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Let's start the rebuild!

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ByeByeDre
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#421 » by ByeByeDre » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:51 am

chrbal wrote:
Crymson wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:I think any team looking to clear a additional 12 mil in cap space for 2021 will look at Snell.

That combined with a potential salary cap freeze could make him a attractive option for so many teams.

A 2 year deal + a pick for Snell is the obvious trade

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How often do you see such trades made in the offseason? The answer is hardly ever. The Bucks made that trade prior to free agency because they needed the cap space immediately.

Teams looking to clear space for 2021 will wait until the deadline and evaluate the options at that time.


I’d say around once per offseason. I think post covid finances will make that number rise.


I too think that number will rise - don’t worry about people telling you that what you think is wrong. It’s a forum. Some people need to count to ten.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#422 » by The_Irony » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:20 am

Yeah Jerami Grant is def getting more than 10m per. I was wrong about that.

But whos going to be the team to give him 11-15m?
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#423 » by Crymson » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:35 am

ByeByeDre wrote:
chrbal wrote:
Crymson wrote:
How often do you see such trades made in the offseason? The answer is hardly ever. The Bucks made that trade prior to free agency because they needed the cap space immediately.

Teams looking to clear space for 2021 will wait until the deadline and evaluate the options at that time.


I’d say around once per offseason. I think post covid finances will make that number rise.


I too think that number will rise - don’t worry about people telling you that what you think is wrong. It’s a forum. Some people need to count to ten.


It's not a matter of what he thinks. What he claimed is factually erroneous.

The_Irony wrote:Yeah Jerami Grant is def getting more than 10m per. I was wrong about that.

But whos going to be the team to give him 11-15m?


Denver, of course. The team that's in the conference finals with room to grow from within.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#424 » by chrbal » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:01 pm

Crymson wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
chrbal wrote:
I’d say around once per offseason. I think post covid finances will make that number rise.


I too think that number will rise - don’t worry about people telling you that what you think is wrong. It’s a forum. Some people need to count to ten.


It's not a matter of what he thinks. What he claimed is factually erroneous.


The_Irony wrote:Yeah Jerami Grant is def getting more than 10m per. I was wrong about that.

But whos going to be the team to give him 11-15m?



Denver, of course. The team that's in the conference finals with room to grow from within.


So offseason money saving trades;
2019
Obviously the snell trade.

2018
The Brooklyn Nets traded Isaiah Whitehead to the Denver Nuggets for Darrell Arthur, Kenneth Faried, a 2019 1st round draft pick (Mfiondu Kabengele was later selected) and a 2020 2nd round draft pick. (2019 1st-rd pick is top-12 protected.)

The Denver Nuggets traded Wilson Chandler, a 2021 2nd round draft pick and a 2022 2nd round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers for cash. (2022 2nd-rd pick is a swap.) $110,000

2017
The Miami Heat traded Josh McRoberts, $5.1M cash and a 2023 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for A.J. Hammons.

The Toronto Raptors traded DeMarre Carroll, a 2018 1st round draft pick (Džanan Musa was later selected) and a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Rodions Kurucs was later selected) to the Brooklyn Nets for Justin Hamilton.

2016

The Golden State Warriors traded Andrew Bogut and a future 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for a 2019 2nd round draft pick. (DAL has choice between 2019 or 2020) (DAL pick to GSW is top-55 protected; Did not convey)

The Chicago Bulls traded José Calderón, a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk was later selected) and a 2019 2nd round draft pick (Bruno Fernando was later selected) to the Los Angeles Lakers for Ater Majok.

I’m sure there are probably more, I just wanted to prove a trend.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#425 » by Crymson » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:52 pm

chrbal wrote:
Crymson wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
I too think that number will rise - don’t worry about people telling you that what you think is wrong. It’s a forum. Some people need to count to ten.


It's not a matter of what he thinks. What he claimed is factually erroneous.


The_Irony wrote:Yeah Jerami Grant is def getting more than 10m per. I was wrong about that.

But whos going to be the team to give him 11-15m?



Denver, of course. The team that's in the conference finals with room to grow from within.


So offseason money saving trades;
2019
Obviously the snell trade.

2018
The Brooklyn Nets traded Isaiah Whitehead to the Denver Nuggets for Darrell Arthur, Kenneth Faried, a 2019 1st round draft pick (Mfiondu Kabengele was later selected) and a 2020 2nd round draft pick. (2019 1st-rd pick is top-12 protected.)

The Denver Nuggets traded Wilson Chandler, a 2021 2nd round draft pick and a 2022 2nd round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers for cash. (2022 2nd-rd pick is a swap.) $110,000

2017
The Miami Heat traded Josh McRoberts, $5.1M cash and a 2023 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for A.J. Hammons.

The Toronto Raptors traded DeMarre Carroll, a 2018 1st round draft pick (Džanan Musa was later selected) and a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Rodions Kurucs was later selected) to the Brooklyn Nets for Justin Hamilton.

2016

The Golden State Warriors traded Andrew Bogut and a future 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for a 2019 2nd round draft pick. (DAL has choice between 2019 or 2020) (DAL pick to GSW is top-55 protected; Did not convey)

The Chicago Bulls traded José Calderón, a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk was later selected) and a 2019 2nd round draft pick (Bruno Fernando was later selected) to the Los Angeles Lakers for Ater Majok.

I’m sure there are probably more, I just wanted to prove a trend.


With the exception of the Snell trade, zero of these was a trade involving an expiring salary for a contract of longer duration. Similarly, zero of these was toward the end of mobility a year down the line. All were made with an eye toward the immediate offseason.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#426 » by chrbal » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:59 pm

Crymson wrote:
chrbal wrote:
Crymson wrote:
It's not a matter of what he thinks. What he claimed is factually erroneous.





Denver, of course. The team that's in the conference finals with room to grow from within.


So offseason money saving trades;
2019
Obviously the snell trade.

2018
The Brooklyn Nets traded Isaiah Whitehead to the Denver Nuggets for Darrell Arthur, Kenneth Faried, a 2019 1st round draft pick (Mfiondu Kabengele was later selected) and a 2020 2nd round draft pick. (2019 1st-rd pick is top-12 protected.)

The Denver Nuggets traded Wilson Chandler, a 2021 2nd round draft pick and a 2022 2nd round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers for cash. (2022 2nd-rd pick is a swap.) $110,000

2017
The Miami Heat traded Josh McRoberts, $5.1M cash and a 2023 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for A.J. Hammons.

The Toronto Raptors traded DeMarre Carroll, a 2018 1st round draft pick (Džanan Musa was later selected) and a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Rodions Kurucs was later selected) to the Brooklyn Nets for Justin Hamilton.

2016

The Golden State Warriors traded Andrew Bogut and a future 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for a 2019 2nd round draft pick. (DAL has choice between 2019 or 2020) (DAL pick to GSW is top-55 protected; Did not convey)

The Chicago Bulls traded José Calderón, a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk was later selected) and a 2019 2nd round draft pick (Bruno Fernando was later selected) to the Los Angeles Lakers for Ater Majok.

I’m sure there are probably more, I just wanted to prove a trend.


With the exception of the Snell trade, zero of these was a trade involving an expiring salary for a contract of longer duration. Similarly, zero of these was toward the end of mobility a year down the line. All were made with an eye toward the immediate offseason.


Agree to disagree. The Snell/leuer trade was made to open up instant payroll for the bucks. All of those trades did similar things. You can narrowly describe all trades so that there are no similar examples.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#427 » by DetroitSho » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:49 am

Crymson wrote:
chrbal wrote:
Crymson wrote:
It's not a matter of what he thinks. What he claimed is factually erroneous.





Denver, of course. The team that's in the conference finals with room to grow from within.


So offseason money saving trades;
2019
Obviously the snell trade.

2018
The Brooklyn Nets traded Isaiah Whitehead to the Denver Nuggets for Darrell Arthur, Kenneth Faried, a 2019 1st round draft pick (Mfiondu Kabengele was later selected) and a 2020 2nd round draft pick. (2019 1st-rd pick is top-12 protected.)

The Denver Nuggets traded Wilson Chandler, a 2021 2nd round draft pick and a 2022 2nd round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers for cash. (2022 2nd-rd pick is a swap.) $110,000

2017
The Miami Heat traded Josh McRoberts, $5.1M cash and a 2023 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for A.J. Hammons.

The Toronto Raptors traded DeMarre Carroll, a 2018 1st round draft pick (Džanan Musa was later selected) and a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Rodions Kurucs was later selected) to the Brooklyn Nets for Justin Hamilton.

2016

The Golden State Warriors traded Andrew Bogut and a future 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for a 2019 2nd round draft pick. (DAL has choice between 2019 or 2020) (DAL pick to GSW is top-55 protected; Did not convey)

The Chicago Bulls traded José Calderón, a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk was later selected) and a 2019 2nd round draft pick (Bruno Fernando was later selected) to the Los Angeles Lakers for Ater Majok.

I’m sure there are probably more, I just wanted to prove a trend.


With the exception of the Snell trade, zero of these was a trade involving an expiring salary for a contract of longer duration. Similarly, zero of these was toward the end of mobility a year down the line. All were made with an eye toward the immediate offseason.
Maybe it's me but to your question couldn't a team just do with Snell exactly what Milwaukee did with Leuer? With Snell's $11 million, a team can trade a player making as much as $13.8 million for Snell, stretch Snell for 3 years with a $3.6 million cap. This would immediately open up over $10 million in cap space this summer.

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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#428 » by ByeByeDre » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:40 am

chrbal wrote:
Crymson wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
I too think that number will rise - don’t worry about people telling you that what you think is wrong. It’s a forum. Some people need to count to ten.


It's not a matter of what he thinks. What he claimed is factually erroneous.


The_Irony wrote:Yeah Jerami Grant is def getting more than 10m per. I was wrong about that.

But whos going to be the team to give him 11-15m?



Denver, of course. The team that's in the conference finals with room to grow from within.


So offseason money saving trades;
2019
Obviously the snell trade.

2018
The Brooklyn Nets traded Isaiah Whitehead to the Denver Nuggets for Darrell Arthur, Kenneth Faried, a 2019 1st round draft pick (Mfiondu Kabengele was later selected) and a 2020 2nd round draft pick. (2019 1st-rd pick is top-12 protected.)

The Denver Nuggets traded Wilson Chandler, a 2021 2nd round draft pick and a 2022 2nd round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers for cash. (2022 2nd-rd pick is a swap.) $110,000

2017
The Miami Heat traded Josh McRoberts, $5.1M cash and a 2023 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for A.J. Hammons.

The Toronto Raptors traded DeMarre Carroll, a 2018 1st round draft pick (Džanan Musa was later selected) and a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Rodions Kurucs was later selected) to the Brooklyn Nets for Justin Hamilton.

2016

The Golden State Warriors traded Andrew Bogut and a future 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for a 2019 2nd round draft pick. (DAL has choice between 2019 or 2020) (DAL pick to GSW is top-55 protected; Did not convey)

The Chicago Bulls traded José Calderón, a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk was later selected) and a 2019 2nd round draft pick (Bruno Fernando was later selected) to the Los Angeles Lakers for Ater Majok.

I’m sure there are probably more, I just wanted to prove a trend.


DING DING DING - not to mention the fact that the salary cap is going to be under major pressure from a forty percent decline in viewership, no attendance, a forty percent decline in viewership........ wait for season ticket renewals, they’ll be awesome too...... Why is viewership down when everyone is home? Hmmmm
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#429 » by Crymson » Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:06 am

Crymson wrote:With the exception of the Snell trade, zero of these was a trade involving an expiring salary for a contract of longer duration. Similarly, zero of these was toward the end of mobility a year down the line. All were made with an eye toward the immediate offseason.


chrbal wrote:Agree to disagree. The Snell/leuer trade was made to open up instant payroll for the bucks. All of those trades did similar things. You can narrowly describe all trades so that there are no similar examples.


Are you even reading what I've written? It doesn't appear that you are.

You're the one who has moved the goalposts. Somehow talk of a trade along the lines of the Snell/Leuer deal, and the irregularity of such trades, morphed into talk of salary dumps.

No offense, but a simple "I didn't know that" would do fine.

DetroitSho wrote:Maybe it's me but to your question couldn't a team just do with Snell exactly what Milwaukee did with Leuer? With Snell's $11 million, a team can trade a player making as much as $13.8 million for Snell, stretch Snell for 3 years with a $3.6 million cap. This would immediately open up over $10 million in cap space this summer.


Could, but won't. As I've noted, the Snell/Leuer trade was unusual. It's rare for a team to take back salary in a dump, and it's very rare for a team to stretch a one-year contract for the sake of immediate cap space. It's certainly very unlikely that any team would do so for the sake of cap space toward this offseason's very weak free-agent class.

A trade that sees the Pistons absorb salary in exchange for assets would almost certainly take the form of a simple dump. And barring a scenario involving a team attempting to avoid the luxury tax, nobody has reason to dump salary in this particular offseason. And nobody has cause to trade for Snell's expiring deal in the offseason either; if they want to dump salary by means of taking on an expiring contract, that will be done at the deadline (Snell himself has no trade value). And that brings us around to the original point.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#430 » by MotownMadness » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:55 pm

Maybe Dallas parts ways with Wright and Powell to clear cap for 21 free agency. They are gonna wanna have room for another big player and those two need to go.

Wright, Powell and #18
For
Snell and Thomas
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#431 » by Crymson » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:58 pm

MotownMadness wrote:Maybe Dallas parts ways with Wright and Powell to clear cap for 21 free agency. They are gonna wanna have room for another big player and those two need to go.

Wright, Powell and #18
For
Snell and Thomas


Again, why would they make such a trade now rather than at the deadline? Why become worse before the season even begins? And why do this when they'll already have space for a max deal in 2021 as it is?
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#432 » by MotownMadness » Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:02 pm

Crymson wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:Maybe Dallas parts ways with Wright and Powell to clear cap for 21 free agency. They are gonna wanna have room for another big player and those two need to go.

Wright, Powell and #18
For
Snell and Thomas


Again, why would they make such a trade now rather than at the deadline? Why become worse by losing Wright, who's a useful player on what will almost undoubtedly remain a playoff team, before the season even begins? And why do this when they'll already have space for a max deal in 2021 as it is?

Because the trade is available now with them having a 18th pick to use to get rid of their dead weight. Why do they need to wait?

They have plenty of guards of Wrights type tier and will probably wanna resign Burke as well after his playoff showing. So just do it now and make the max slot they need for 21 Free Agency.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#433 » by chrbal » Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:02 pm

MotownMadness wrote:Maybe Dallas parts ways with Wright and Powell to clear cap for 21 free agency. They are gonna wanna have room for another big player and those two need to go.

Wright, Powell and #18
For
Snell and Thomas


I don’t think I’d want to take on Powell’s contract, but it makes sense otherwise.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#434 » by chrbal » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:43 pm

Crymson wrote:
Crymson wrote:With the exception of the Snell trade, zero of these was a trade involving an expiring salary for a contract of longer duration. Similarly, zero of these was toward the end of mobility a year down the line. All were made with an eye toward the immediate offseason.


chrbal wrote:Agree to disagree. The Snell/leuer trade was made to open up instant payroll for the bucks. All of those trades did similar things. You can narrowly describe all trades so that there are no similar examples.


Are you even reading what I've written? It doesn't appear that you are.

You're the one who has moved the goalposts. Somehow talk of a trade along the lines of the Snell/Leuer deal, and the irregularity of such trades, morphed into talk of salary dumps.

No offense, but a simple "I didn't know that" would do fine.


So you think I owe you an apology and/or a statement because our opinions are different? I haven’t violated any board rules with the post you are referring to, I haven’t personally attacked you.

Move on like I have.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#435 » by whitehops » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:37 pm

i was just randomly looking at our roster and it's crazy to think how different the team will look next season. the only players under contract next year are:

Blake
Rose
Snell (he will obviously exercise his player option)
Kennard
Dembouya

plus non-guaranteed contracts likely picked up:
Brown
Mykhailiuk

so there's only seven guys and that might even be less if rose gets traded. we're going to need a lot of bodies to fill out this roster.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#436 » by chrbal » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:51 pm

whitehops wrote:i was just randomly looking at our roster and it's crazy to think how different the team will look next season. the only players under contract next year are:

Blake
Rose
Snell (he will obviously exercise his player option)
Kennard
Dembouya

plus non-guaranteed contracts likely picked up:
Brown
Mykhailiuk

so there's only seven guys and that might even be less if rose gets traded. we're going to need a lot of bodies to fill out this roster.


It will be a crazy run for a few seasons. I think Patton has a good shot at getting guaranteed. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Thomas, Bone, and King get a shot.

I feel like Maker signs elsewhere.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#437 » by MotownMadness » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:08 pm

chrbal wrote:
whitehops wrote:i was just randomly looking at our roster and it's crazy to think how different the team will look next season. the only players under contract next year are:

Blake
Rose
Snell (he will obviously exercise his player option)
Kennard
Dembouya

plus non-guaranteed contracts likely picked up:
Brown
Mykhailiuk

so there's only seven guys and that might even be less if rose gets traded. we're going to need a lot of bodies to fill out this roster.


It will be a crazy run for a few seasons. I think Patton has a good shot at getting guaranteed. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Thomas, Bone, and King get a shot.

I feel like Maker signs elsewhere.

Man I hope Maker is gone, hate wasting mins on him like there's something to develop in him.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#438 » by chrbal » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:27 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
chrbal wrote:
whitehops wrote:i was just randomly looking at our roster and it's crazy to think how different the team will look next season. the only players under contract next year are:

Blake
Rose
Snell (he will obviously exercise his player option)
Kennard
Dembouya

plus non-guaranteed contracts likely picked up:
Brown
Mykhailiuk

so there's only seven guys and that might even be less if rose gets traded. we're going to need a lot of bodies to fill out this roster.


It will be a crazy run for a few seasons. I think Patton has a good shot at getting guaranteed. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Thomas, Bone, and King get a shot.

I feel like Maker signs elsewhere.

Man I hope Maker is gone, hate wasting mins on him like there's something to develop in him.


No god yes I want Maker to sign elsewhere. I wouldn’t be shocked/bothered if they resigned him cheap, but both sides are better off separating
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#439 » by whitehops » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:10 am

chrbal wrote:No god yes I want Maker to sign elsewhere. I wouldn’t be shocked/bothered if they resigned him cheap, but both sides are better off separating


i feel that way about guys like maker and khyri thomas. i think they've shown enough (by not showing enough) to pass on their roster spots for other players to take chances on. like, if we re-sign them for like a mil or two per year to fill out roster spots i wouldn't be upset but i definitely don't want them having a spot in the rotation.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#440 » by chrbal » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:44 pm

whitehops wrote:
chrbal wrote:No god yes I want Maker to sign elsewhere. I wouldn’t be shocked/bothered if they resigned him cheap, but both sides are better off separating


i feel that way about guys like maker and khyri thomas. i think they've shown enough (by not showing enough) to pass on their roster spots for other players to take chances on. like, if we re-sign them for like a mil or two per year to fill out roster spots i wouldn't be upset but i definitely don't want them having a spot in the rotation.


Thomas’ contract is unguaranteed, so you just push back the guarantee date, offer some small guarantee and let him try to make the team or be a two way contract.

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