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New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too)

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New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#1 » by GSR121 » Fri May 15, 2020 1:32 am

According to wiretap the league may reduce the salary cap by as much as 30 million. If that happens should the league implement a one time "Allan Houston" type buy out? One that allows a team the option to buy out the remaining contract of a player on their team for the full amount of that contract with that salary no longer counting against the cap. That team could not resign that player for a minimum of two years and could not trade for him for a minimum of one year. That player would receive his full pay for the remaining years on his contract and be come an unrestricted free agent immediately.

The reasoning would be that all teams are being impacted due to factors beyond their control. With the cap number dropping unexpectedly and significantly teams will have little room for maneuvering and long term as well as short term plans will be greatly impacted. Some teams that had positioned themselves not to pay the luxury tax will now be up against it and teams that had positioned themselves to have cap room will no longer have it.


O.K. here is the fun part. If you think that the league should do this, what teams would use it and Who would they cut?
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Re: New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#2 » by DCintheD » Fri May 15, 2020 1:48 am

This sounds like the amnesty clause from the 2011 lockout. The one gores didn’t use on ben gordon and instead traded a pick with to get rid of.
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Re: New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#3 » by GSR121 » Fri May 15, 2020 2:28 am

My opinion is the league should do this. It would generate a lot of buzz and give teams a needed relief. My picks for who uses it area s follows:

Going from highest salary in 2019/2020 according to Hoopshype.

Por: Trevor Ariza ( good player, overpaid?)

Mia: Kelly Olynyk (replaceable for less)

OKC: Chris Paul (over paid)

Orl: Aaron Gordon (over paid)

LaC: JaMychal Green (replaceable for less)

Min: James Johnson (replaceable for less)

PHI: Mike Scott (replaceable)

Was: John Wall (Hurt too often)

GSW: Andrew Wiggins (salary cap casualty)

Mil: George Hill (bad fit? not needed?)

Cle: Kevin Love (hurt too often)

Den: Gary Harris ( redundant already have Will Barton)

Hou: Russell Westbrook(!) (bad fit huge cap relief)

Det: Blake Griffin (hurt, Huge cap relief)

Mem: Gorgui Dieng (over paid)

Bkl: DeAndre Jordan (over paid, Mistake?)

LaL: Avery Bradley (bad fit)

Dal: Dwight Powell (over paid long contract) was going Hardaway Jr. but gone after the season.

Sas: DeMarre Carroll (over paid)

Tor: Stanley Johnson ( replaceable)

Cha: Nicolas Batum (over paid)

Uta: I don't think they use it.

Phx: Not used

Bos: Gordon Hayward (maybe?)

Sac: Don't use it.

NoP: Don't use it.

Chi: Cristiano Felicio (replaceable)

Atl: Don't use it.

Ind: Malcolm Brogdon (over paid, salary cap victim)

NyN: Julius Randle (replaceable)
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Re: New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#4 » by Snakebites » Fri May 15, 2020 2:49 am

A lot of teams will be reluctant to pay out big money just to get under the salary cap and be able to sign more players, especially given they stand to lose quite a bit of money as it is.

I could definitely see teams in the luxury tax going for this, but I don't know about a lot of your other teams.
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Re: New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#5 » by Pharaoh » Fri May 15, 2020 3:13 am

GSR121 wrote:My opinion is the league should do this. It would generate a lot of buzz and give teams a needed relief. My picks for who uses it area s follows:

Going from highest salary in 2019/2020 according to Hoopshype.

Por: Trevor Ariza ( good player, overpaid?)

Mia: Kelly Olynyk (replaceable for less)

OKC: Chris Paul (over paid)

Orl: Aaron Gordon (over paid)

LaC: JaMychal Green (replaceable for less)

Min: James Johnson (replaceable for less)

PHI: Mike Scott (replaceable)

Was: John Wall (Hurt too often)

GSW: Andrew Wiggins (salary cap casualty)

Mil: George Hill (bad fit? not needed?)

Cle: Kevin Love (hurt too often)

Den: Gary Harris ( redundant already have Will Barton)

Hou: Russell Westbrook(!) (bad fit huge cap relief)

Det: Blake Griffin (hurt, Huge cap relief)

Mem: Gorgui Dieng (over paid)

Bkl: DeAndre Jordan (over paid, Mistake?)

LaL: Avery Bradley (bad fit)

Dal: Dwight Powell (over paid long contract) was going Hardaway Jr. but gone after the season.

Sas: DeMarre Carroll (over paid)

Tor: Stanley Johnson ( replaceable)

Cha: Nicolas Batum (over paid)

Uta: I don't think they use it.

Phx: Not used

Bos: Gordon Hayward (maybe?)

Sac: Don't use it.

NoP: Don't use it.

Chi: Cristiano Felicio (replaceable)

Atl: Don't use it.

Ind: Malcolm Brogdon (over paid, salary cap victim)

NyN: Julius Randle (replaceable)
No way Hayward, Randle or Brogdon would be dumped IMO

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Re: New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#6 » by Manocad » Sat May 16, 2020 1:12 am

I don't want Blake bought out at this point. It's clear that getting him was a mistake, both in the sense that he's not worth the money due to his injuries, but that he didn't move the needle a lot in the grand scheme anyway because the rest of the team around him was so poorly constructed. So having him lock up so much of the Pistons cap space actually forces them to build the team the right way rather than just continuing to throw money at "win now" moves. You're a lot more careful with how you spend your money when you don't have any.
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Re: New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#7 » by Kilo » Sat May 16, 2020 3:24 pm

Wouldn't it be fairer to just cut all salaries by necessary percentage to get under the new cap number? Why would owners agree to lowering the cap but still having to pay the player they choose to cut - they're not saving any money.

And if players don't want to take the hair cut, then the FA class this year is hung out to dry and only looking at MLE deals. That would lead to interesting lockerroom and union dynamics.
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Re: New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#8 » by Uncle Mxy » Mon May 18, 2020 2:21 am

The Knumbnuts Knicks used the Allan Houston rule on JYD of all people, someone who would've otherwise hustled their ass and been a net positive for their contract otherwise. We never used the amnesty stuff well. If they do another one, it'll be amusing.
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Re: New 

Post#9 » by DetroitDon15 » Mon May 18, 2020 10:12 pm

Pharaoh wrote:
GSR121 wrote:My opinion is the league should do this. It would generate a lot of buzz and give teams a needed relief. My picks for who uses it area s follows:

Going from highest salary in 2019/2020 according to Hoopshype.

Por: Trevor Ariza ( good player, overpaid?)

Mia: Kelly Olynyk (replaceable for less)

OKC: Chris Paul (over paid)

Orl: Aaron Gordon (over paid)

LaC: JaMychal Green (replaceable for less)

Min: James Johnson (replaceable for less)

PHI: Mike Scott (replaceable)

Was: John Wall (Hurt too often)

GSW: Andrew Wiggins (salary cap casualty)

Mil: George Hill (bad fit? not needed?)

Cle: Kevin Love (hurt too often)

Den: Gary Harris ( redundant already have Will Barton)

Hou: Russell Westbrook(!) (bad fit huge cap relief)

Det: Blake Griffin (hurt, Huge cap relief)

Mem: Gorgui Dieng (over paid)

Bkl: DeAndre Jordan (over paid, Mistake?)

LaL: Avery Bradley (bad fit)

Dal: Dwight Powell (over paid long contract) was going Hardaway Jr. but gone after the season.

Sas: DeMarre Carroll (over paid)

Tor: Stanley Johnson ( replaceable)

Cha: Nicolas Batum (over paid)

Uta: I don't think they use it.

Phx: Not used

Bos: Gordon Hayward (maybe?)

Sac: Don't use it.

NoP: Don't use it.

Chi: Cristiano Felicio (replaceable)

Atl: Don't use it.

Ind: Malcolm Brogdon (over paid, salary cap victim)

NyN: Julius Randle (replaceable)
No way Hayward, Randle or Brogdon would be dumped IMO

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I see one of two scenarios of this idea is in play.

1) Amnesty Snell

2) Amnesty Griffin and make the same mistakes of the Ben Gordon and Charlie V offseason. :banghead:
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Re: New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#10 » by Crymson » Wed May 20, 2020 4:47 am

While this is a fun exercise in the theoretical sense, I think people are forgetting that amnesty buyouts still require that the applicable salaries be paid. Very few owners will be willing to shell out enormous money in buyouts. The historical leader in buyout salary is Gilbert Arenas at a bit under $36 million; some of the names that have been listed here would be drastically more expensive than that. Griffin himself would cost about $75 million, or more than double Arenas' cost.

Underperforming players on contracts of moderate size would be the most likely buyout candidates, particularly if luxury tax were a concern. The likes of Griffin's salary, Chris Paul's $85 million, and John Wall's $131 million are all but undoubtedly here to stay.

Manocad wrote:I don't want Blake bought out at this point. It's clear that getting him was a mistake, both in the sense that he's not worth the money due to his injuries, but that he didn't move the needle a lot in the grand scheme anyway because the rest of the team around him was so poorly constructed. So having him lock up so much of the Pistons cap space actually forces them to build the team the right way rather than just continuing to throw money at "win now" moves. You're a lot more careful with how you spend your money when you don't have any.


I don't think that Griffin would've been a viable centerpiece in any event. Though he played very well of his own accord last season, he absolutely must be played around yet cannot be effectively played around; his brand of grinding, slow-paced offense doesn't fit the NBA anymore. The Pistons actually had a worse pace differential versus average in 2018-2019 than they had logged the season before. For that matter, they had a worse point differential versus average as well. Both of these were in part the product of the poor team around him, and the difficulty that caused in running an effective offense; but his own mandatory style of play also played a part.
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Re: New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#11 » by DetroitDon15 » Tue Jun 2, 2020 11:22 pm

Crymson wrote:While this is a fun exercise in the theoretical sense, I think people are forgetting that amnesty buyouts still require that the applicable salaries be paid. Very few owners will be willing to shell out enormous money in buyouts. The historical leader in buyout salary is Gilbert Arenas at a bit under $36 million; some of the names that have been listed here would be drastically more expensive than that. Griffin himself would cost about $75 million, or more than double Arenas' cost.

Underperforming players on contracts of moderate size would be the most likely buyout candidates, particularly if luxury tax were a concern. The likes of Griffin's salary, Chris Paul's $85 million, and John Wall's $131 million are all but undoubtedly here to stay.

Manocad wrote:I don't want Blake bought out at this point. It's clear that getting him was a mistake, both in the sense that he's not worth the money due to his injuries, but that he didn't move the needle a lot in the grand scheme anyway because the rest of the team around him was so poorly constructed. So having him lock up so much of the Pistons cap space actually forces them to build the team the right way rather than just continuing to throw money at "win now" moves. You're a lot more careful with how you spend your money when you don't have any.


I don't think that Griffin would've been a viable centerpiece in any event. Though he played very well of his own accord last season, he absolutely must be played around yet cannot be effectively played around; his brand of grinding, slow-paced offense doesn't fit the NBA anymore. The Pistons actually had a worse pace differential versus average in 2018-2019 than they had logged the season before. For that matter, they had a worse point differential versus average as well. Both of these were in part the product of the poor team around him, and the difficulty that caused in running an effective offense; but his own mandatory style of play also played a part.


I agree the Griffin deal looks bad. I will admit though the pieces sent out for him. They haven’t done much. I’d rather hold out hope Griffin can be better to get some sort of trade value.
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Re: New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#12 » by Crymson » Fri Jun 5, 2020 6:02 am

DetroitDon15 wrote:I agree the Griffin deal looks bad. I will admit though the pieces sent out for him. They haven’t done much. I’d rather hold out hope Griffin can be better to get some sort of trade value.


SGA looks like a future All-Star, and was one of the primary assets in the trade that landed the Clippers Paul George. Tobias was traded for two first-round picks, two second-round picks, and a decent starter (Shamet) on a rookie deal. AND the Clippers got rid of a bad contract they wanted gone.

The Clippers made out like bandits. There were literally zero downsides to the trade for them. They fleeced the Pistons of assets in exchange for an bad, unwanted contract, and used those assets to become even richer. They definitively became better than the Pistons the moment they made that trade, and the chasm has only widened since. A season and a half after the trade, their roster was arguably the strongest in the league.

The Pistons got one mostly healthy year of Griffin, a year that went wasted because the trade sent them into salary cap ruin without anything resembling a viable team around him. He's since had two knee surgeries. He has $75 million left on his deal. He has negative trade value. The odds against him becoming healthy enough to regain his value are long. He's now had five knee surgeries across his basketball career, and has been injured year after year.

If he does stay healthy and does play well enough to gain trade value for his final season, he'll have done it by stealing usage from the team's young players, and he'll have helped the Pistons win games they'd have been best off not winning at all.

There's no silver lining here.
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Re: New "Allan Houston" type buy out? (and a little fun too) 

Post#13 » by Pharaoh » Fri Jun 5, 2020 7:15 am

Crymson wrote:
DetroitDon15 wrote:I agree the Griffin deal looks bad. I will admit though the pieces sent out for him. They haven’t done much. I’d rather hold out hope Griffin can be better to get some sort of trade value.


SGA looks like a future All-Star, and was one of the primary assets in the trade that landed the Clippers Paul George. Tobias was traded for two first-round picks, two second-round picks, and a decent starter (Shamet) on a rookie deal. AND the Clippers got rid of a bad contract they wanted gone.

The Clippers made out like bandits. There were literally zero downsides to the trade for them. They fleeced the Pistons of assets in exchange for an bad, unwanted contract, and used those assets to become even richer. They definitively became better than the Pistons the moment they made that trade, and the chasm has only widened since. A season and a half after the trade, their roster was arguably the strongest in the league.

The Pistons got one mostly healthy year of Griffin, a year that went wasted because the trade sent them into salary cap ruin without anything resembling a viable team around him. He's since had two knee surgeries. He has $75 million left on his deal. He has negative trade value. The odds against him becoming healthy enough to regain his value are long. He's now had five knee surgeries across his basketball career, and has been injured year after year.

If he does stay healthy and does play well enough to gain trade value for his final season, he'll have done it by stealing usage from the team's young players, and he'll have helped the Pistons win games they'd have been best off not winning at all.

There's no silver lining here.
This!

Great recap!



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Re: New 

Post#14 » by DetroitDon15 » Fri Jun 5, 2020 1:00 pm

Pharaoh wrote:
Crymson wrote:
DetroitDon15 wrote:I agree the Griffin deal looks bad. I will admit though the pieces sent out for him. They haven’t done much. I’d rather hold out hope Griffin can be better to get some sort of trade value.


SGA looks like a future All-Star, and was one of the primary assets in the trade that landed the Clippers Paul George. Tobias was traded for two first-round picks, two second-round picks, and a decent starter (Shamet) on a rookie deal. AND the Clippers got rid of a bad contract they wanted gone.

The Clippers made out like bandits. There were literally zero downsides to the trade for them. They fleeced the Pistons of assets in exchange for an bad, unwanted contract, and used those assets to become even richer. They definitively became better than the Pistons the moment they made that trade, and the chasm has only widened since. A season and a half after the trade, their roster was arguably the strongest in the league.

The Pistons got one mostly healthy year of Griffin, a year that went wasted because the trade sent them into salary cap ruin without anything resembling a viable team around him. He's since had two knee surgeries. He has $75 million left on his deal. He has negative trade value. The odds against him becoming healthy enough to regain his value are long. He's now had five knee surgeries across his basketball career, and has been injured year after year.

If he does stay healthy and does play well enough to gain trade value for his final season, he'll have done it by stealing usage from the team's young players, and he'll have helped the Pistons win games they'd have been best off not winning at all.

There's no silver lining here.
This!

Great recap!



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You understand that the pick the Pistons sent out was used on Miles Bridges and not SGA? The clippers traded up to get SGA with the Bobcats using the Pistons pick. If the Pistons held the pick, they would not have gotten SGA.

In the relation to moving Tobias Harris, does anyone really believe the Pistons could pull off such a move? This franchise has been notorious for holding players beyond their maximum value. (Drummond, Monroe) to name a few or making bad trades (Griffin, Jennings). It’s foolish to think that our terrible GM (Stan Van Gundy) could have pulled it off.

Is hind site different, yes but to have any faith Detroit could do it. It’s crazy for me to believe such a move could be made. It’s why I think they will make another mistake and take Wiseman.
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Re: New 

Post#15 » by Crymson » Fri Jun 5, 2020 3:12 pm

DetroitDon15 wrote:You understand that the pick the Pistons sent out was used on Miles Bridges and not SGA? The clippers traded up to get SGA with the Bobcats using the Pistons pick. If the Pistons held the pick, they would not have gotten SGA.


The Pistons, who could hardly win a game after Jackson's injury, would have had a much higher pick if not for the trade. They could have done the same as the Clippers in any event, where trading up two picks was concened.

In the relation to moving Tobias Harris, does anyone really believe the Pistons could pull off such a move? This franchise has been notorious for holding players beyond their maximum value. (Drummond, Monroe) to name a few or making bad trades (Griffin, Jennings). It’s foolish to think that our terrible GM (Stan Van Gundy) could have pulled it off.


You said that the assets sent over in the trade haven't done much. That is incorrect. Could the Pistons have pulled off a trade of Tobias for assets? Hard to say. And ultimately irrelevant, because that timeline never transpired. The Pistons instead made a terrible trade for which they're still paying the price now.

The trade was an outright negative at the time it was made, and it remains an outright negative.

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