference maker these last few games.

My goodness.

[DetroitPistons]

I think at this point a Drummond trade isn't going to happen by the deadline. There has just been too much negative press and other teams won't want to take the PR hit. This feels lot like all the Conley talks last year around this time. There were strong rumors for ages but then nothing ever happened. Our leverage also feels a lot like Charlotte with Kemba last year. Their GM could't get a first round pick for him which is why they ultimately didn't deal him. If Kemba isn't netting you a pick, i sure don't think Drummond is going to.

I agree the negative attention is probably killing his value. Much of it is warranted but the fans have been at the forefront of the negative press. I'm fairly confident NBA execs read RealGM. Constantly crapping on a guy and never acknowledging his positives quickly leads to a negative narrative that is hard to overcome.

Again, not saying it isn't warranted but fans have been a bit over the top and that is most certainly contributing to that negative press.

[Snakebites]

I don't know if it's killing his value. The Hawks were never offering much beyond expirings.

I think teams watch tape. They know what's up.

[Invictus88]

I think at this point a Drummond trade isn't going to happen by the deadline. There has just been too much negative press and other teams won't want to take the PR hit. This feels lot like all the Conley talks last year around this time. There were strong rumors for ages but then nothing ever happened. Our leverage also feels a lot like Charlotte with Kemba last year. Their GM could't get a first round pick for him which is why they ultimately didn't deal him. If Kemba isn't netting you a pick, i sure don't think Drummond is going to.

I agree the negative attention is probably killing his value. Much of it is warranted but the fans have been at the forefront of the negative press. I'm fairly confident NBA execs read RealGM. Constantly crapping on a guy and never acknowledging his positives quickly leads to a negative narrative that is hard to overcome.

Again, not saying it isn't warranted but fans have been a bit over the top and that is most certainly contributing to that negative press.

You're seriously going to try to blame Drummond's lack of value on US????

Just stop.

Which is more plausible?
1. People who are paid to make personnel decisions in the millions of dollars and have teams of scouts, advisors etc at their disposal are going to ignore all of that advice (which you imply would otherwise accurately guage Dre's value) and instead trust the opinions of a few armchair hacks on an internet message board who are much more likely to pump gas for a living then manage a basketball team.

Oh and not just one GM would choose this course of action. No. ALL interested organizations in concert must be listening to us diehard fans who are destroying his value. I mean, since I and others here have such of an affect we should find a way to capitalize on all of this power bestowed upon us. We're causing MILLIONS of dollars of value to be lost with a few key presses right?

2. His value is actually that low. Nobody is offering anything of significance because the people in charge of making these decisions aren't spending their time on a public internet forum. They are on the phones. They are talking with their scout teams; their lawyers; their accountants; their advisors.

Seriously. You need to realize that you just posted that RealGM forum posters are the reason for Dre losing value in the eyes of real general managers of actual NBA teams. Then after you do that you will hopefully overcome being terrified of losing your sanity and start to reevaluate how you perceive the world.

[DetroitPistons]

I think at this point a Drummond trade isn't going to happen by the deadline. There has just been too much negative press and other teams won't want to take the PR hit. This feels lot like all the Conley talks last year around this time. There were strong rumors for ages but then nothing ever happened. Our leverage also feels a lot like Charlotte with Kemba last year. Their GM could't get a first round pick for him which is why they ultimately didn't deal him. If Kemba isn't netting you a pick, i sure don't think Drummond is going to.

I agree the negative attention is probably killing his value. Much of it is warranted but the fans have been at the forefront of the negative press. I'm fairly confident NBA execs read RealGM. Constantly crapping on a guy and never acknowledging his positives quickly leads to a negative narrative that is hard to overcome.

Again, not saying it isn't warranted but fans have been a bit over the top and that is most certainly contributing to that negative press.

You're seriously going to try to blame Drummond's lack of value on US????

Just stop.

Which is more plausible?
1. People who are paid to make personnel decisions in the millions of dollars and have teams of scouts, advisors etc at their disposal are going to ignore all of that advice (which you imply would otherwise accurately guage Dre's value) and instead trust the opinions of a few armchair hacks on an internet message board who are much more likely to pump gas for a living then manage a basketball team.

Oh and not just one GM would choose this course of action. No. ALL interested organizations in concert must be listening to us diehard fans who are destroying his value. I mean, since I and others here have such of an affect we should find a way to capitalize on all of this power bestowed upon us. We're causing MILLIONS of dollars of value to be lost with a few key presses right?

2. His value is actually that low. Nobody is offering anything of significance because the people in charge of making these decisions aren't spending their time on a public internet forum. They are on the phones. They are talking with their scout teams; their lawyers; their accountants; their advisors.

Seriously. You need to realize that you just posted that RealGM forum posters are the reason for Dre losing value in the eyes of real general managers of actual NBA teams. Then after you do that you will hopefully overcome being terrified of losing your sanity and start to reevaluate how you perceive the world.

No I didn't................ Read my post. I'm saying stop crusading so over the top hard because it contributes to a negative narrative. If you don't think a fanbase perpetually trashing a player impacts his perception around the league then we can just agree to disagree. I also said TWICE that the criticism is warranted. Relax. You are putting way more emphasis on my point then I was trying to make.

What I'm referring to is when Drummond has a dominant game, for example, and everyone still trashes the crap out of him. Like I said, It's okay to say one freaking good thing about him once in a blue moon when it's warranted. Fans treat him like he's Satan.

The same crap is happening with Kennard a bit too now.

[DetroitPistons]

I don't know if it's killing his value. The Hawks were never offering much beyond expirings.

I think teams watch tape. They know what's up.

Drummond's value is his fault for sure. I'm not trying to make excuses for him. I'm just saying that when fans demonize him so hard like they have been doing that it ends up facilitating that narrative around the league too. When I hear a fanbase trash a player like Pistons fans trash Drummond it puts up a huge red flag in my head before I even begin researching the player myself.

When Drummond drops 20/20/3/2/2 on 60% shooting and great defense it's okay to say "nice game."

[Invictus88]

I agree the negative attention is probably killing his value. Much of it is warranted but the fans have been at the forefront of the negative press. I'm fairly confident NBA execs read RealGM. Constantly crapping on a guy and never acknowledging his positives quickly leads to a negative narrative that is hard to overcome.

Again, not saying it isn't warranted but fans have been a bit over the top and that is most certainly contributing to that negative press.

You're seriously going to try to blame Drummond's lack of value on US????

Just stop.

Which is more plausible?
1. People who are paid to make personnel decisions in the millions of dollars and have teams of scouts, advisors etc at their disposal are going to ignore all of that advice (which you imply would otherwise accurately guage Dre's value) and instead trust the opinions of a few armchair hacks on an internet message board who are much more likely to pump gas for a living then manage a basketball team.

Oh and not just one GM would choose this course of action. No. ALL interested organizations in concert must be listening to us diehard fans who are destroying his value. I mean, since I and others here have such of an affect we should find a way to capitalize on all of this power bestowed upon us. We're causing MILLIONS of dollars of value to be lost with a few key presses right?

2. His value is actually that low. Nobody is offering anything of significance because the people in charge of making these decisions aren't spending their time on a public internet forum. They are on the phones. They are talking with their scout teams; their lawyers; their accountants; their advisors.

Seriously. You need to realize that you just posted that RealGM forum posters are the reason for Dre losing value in the eyes of real general managers of actual NBA teams. Then after you do that you will hopefully overcome being terrified of losing your sanity and start to reevaluate how you perceive the world.

No I didn't................ Read my post. I'm saying stop crusading so over the top hard because it contributes to a negative narrative. If you don't think a fanbase perpetually trashing a player impacts his perception around the league then we can just agree to disagree. I also said TWICE that the criticism is warranted. Relax. You are putting way more emphasis on my point then I was trying to make.

What I'm referring to is when Drummond has a dominant game, for example, and everyone still trashes the crap out of him. Like I said, It's okay to say one freaking good thing about him once in a blue moon when it's warranted. Fans treat him like he's Satan.

The same crap is happening with Kennard a bit too now.

You literally say the negative attention / narrative from fans is hurting his value; that you are pretty sure NBA execs are reading RealGM.
That *is* your post.

I don't know who you think is crusading here. There have been a bunch of trade threads recently because the trade window is open. There have been a bunch of threads about Drummond because he's been linked to trade rumors.

In these threads people have naturally assesed his value. Most have stated that they think it's in the ballpark of expirings and a lowish value pick if any because of his proximity to free agency. And lo and behold we hear that noone so far is offering more than expirings.

It's not our fault that your assessment of Dre isn't matching what actual GMs are valuing him at. But if you are going to then try and turn around and blame that on us then the only one on a crusade is you.

[Snakebites]

I don't know if it's killing his value. The Hawks were never offering much beyond expirings.

I think teams watch tape. They know what's up.

Drummond's value is his fault for sure. I'm not trying to make excuses for him. I'm just saying that when fans demonize him so hard like they have been doing that it ends up facilitating that narrative around the league too. When I hear a fanbase trash a player like Pistons fans trash Drummond it puts up a huge red flag in my head before I even begin researching the player myself.

When Drummond drops 20/20/3/2/2 on 60% shooting and great defense it's okay to say "nice game."

You...do realize that how fans value him and how teams value him have absolutely nothing to do with each other right?

Dre's value around the league is low because of his contract situation, the relevancy of a player of his type in today's NBA, the fact that his impact is lower than his stats, and the fact that he is too easily impacted by rough circumstance. Some of those things are his fault, some of them aren't.

It's certainly not because fans say mean things about him on the internet. If that wasn't what you were trying to say, this post really, really looks like it and I'll ask to to clarify, because that's just silliness. A Hawks fan might think less of Dre because of what fans say, but the Hawks organization is going to weigh many things when deciding how much they're willing to offer to acquire a player, and what fans say or think about a player's value isn't going to be on that list.

[DetroitPistons]

I don't know if it's killing his value. The Hawks were never offering much beyond expirings.

I think teams watch tape. They know what's up.

Drummond's value is his fault for sure. I'm not trying to make excuses for him. I'm just saying that when fans demonize him so hard like they have been doing that it ends up facilitating that narrative around the league too. When I hear a fanbase trash a player like Pistons fans trash Drummond it puts up a huge red flag in my head before I even begin researching the player myself.

When Drummond drops 20/20/3/2/2 on 60% shooting and great defense it's okay to say "nice game."

You...do realize that how fans value him and how teams value him have absolutely nothing to do with each other right?

Dre's value around the league is low because of his contract situation, the relevancy of a player of his type in today's NBA, the fact that his impact is lower than his stats, and the fact that he is too easily impacted by rough circumstance. Some of those things are his fault, some of them aren't.

It's certainly not because fans say mean things about him on the internet. If that wasn't what you were trying to say, this post really, really looks like it and I'll ask to to clarify, because that's just silliness. A Hawks fan might think less of Dre because of what fans say, but the Hawks organization is going to weigh many things when deciding how much they're willing to offer to acquire a player, and what fans say or think about a player's value isn't going to be on that list.

Yeah I'll clarify. You guys are both (Invictus) taking what I'm saying too far. All I'm talking about is fan perception (from RealGM and every where else). For example, I'm confident that the perpetual hatred for Drummond from the fan base played a role in the front office finally deciding to shop him. Fan perception does have influence. That's all I'm saying. Just like how voters have influential power over elected officials for example. Does that help?

[Invictus88]

Drummond's value is his fault for sure. I'm not trying to make excuses for him. I'm just saying that when fans demonize him so hard like they have been doing that it ends up facilitating that narrative around the league too. When I hear a fanbase trash a player like Pistons fans trash Drummond it puts up a huge red flag in my head before I even begin researching the player myself.

When Drummond drops 20/20/3/2/2 on 60% shooting and great defense it's okay to say "nice game."

You...do realize that how fans value him and how teams value him have absolutely nothing to do with each other right?

Dre's value around the league is low because of his contract situation, the relevancy of a player of his type in today's NBA, the fact that his impact is lower than his stats, and the fact that he is too easily impacted by rough circumstance. Some of those things are his fault, some of them aren't.

It's certainly not because fans say mean things about him on the internet. If that wasn't what you were trying to say, this post really, really looks like it and I'll ask to to clarify, because that's just silliness. A Hawks fan might think less of Dre because of what fans say, but the Hawks organization is going to weigh many things when deciding how much they're willing to offer to acquire a player, and what fans say or think about a player's value isn't going to be on that list.

Yeah I'll clarify. You guys are both (Invictus) taking what I'm saying too far. All I'm talking about is fan perception (from RealGM and every where else). For example, I'm confident that the perpetual hatred for Drummond from the fan base played a role in the front office finally deciding to shop him. Fan perception does have influence. That's all I'm saying. Just like how voters have influential power over elected officials for example. Does that help?

You're still completely missing the point. Fan perception has nothing to do with the Pistons trying to deal Dre.
It has everything to do with the fact that Dre can enter free agency this offseason and the Pistons are doing what countless GMs have done before: try to recoup what little value is left before you are left with nothing.

There is no narrative impact here. As long as you attempt to perpetuate that line of thinking you will continue to be completely out of touch with reality.

[Snakebites]

Drummond's value is his fault for sure. I'm not trying to make excuses for him. I'm just saying that when fans demonize him so hard like they have been doing that it ends up facilitating that narrative around the league too. When I hear a fanbase trash a player like Pistons fans trash Drummond it puts up a huge red flag in my head before I even begin researching the player myself.

When Drummond drops 20/20/3/2/2 on 60% shooting and great defense it's okay to say "nice game."

You...do realize that how fans value him and how teams value him have absolutely nothing to do with each other right?

Dre's value around the league is low because of his contract situation, the relevancy of a player of his type in today's NBA, the fact that his impact is lower than his stats, and the fact that he is too easily impacted by rough circumstance. Some of those things are his fault, some of them aren't.

It's certainly not because fans say mean things about him on the internet. If that wasn't what you were trying to say, this post really, really looks like it and I'll ask to to clarify, because that's just silliness. A Hawks fan might think less of Dre because of what fans say, but the Hawks organization is going to weigh many things when deciding how much they're willing to offer to acquire a player, and what fans say or think about a player's value isn't going to be on that list.

Yeah I'll clarify. You guys are both (Invictus) taking what I'm saying too far. All I'm talking about is fan perception (from RealGM and every where else). For example, I'm confident that the perpetual hatred for Drummond from the fan base played a role in the front office finally deciding to shop him. Fan perception does have influence. That's all I'm saying. Just like how voters have influential power over elected officials for example. Does that help?

So your clarification is that I correctly interpreted what you originally said.

Got it.