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We’ve been terrible for a long time. But there were moments we dropped the ball the last 12 years and could have had something.

Middleton is no longer an above average 3&D player, he’s a legit star in this league.

Can’t believe we couldn’t see anything in him. He was dealt as a trade filler. Lol.

Lol we essentially traded him away for B Jennings. It's truly awful in hindsight.

Not to mention Jennings wasn't even getting any legitimate offers at the time and was an RFA for a loooooong while with the Bucks in the offseason. We outbid ourselves.

I specifically remember that offseason since that's when we drafted KCP and I was intrigued with the Brandon Knight combo on the perimeter. Only for them to nix that and go all in with dumb moves like J Smith and starting the corpse of Chauncey over KCP.

We kept Kyle Singler over Middleton because we love our broken Dukies.

Uncle Mxy wrote:We kept Kyle Singler over Middleton because we love our broken Dukies.

That’s the crazy thing. Milwaukee asked for Singler and we negotiated “down” to Middleton.

Frustrating.

Uncle Mxy wrote:We kept Kyle Singler over Middleton because we love our broken Dukies.

Snakebites wrote:

Uncle Mxy wrote:We kept Kyle Singler over Middleton because we love our broken Dukies.

That’s the crazy thing. Milwaukee asked for Singler and we negotiated “down” to Middleton.

Frustrating.

I was sure it was the other way around, that they wanted Middleton as the start of negotiations and we offered Singler and they balked.

Either way I think it's a huge black mark in the last decade letting KMid go when we've been dying for a capable elite wing every season.

Look, every team makes these kinds of mistakes.

Oh wait—no. They don’t.

It’s not a coincidence that both of the stars we gave up on were great talents that happened to be injured in college.
But instead of looking at their talent, size and athleticism we lost patience and didn’t let them get comfortable.

Both of them are stars drafted by the Pistons:
Khris Middleton
Spencer Dinwiddie

Yeah Middleton is a star. Hes what every team is looking for nowadays an elite 3+D wing.

Would they have ever blossomed into what they are now if we kept them?

When was the last time we developed a guy?

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Pharaoh wrote:Would they have ever blossomed into what they are now if we kept them?

When was the last time we developed a guy?

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No chance. That's why I've never really gotten worked up about someone like Middleton. We were never giving him the chance. Even though he obviously had talent, we had a coach who was obsessed with "experience" over ability. Would have just killed his career.

These coaches we always go for would rather play someone like Singler, who's not going to make many glaring mistakes or do anything to excite you. It matches the mindset of this team perfect over the last decade+. Strive for mediocrity.

We've actually had some of the best second round draft picks since 2000. Lots of teams have drafted over the last 20 years and had zero all-stars from the second round. We've hit multiple all-stars the last 20 years, and other good solid players as well that have had long careers. Not many teams at all can say that about second rounders..... As far as the first round goes, we are one of the worst teams drafting with only Dre being an all-star from all our first round draft picks.

2000 Brian Cardinal (long NBA career)
2001 Mehmet Okur (NBA All Star)
2005 Amir Johnson (last pick of draft and long NBA career)
2009 Jonas Jerebko (long NBA career)
2012 Khris Middleton (NBA All Star)
2014 Spencer Dinwiddie (Looks like a potential future NBA all-star)
2018 Bruce Brown (Looks like a solid player who will have long NBA career)

Really? Why do we have to do this? Lol. Like having to watch this trainwreck of a team isnt bad enough now we gotta rehash all the bad moves that have happened. If someone brings up Darko I might just start crying hysterically
Pray that ten yrs from now we are gloating over great moves we made that compare to the stackhouse, hill and sheed trades we made. Ahhhh the good ol days

Most these guys that have worked out from the 2nd round like Middleton, Dinwiddie and Brown were once all viewed as mid 1st/late lottery at one point before injuries in college.

Werent they all ACL tears too?

This is exactly why the team should look to trade Luke Kennard as fast as possible(as other insightful posters here have repeatedly stated)so we can have another one of these threads very soon. It spurs discussion and that's a good thing.

It should also be to another team within the conference, and division if possible so we can watch him blossom 4 times a year. I've often talked about how having Orlando as the only NBA farm team is not a good thing and that the Pistons should also move into that role.

I don't think at the time there was much indication Khris Middleton would end up being the player he was. He was a non-athletic upper-classman who wasn't some great superstar in college, coming off a knee injury drafted in the 2nd round, who racked up DNP's in his first year with the Pistons. Nice for Milwaukee he turned out to be the player he is, but I don't know that you can blame the Pistons for not foreseeing this at the time.

BDM22 wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:Would they have ever blossomed into what they are now if we kept them?

When was the last time we developed a guy?

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

No chance. That's why I've never really gotten worked up about someone like Middleton. We were never giving him the chance. Even though he obviously had talent, we had a coach who was obsessed with "experience" over ability. Would have just killed his career.

These coaches we always go for would rather play someone like Singler, who's not going to make many glaring mistakes or do anything to excite you. It matches the mindset of this team perfect over the last decade+. Strive for mediocrity.

Good is the enemy of great.

Middleton always had talent. I remember very clearly. Also Dinwiddie. He was a good pg who could win you games on both ends.
Knight always was who he is. A bench sg you put in the game to score points. As a pg he was small and turnover prone.

You can always see who a player will be when they mature (barring injuries). The talent, the size, the mindset. Skills improve over time and the game slows down. A young adult's brain doesn't even fully develop till age 25. Other teams understand this. Dumars, SVG doesnt.

You can't really blame the coaches. They coach for their record. They work with what they have.

It's the nearsighted GMs that curse the franchise.

vic wrote:Middleton always had talent. I remember very clearly. Also Dinwiddie. He was a good pg who could win you games on both ends.
Knight always was who he is. A bench sg you put in the game to score points. As a pg he was small and turnover prone.

You can always see who a player will be when they mature (barring injuries). The talent, the size, the mindset. Skills improve over time and the game slows down. A young adult's brain doesn't even fully develop till age 25. Other teams understand this. Dumars, SVG doesnt.

You can't really blame the coaches. They coach for their record. They work with what they have.

It's the nearsighted GMs that curse the franchise.

Wont claim that I thought Middleton would be a versatile 20ppg scorer on over 50/40/90 on the best team in the league by any means, but I do generally agree with what Vic is trying to say here. Middleton could've very easily been a late lotto pick had he not gotten injured in college. He had good size, length, decent athleticism, and pure shooting ability. Didn't have the basketball IQ issues that guys like Knight and Tony Mitchell had, and wasn't a defensive sieve like Monroe. He isn't that far off from what I, and a lot posters on the pistons board too, thought he could potentially be.

Drwho17 wrote:I don't think at the time there was much indication Khris Middleton would end up being the player he was. He was a non-athletic upper-classman who wasn't some great superstar in college, coming off a knee injury drafted in the 2nd round, who racked up DNP's in his first year with the Pistons. Nice for Milwaukee he turned out to be the player he is, but I don't know that you can blame the Pistons for not foreseeing this at the time.

It's the organization's job to foresee these things. Scouts and GM's are paid to foresee these things. And someone did - they spent a draft pick on him in spite of the knee injury.