ImageImageImage

Let's start the rebuild!

Moderators: dVs33, Snakebites, theBigLip

User avatar
bstein14
RealGM
Posts: 21,682
And1: 1,823
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Contact:

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#181 » by bstein14 » Mon May 11, 2020 9:47 am

If the salary cap drops to $100 million (Lux tax would drop to about $120 mil), that makes the market for Wood really small.

At a $100 million cap only Detroit, NY, Charlotte, and Atlanta would project to have $10+ million in cap space unless other teams let their high profile FAs walk.I suppose the bad news in that is those other 3 teams were all reportedly interested in Drummond so it could also be assumed they may have interest in Wood as well.

With tons of teams that will be desperate to move contracts to get out from under the luxury tax level. A team like Detroit, if they choose not to resign Wood, could very realistically parlay that capspace into multiple future first round picks. Forget first round picks even, at this NBA draft the value of first rounders could be really low because teams don't want to add that salary.

It is possible that this means MOST of the big name FA's end up resigning with their own teams. Guys like FVV, Harrell, DeRozan, could end up being forced into signing much smaller contracts than they were anticipating.

You are going to get solid rotation players singing for less than MLE type deals. Players like Reggie Jackson, Jeff Teague, Tristan Thompson, Jae Crowder, Jordan Clarkston, Marc Gasol, DeMarcus Cousins, Derrick Favors, Paul Milsap, Serge Ibaka, Gorgan Dragic, etc..... lots of starters that won't be able to get more than MLE from a team unless their own team decides to overpay for them.

I honestly don't think Drummond would get $15 million per year in this market and they think the cap could be even smaller next year... he is going to really regret not taking that extension from Detroit. Same thing that happened with KCP.
Billl
Veteran
Posts: 2,539
And1: 1,040
Joined: Sep 06, 2013

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#182 » by Billl » Mon May 11, 2020 1:19 pm

I imagine most players will just opt for 1 year deals and just hope the cap goes back up. Wood might be an exception because he's never gotten paid before.

Also, the CBA can be amended any time both sides agree. If the owners want to waive the luxury tax for a year, I think the players would agree to that.
User avatar
Manocad
RealGM
Posts: 62,509
And1: 7,937
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: Middle Fingerton
Contact:
       

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#184 » by Manocad » Mon May 11, 2020 8:05 pm

Canadafan wrote:https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2875692-pistons-blake-griffin-ready-to-go-following-surgery-to-repair-knee-injury

Sure, until he plays 40 games.

I think the empirical evidence is there to show that Blake Griffin shouldn't be considered part of the Pistons' future in any way. As has been discussed ad nauseum, the Pistons are still so far away from competing at a high level that Blake being healthy and playing at an All Star level actually HURTS the team in the long run.
Image
DBC10
General Manager
Posts: 8,193
And1: 2,221
Joined: Jun 01, 2013
 

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#185 » by DBC10 » Mon May 11, 2020 9:45 pm

Manocad wrote:
Canadafan wrote:https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2875692-pistons-blake-griffin-ready-to-go-following-surgery-to-repair-knee-injury

Sure, until he plays 40 games.

I think the empirical evidence is there to show that Blake Griffin shouldn't be considered part of the Pistons' future in any way. As has been discussed ad nauseum, the Pistons are still so far away from competing at a high level that Blake being healthy and playing at an All Star level actually HURTS the team in the long run.


What was funny was that one user (DetroitPistons) had him clocked for 32+ minutes of 2019-2020 season and expected to easily squeak in the playoffs.

The days of BG playing 30+ is over. He's this era's Amare Stoudemire, with the same injury risk and playstyle. What's encouraging is this org is treating him as such, in a respectful way. Let him make a bazillion dollars staying home and recover.
User avatar
Pharaoh
RealGM
Posts: 12,832
And1: 3,151
Joined: Aug 10, 2001

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#186 » by Pharaoh » Mon May 11, 2020 9:56 pm

bstein14 wrote:If the salary cap drops to $100 million (Lux tax would drop to about $120 mil), that makes the market for Wood really small.

At a $100 million cap only Detroit, NY, Charlotte, and Atlanta would project to have $10+ million in cap space unless other teams let their high profile FAs walk.I suppose the bad news in that is those other 3 teams were all reportedly interested in Drummond so it could also be assumed they may have interest in Wood as well.

With tons of teams that will be desperate to move contracts to get out from under the luxury tax level. A team like Detroit, if they choose not to resign Wood, could very realistically parlay that capspace into multiple future first round picks. Forget first round picks even, at this NBA draft the value of first rounders could be really low because teams don't want to add that salary.

It is possible that this means MOST of the big name FA's end up resigning with their own teams. Guys like FVV, Harrell, DeRozan, could end up being forced into signing much smaller contracts than they were anticipating.

You are going to get solid rotation players singing for less than MLE type deals. Players like Reggie Jackson, Jeff Teague, Tristan Thompson, Jae Crowder, Jordan Clarkston, Marc Gasol, DeMarcus Cousins, Derrick Favors, Paul Milsap, Serge Ibaka, Gorgan Dragic, etc..... lots of starters that won't be able to get more than MLE from a team unless their own team decides to overpay for them.

I honestly don't think Drummond would get $15 million per year in this market and they think the cap could be even smaller next year... he is going to really regret not taking that extension from Detroit. Same thing that happened with KCP.
Assuming the cap does drop to those levels I can't see Atlanta going after Wood.

They picked up Capela & Dedmon at the deadline & have Collins at the 4. Think it's more likely they go after a guard.

Also wouldn't be surprised if the Hawks trade their pick (& space) to bring in a guy that can help them push for the playoffs.

Who knows what Charlotte will do? They're a weird team to get a handle on.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app
Canadafan
Veteran
Posts: 2,603
And1: 831
Joined: Nov 03, 2014
       

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#187 » by Canadafan » Tue May 12, 2020 12:29 am

Manocad wrote:
Canadafan wrote:https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2875692-pistons-blake-griffin-ready-to-go-following-surgery-to-repair-knee-injury

Sure, until he plays 40 games.

I think the empirical evidence is there to show that Blake Griffin shouldn't be considered part of the Pistons' future in any way. As has been discussed ad nauseum, the Pistons are still so far away from competing at a high level that Blake being healthy and playing at an All Star level actually HURTS the team in the long run.


Yes most definitely am just happy hes supposedly healthy so maybe we can dump him on someone eventually. Not likely though especially now with coronavirus
JNewton
Veteran
Posts: 2,812
And1: 55
Joined: Aug 20, 2002

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#188 » by JNewton » Tue May 12, 2020 11:15 am

Canadafan wrote:
Manocad wrote:
Canadafan wrote:https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2875692-pistons-blake-griffin-ready-to-go-following-surgery-to-repair-knee-injury

Sure, until he plays 40 games.

I think the empirical evidence is there to show that Blake Griffin shouldn't be considered part of the Pistons' future in any way. As has been discussed ad nauseum, the Pistons are still so far away from competing at a high level that Blake being healthy and playing at an All Star level actually HURTS the team in the long run.


Yes most definitely am just happy hes supposedly healthy so maybe we can dump him on someone eventually. Not likely though especially now with coronavirus


Blake Griffin is not tradeable. I think anyone holding onto that pipe dream needs to come to grips with that fact. Only way he might be moved is if an even worse contract was coming back (the only one I can think of off-hand is John Wall), and why would the Pistons do that?
rmfc
Analyst
Posts: 3,302
And1: 677
Joined: Jul 19, 2009
       

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#189 » by rmfc » Tue May 12, 2020 1:11 pm

JNewton wrote:Blake Griffin is not tradeable.


Sad, but true.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Canadafan
Veteran
Posts: 2,603
And1: 831
Joined: Nov 03, 2014
       

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#190 » by Canadafan » Tue May 12, 2020 2:34 pm

JNewton wrote:
Canadafan wrote:
Manocad wrote:Sure, until he plays 40 games.

I think the empirical evidence is there to show that Blake Griffin shouldn't be considered part of the Pistons' future in any way. As has been discussed ad nauseum, the Pistons are still so far away from competing at a high level that Blake being healthy and playing at an All Star level actually HURTS the team in the long run.


Yes most definitely am just happy hes supposedly healthy so maybe we can dump him on someone eventually. Not likely though especially now with coronavirus


Blake Griffin is not tradeable. I think anyone holding onto that pipe dream needs to come to grips with that fact. Only way he might be moved is if an even worse contract was coming back (the only one I can think of off-hand is John Wall), and why would the Pistons do that?


I think if hes healthy and plays like he did in 2019-2019 then yes at the deadline the New York Knicks could trade for him lol. And that is hope enough for me because if we can get out of that last year of his contract itll make our rebuild that much easier.
Invictus88
Rookie
Posts: 1,126
And1: 358
Joined: Jun 25, 2013

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#191 » by Invictus88 » Tue May 12, 2020 3:53 pm

Canadafan wrote:
JNewton wrote:
Canadafan wrote:
Yes most definitely am just happy hes supposedly healthy so maybe we can dump him on someone eventually. Not likely though especially now with coronavirus


Blake Griffin is not tradeable. I think anyone holding onto that pipe dream needs to come to grips with that fact. Only way he might be moved is if an even worse contract was coming back (the only one I can think of off-hand is John Wall), and why would the Pistons do that?


I think if hes healthy and plays like he did in 2019-2019 then yes at the deadline the New York Knicks could trade for him lol. And that is hope enough for me because if we can get out of that last year of his contract itll make our rebuild that much easier.


Blake would have to have an other-worldly season with no health issues to have other teams even consider taking on his last year.

And that's exactly what we don't want to see.

If he has that season then that means we are winning basketball games. Right before next year's draft.

No terrible team would ever trade for him because there's every reason to believe he will break down. He's the opposite of a building block.

If he has that great season then maybe a contending team bites? If that happens we would get a low pick in return. But our own pick would be made much worse by the wins gained in the process.

I'm not even convinced a contending team bites. He's not a support piece. He doesn't play great defense. He's ball dominant....

I just don't see a scenario in which a Blake trade occurs and our rebuild is helped.
MotownMadness
RealGM
Posts: 28,689
And1: 15,989
Joined: Oct 08, 2013
       

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#192 » by MotownMadness » Tue May 12, 2020 4:06 pm

Invictus88 wrote:
Canadafan wrote:
JNewton wrote:
Blake Griffin is not tradeable. I think anyone holding onto that pipe dream needs to come to grips with that fact. Only way he might be moved is if an even worse contract was coming back (the only one I can think of off-hand is John Wall), and why would the Pistons do that?


I think if hes healthy and plays like he did in 2019-2019 then yes at the deadline the New York Knicks could trade for him lol. And that is hope enough for me because if we can get out of that last year of his contract itll make our rebuild that much easier.


Blake would have to have an other-worldly season with no health issues to have other teams even consider taking on his last year.

And that's exactly what we don't want to see.

If he has that season then that means we are winning basketball games. Right before next year's draft.

No terrible team would ever trade for him because there's every reason to believe he will break down. He's the opposite of a building block.

If he has that great season then maybe a contending team bites? If that happens we would get a low pick in return. But our own pick would be made much worse by the wins gained in the process.

I'm not even convinced a contending team bites. He's not a support piece. He doesn't play great defense. He's ball dominant....

I just don't see a scenario in which a Blake trade occurs and our rebuild is helped.

I would just buy him out of his last year. Yeah its alot of money but your gonna pay him to either sit or take away development mins from others anyways
Canadafan
Veteran
Posts: 2,603
And1: 831
Joined: Nov 03, 2014
       

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#193 » by Canadafan » Tue May 12, 2020 4:37 pm

Invictus88 wrote:
Canadafan wrote:
JNewton wrote:
Blake Griffin is not tradeable. I think anyone holding onto that pipe dream needs to come to grips with that fact. Only way he might be moved is if an even worse contract was coming back (the only one I can think of off-hand is John Wall), and why would the Pistons do that?


I think if hes healthy and plays like he did in 2019-2019 then yes at the deadline the New York Knicks could trade for him lol. And that is hope enough for me because if we can get out of that last year of his contract itll make our rebuild that much easier.


Blake would have to have an other-worldly season with no health issues to have other teams even consider taking on his last year.

And that's exactly what we don't want to see.

If he has that season then that means we are winning basketball games. Right before next year's draft.

No terrible team would ever trade for him because there's every reason to believe he will break down. He's the opposite of a building block.

If he has that great season then maybe a contending team bites? If that happens we would get a low pick in return. But our own pick would be made much worse by the wins gained in the process.

I'm not even convinced a contending team bites. He's not a support piece. He doesn't play great defense. He's ball dominant....

I just don't see a scenario in which a Blake trade occurs and our rebuild is helped.


Mehhhhh we're pretty horrible. I dont think jordan in his prime would help us win many games let alone a healthy Blake
pistons4ever
Sophomore
Posts: 218
And1: 69
Joined: Jul 03, 2016
         

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#194 » by pistons4ever » Tue May 12, 2020 5:11 pm

Prime jordan instead of kennard and we would Not win more games?????i was not an jordan fan but him with blake derrick sekou wood brown snell thon would be a top 4 Team in the east
Invictus88
Rookie
Posts: 1,126
And1: 358
Joined: Jun 25, 2013

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#195 » by Invictus88 » Tue May 12, 2020 5:15 pm

Canadafan wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:
Canadafan wrote:
I think if hes healthy and plays like he did in 2019-2019 then yes at the deadline the New York Knicks could trade for him lol. And that is hope enough for me because if we can get out of that last year of his contract itll make our rebuild that much easier.


Blake would have to have an other-worldly season with no health issues to have other teams even consider taking on his last year.

And that's exactly what we don't want to see.

If he has that season then that means we are winning basketball games. Right before next year's draft.

No terrible team would ever trade for him because there's every reason to believe he will break down. He's the opposite of a building block.

If he has that great season then maybe a contending team bites? If that happens we would get a low pick in return. But our own pick would be made much worse by the wins gained in the process.

I'm not even convinced a contending team bites. He's not a support piece. He doesn't play great defense. He's ball dominant....

I just don't see a scenario in which a Blake trade occurs and our rebuild is helped.


Mehhhhh we're pretty horrible. I dont think jordan in his prime would help us win many games let alone a healthy Blake


Were you not watching this last season? There were a ton of teams bunched around the same number of wins at the bottom. It wouldn't take much to bump us up a handful of wins to vault past some of the lowest tier teams.

The improvement in Blake that would be needed in order to trade him would effectively put us into contention for the 8th seed in the east. Yes, he would have to add that much. Because his contract and injury history really are that bad.
User avatar
Uncle Mxy
General Manager
Posts: 7,675
And1: 900
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
Location: I plead the Fifth Dimension

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#196 » by Uncle Mxy » Tue May 12, 2020 6:08 pm

Let's start rebuilding the Palace!

Yeah, I'm bored.
User avatar
bstein14
RealGM
Posts: 21,682
And1: 1,823
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Contact:

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#197 » by bstein14 » Tue May 12, 2020 9:11 pm

Would you guys trade Blake for Tobias Harris straight up?

Not saying Philly would do it, but part of me thinks with a declining cap those 4 years left on the Harris contract might make it worse than the 2 left for Blake.
User avatar
Manocad
RealGM
Posts: 62,509
And1: 7,937
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: Middle Fingerton
Contact:
       

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#198 » by Manocad » Tue May 12, 2020 9:42 pm

bstein14 wrote:Would you guys trade Blake for Tobias Harris straight up?

Not saying Philly would do it, but part of me thinks with a declining cap those 4 years left on the Harris contract might make it worse than the 2 left for Blake.

Absolutely not. No point.
Image
Canadafan
Veteran
Posts: 2,603
And1: 831
Joined: Nov 03, 2014
       

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#199 » by Canadafan » Tue May 12, 2020 10:38 pm

Uncle Mxy wrote:Let's start rebuilding the Palace!

Yeah, I'm bored.


Yes! I miss the Palace mannnn
440BB
Sophomore
Posts: 198
And1: 120
Joined: Jul 13, 2017
     

Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#200 » by 440BB » Wed May 13, 2020 9:14 am

bstein14 wrote:Would you guys trade Blake for Tobias Harris straight up?

Not saying Philly would do it, but part of me thinks with a declining cap those 4 years left on the Harris contract might make it worse than the 2 left for Blake.

Good point. If we had kept and resigned Harris we would likely be continuing to retool as a 6-8 seed and may have kept Drummond.

Harris' massive contract would be very hard to move during declining cap years. Mediocrity would have been extended for a few more years at a hefty price.

At least Griffin's knee helped us clear the books to get the rebuild started.

Return to Detroit Pistons