ImageImageImage

Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules)

Moderators: dVs33, Snakebites, theBigLip

blueadams
Junior
Posts: 352
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 24, 2010

Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#1 » by blueadams » Fri May 29, 2020 10:42 pm

Format/Rules:

-You and the 29 greatest nba minds of all-time (from 1946 to now) are going to be selecting ‘all-time starting-5s’ to compete against each other for 10 nba seasons. The on-court rules are today’s. Everyone gets the same ‘replacement-level’ bench. No trades, FA, holdouts, etc. after the initial selections. Put players at any positions you’d like (i.e. LeBron at C). Clones exist (i.e. MJ can be on all 30 teams). And players are what they were in their primes — nothing more, nothing less (no.. “MJ would’ve been a great 3pt shooter if he practiced it”...“Bird would’ve been a great athlete with modern training”...etc.).

My advice: 1) Be prepared for anything. There’ll be teams that go super-high speed, 5-out, LeBron at C. There’ll be teams that go Shaq-Duncan in the front court. Anyone (any weakness) can knock you out. 2) It’s a marathon. Do you want Shaq coming in overweight every training camp. Do you want MJ pushing everyone to be better. Do you want Kobe alienating teammates. Do you want Rodman dissapearing?

My Team:

C: Hakeem. I want a ‘switch-everything’ defense. Who else can A) handle shaq in the low-post; B) handle MJ on the perimeter; and C) *Demand* a double-team in the low-post?

PF: LeBron. If you’re looking for a true stretch-4 who won’t get killed inside by Ducan/KG/Dirk/Malone/etc.. search begins and ends with one name.

SF: Durant. He’s right there with Kareem, MJ, etc. as one of the greatest scorers to ever live. He’s actually a great defender when he turns it on in the post-season, with switch-everything ability. And like LeBron.. he’s cooperated very well with other superstars.

SG: Kawhi. He may be the most obvious pick of the whole team. 2x F-MVP. 2x D-MVP. 41% career 3pt shooter in the playoffs (better than Steph). Drama-free, dirty-work, team-first-guy.

PG: Jordan. Jordan operating as a Harden-like point-man in today’s penetrate-and-dish league.. with no hand-checking.. and touch fouls. It’d be completely unfair. In fact.. they’d probably even have to roll some rule changes back. If there was one guy you wanted to push your team for 10yrs...IMO, it’d be Zeke or Russell...but I can’t put either in the modern game so I’m going MJ.
Invictus88
Rookie
Posts: 1,126
And1: 358
Joined: Jun 25, 2013

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#2 » by Invictus88 » Fri May 29, 2020 11:04 pm

I think I go with:

PG: Steph Curry
SG: Michael Jordan
SF: Kawhi Leonard
PF: Kevin Durant
PF: Lebron James

I liked the idea of having someone like Hakeem to scoop up boards but the reality is in today's NBA that many of those shots are going to have long rebounds anyway. All of these starting 5 are respectable at getting a fair share of boards and the days of requiring a bona-fide post presence are over.

Remember, it's today's rules and in today's rules it's much more beneficial to hoist 3s.
tmorgan
General Manager
Posts: 8,262
And1: 3,320
Joined: Feb 04, 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
   

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#3 » by tmorgan » Sat May 30, 2020 12:07 am

Ten years, trying to win the most championships... taking Kawhi over a bunch of other elite defenders that are still capable scorers seems wrong. Your replacement level bench is going to get overworked covering his rest days, and he seems to need to be the man to be happy. There have to be better options.

No real arguments about the rest. MJ at point seems a bit iffy, but having LBJ out there mitigates that. Hakeem is a fine choice for modern ball. Durant I’m a bit wary of as well... he’s my second least favorite choice, both for flakiness and some shortcomings in vision and (sometimes) defense.
tmorgan
General Manager
Posts: 8,262
And1: 3,320
Joined: Feb 04, 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
   

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#4 » by tmorgan » Sat May 30, 2020 12:15 am

Oh, i should submit my choices, I suppose:

Magic, MJ, LeBron, Garnett, KAJ.

Ultra switchy with those two bigs. Not as much deep perimeter game as you’d probably want, but plenty of shooting away from the basket. Monstrous defensively except Magic, but his size will do enough and the help will be there. Switching Jordan onto the opposing point if needed. Elite passers at two positions, very good at two more. Potential weaknesses would be a huge big — but unless you take Shaq or Wilt, that’s an issue. Sacrificing some threes for defense should work, but I can see the valid critique.
blueadams
Junior
Posts: 352
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 24, 2010

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#5 » by blueadams » Sat May 30, 2020 4:58 am

tmorgan wrote:Oh, i should submit my choices, I suppose:

Magic, MJ, LeBron, Garnett, KAJ.

Ultra switchy with those two bigs. Not as much deep perimeter game as you’d probably want, but plenty of shooting away from the basket. Monstrous defensively except Magic, but his size will do enough and the help will be there. Switching Jordan onto the opposing point if needed. Elite passers at two positions, very good at two more. Potential weaknesses would be a huge big — but unless you take Shaq or Wilt, that’s an issue. Sacrificing some threes for defense should work, but I can see the valid critique.


Not having one guy in your lineup who shoots over 33% from 3 is a mistake that will cost you greatly. Also.. Kareem switching onto guards on the perimeter wouldn't be pretty at all.. Don't glorify his athleticism, just watch some of his old Milwaukee tape.
blueadams
Junior
Posts: 352
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 24, 2010

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#6 » by blueadams » Sat May 30, 2020 5:01 am

Invictus88 wrote:I think I go with:

PG: Steph Curry
SG: Michael Jordan
SF: Kawhi Leonard
PF: Kevin Durant
PF: Lebron James

I liked the idea of having someone like Hakeem to scoop up boards but the reality is in today's NBA that many of those shots are going to have long rebounds anyway. All of these starting 5 are respectable at getting a fair share of boards and the days of requiring a bona-fide post presence are over.

Remember, it's today's rules and in today's rules it's much more beneficial to hoist 3s.


I see Steph as too much of a liability defensively. I'd do everything I could to get him one-on-one against Hakeem, LeBron, MJ, Durant.. even Kawhi. Anyone on my team lol. If you double or help, a deadly scorer's wide open.

Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem.. any of those guys isolated in the low-post against LeBron could be the end of your dynasty.
Invictus88
Rookie
Posts: 1,126
And1: 358
Joined: Jun 25, 2013

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#7 » by Invictus88 » Sat May 30, 2020 6:15 am

blueadams wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:I think I go with:

PG: Steph Curry
SG: Michael Jordan
SF: Kawhi Leonard
PF: Kevin Durant
PF: Lebron James

I liked the idea of having someone like Hakeem to scoop up boards but the reality is in today's NBA that many of those shots are going to have long rebounds anyway. All of these starting 5 are respectable at getting a fair share of boards and the days of requiring a bona-fide post presence are over.

Remember, it's today's rules and in today's rules it's much more beneficial to hoist 3s.


I see Steph as too much of a liability defensively. I'd do everything I could to get him one-on-one against Hakeem, LeBron, MJ, Durant.. even Kawhi. Anyone on my team lol. If you double or help, a deadly scorer's wide open.

Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem.. any of those guys isolated in the low-post against LeBron could be the end of your dynasty.


The other team has to spend the effort and energy to guard Steph as well. Let them stretch their defense 4 feet beyond the 3-point arc to compensate and see where that gets them.

If they spend their time isolating down low on offense then they aren't passing the ball around or shooting 3s.
I'll take that trade against my 5's ball movement and shooting all day; every day.

Shaq, Kareem, Duncan and Hakeem are basically pointless on the defensive end against my 5. None of them need to be close to the rim to be deadly. Those bigs would be eaten alive having to guard the perimeter.

Thanks for the change of pace topic blue!
blueadams
Junior
Posts: 352
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 24, 2010

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#8 » by blueadams » Sat May 30, 2020 6:42 am

Invictus88 wrote:
blueadams wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:I think I go with:

PG: Steph Curry
SG: Michael Jordan
SF: Kawhi Leonard
PF: Kevin Durant
PF: Lebron James

I liked the idea of having someone like Hakeem to scoop up boards but the reality is in today's NBA that many of those shots are going to have long rebounds anyway. All of these starting 5 are respectable at getting a fair share of boards and the days of requiring a bona-fide post presence are over.

Remember, it's today's rules and in today's rules it's much more beneficial to hoist 3s.


I see Steph as too much of a liability defensively. I'd do everything I could to get him one-on-one against Hakeem, LeBron, MJ, Durant.. even Kawhi. Anyone on my team lol. If you double or help, a deadly scorer's wide open.

Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem.. any of those guys isolated in the low-post against LeBron could be the end of your dynasty.


The other team has to spend the effort and energy to guard Steph as well. Let them stretch their defense 4 feet beyond the 3-point arc to compensate and see where that gets them.

If they spend their time isolating down low on offense then they aren't passing the ball around or shooting 3s.
I'll take that trade against my 5's ball movement and shooting all day; every day.

Shaq, Kareem, Duncan and Hakeem are basically pointless on the defensive end against my 5. None of them need to be close to the rim to be deadly. Those bigs would be eaten alive having to guard the perimeter.

Thanks for the change of pace topic blue!


Thanks, man!

Offensively, I personally think that Hakeem could abuse LeBron in the low-post. Defensively, I think he'd be just fine guarding someone on the perimeter. I'd probably actually try to match him up against LeBron (your worst 3pt shooter) as much as possible. Give him a little space, take away the drive, force challenged 3's.........then run down the court and post him up. I think that's a matchup advantage for my team.

As far as Curry goes.. I'd be comfortable having any of Jordan/Kawhi/LeBron/Durant guarding him. I'd probably have Durant guard Kawhi... your least threatening offensive player. I'd probably have LeBron guard Durant. I'd probably have Kawhi guard MJ. I'd probably have MJ on Curry. And, like I said, Hakeem on LeBron. I'm very comfortable having MJ guard Curry any distance from the basket.. or with any of my other guys who'd have to switch on him.

You though.. 6-2, skinny Curry. You're comfortable with Curry handling 7 foot Durant, 270lb LeBron, Hakeem, MJ.. or even 6-7 2x Finals MVP Kawhi (who actually has a better career playoff 3pt% than Curry) on switches?? Or any of them in just normal defensive settings?

Maybe you disagree. I like my squad vs yours though.
JohnReese
Junior
Posts: 440
And1: 219
Joined: Feb 15, 2016
   

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#9 » by JohnReese » Sat May 30, 2020 2:34 pm

Magic-MJ-Lebron-Bird-Shaq
blueadams
Junior
Posts: 352
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 24, 2010

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#10 » by blueadams » Sat May 30, 2020 4:54 pm

JohnReese wrote:Magic-MJ-Lebron-Bird-Shaq


Did you know that Larry Bird’s career 3pt% in the playoffs was only 32%?? Worse than MJ’s. Way worse than Isiah Thomas’s (35%.. in the playoffs).

Magic’s career 3pt% in the playoffs was... gross.... 24%.
tmorgan
General Manager
Posts: 8,262
And1: 3,320
Joined: Feb 04, 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
   

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#11 » by tmorgan » Sat May 30, 2020 10:32 pm

I forgot why I didn't contribute to these threads for a while and tried again. oops.

Enjoy your dogma, blue. Asking for opinions and then crapping on them is no bueno. Critiquing my choices for weaknesses I'd already pointed out is annoying. And I don't need to watch Lew on tape -- I watched him play. You are wrong.
blueadams
Junior
Posts: 352
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 24, 2010

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#12 » by blueadams » Sun May 31, 2020 3:32 am

tmorgan wrote:I forgot why I didn't contribute to these threads for a while and tried again. oops.

Enjoy your dogma, blue. Asking for opinions and then crapping on them is no bueno. Critiquing my choices for weaknesses I'd already pointed out is annoying. And I don't need to watch Lew on tape -- I watched him play. You are wrong.


:cry: :cry:
blueadams
Junior
Posts: 352
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 24, 2010

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#13 » by blueadams » Sun May 31, 2020 3:35 am

tmorgan wrote:I forgot why I didn't contribute to these threads for a while and tried again. oops.

Enjoy your dogma, blue. Asking for opinions and then crapping on them is no bueno. Critiquing my choices for weaknesses I'd already pointed out is annoying. And I don't need to watch Lew on tape -- I watched him play. You are wrong.


Sounds like your memory’s fading. Watch a 1970 bucks game. Immediately follow it with a 2020 bucks game. Then talk to me about Kareem’s athleticism. Brook Lopez makes him look slow..
JohnReese
Junior
Posts: 440
And1: 219
Joined: Feb 15, 2016
   

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#14 » by JohnReese » Sun May 31, 2020 7:35 am

blueadams wrote:
JohnReese wrote:Magic-MJ-Lebron-Bird-Shaq


Did you know that Larry Bird’s career 3pt% in the playoffs was only 32%?? Worse than MJ’s. Way worse than Isiah Thomas’s (35%.. in the playoffs).

Magic’s career 3pt% in the playoffs was... gross.... 24%.


Allow the same level of contact and then see if Curry or Klay keep the same %
TPA
Sophomore
Posts: 159
And1: 87
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
Location: Lansing
   

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#15 » by TPA » Sun May 31, 2020 6:39 pm

CP3
Jordan
Pippen
LBJ
Olajuwon

Not the greatest three-point shooting squad, but each are adequate enough to be respected and draw defenders at the arch (save for Hakeem). Each are incredible defenders at their positions. Each can get their own shot.
blueadams
Junior
Posts: 352
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 24, 2010

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#16 » by blueadams » Sun May 31, 2020 8:08 pm

TPA wrote:CP3
Jordan
Pippen
LBJ
Olajuwon

Not the greatest three-point shooting squad, but each are adequate enough to be respected and draw defenders at the arch (save for Hakeem). Each are incredible defenders at their positions. Each can get their own shot.


I don’t get why people like Pippen > Kawhi. Kawhi is a much better outside shooter. He’s a 2x F-MVP.. a better scorer. A 2x D-MVP.. arguably a better (or at the very least equal) defender. He brings the ball up the court just as well as Pippen. He passes just as well. Don’t get it.

CP3 I love, for sure. But I just don’t see why you’d put someone on the court who can get switched to and abused in the low-post. Even 6-4 elite defenders.. Payton, Kidd, Frazier.. i think are pushing it. 6-0 CP3 no way, for me.
AnnArborpiston
Sophomore
Posts: 162
And1: 34
Joined: May 27, 2010

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#17 » by AnnArborpiston » Sun May 31, 2020 8:08 pm

Curry
Jordan
Bird
Lebron
Magic

Two of the best three point shooters in history (Curry and Bird). 4 incredible passers in Magic, Lebron, Bird and Curry. And 5 of the all time clutch players. Defense could be a tad weak with curry and Bird, but that's ok. It's a scorers league nowadays.
blueadams
Junior
Posts: 352
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 24, 2010

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#18 » by blueadams » Sun May 31, 2020 9:38 pm

AnnArborpiston wrote:Curry
Jordan
Bird
Lebron
Magic

Two of the best three point shooters in history (Curry and Bird). 4 incredible passers in Magic, Lebron, Bird and Curry. And 5 of the all time clutch players. Defense could be a tad weak with curry and Bird, but that's ok. It's a scorers league nowadays.


Bird was a 32% career 3pt shooter in the playoffs. Isiah Thomas was 35%, in the same era, and at similar volume. Curry and Bird will both hurt you defensively, for sure. Perhaps not as much as Magic trying to guard all-time great centers full-time though.
DCintheD
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,871
And1: 614
Joined: May 30, 2010
   

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#19 » by DCintheD » Sun May 31, 2020 11:20 pm

Chauncey Billups
Rip Hamilton
Tayshaun Prince
Rasheed Wallace
Ben Wallace

:D
RIP PALACE OF AUBURN HILLS
User avatar
Manocad
RealGM
Posts: 62,504
And1: 7,934
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: Middle Fingerton
Contact:
       

Re: Pick your all-time starting-5 (today's rules) 

Post#20 » by Manocad » Mon Jun 1, 2020 12:25 am

blueadams wrote:
tmorgan wrote:I forgot why I didn't contribute to these threads for a while and tried again. oops.

Enjoy your dogma, blue. Asking for opinions and then crapping on them is no bueno. Critiquing my choices for weaknesses I'd already pointed out is annoying. And I don't need to watch Lew on tape -- I watched him play. You are wrong.


Sounds like your memory’s fading. Watch a 1970 bucks game. Immediately follow it with a 2020 bucks game. Then talk to me about Kareem’s athleticism. Brook Lopez makes him look slow..

There's a reason Kareem holds the record for most points scored in a career--the skyhook, which no one shoots anymore and Kareem was an absolute master of, shooting it even from outside--is indefensible. He's third all time in blocks even though blocks weren't recorded until his fourth year in the NBA. He was no slouch on defense. Brook Lopez being "faster" doesn't count for squat. Kareem would eat him alive in the post on both offense and defense.

This another subject skewed by what I'll call the "recency" effect. Are today's NBA players better athletes than in the 50's, 60's, etc.? Sure. But the idea that Kareem's skill level doesn't apply to today's NBA because he played 35 years ago is ridiculous. He was scoring 25 points a game on a team with two other 20 PPG scorers in Magic and Worthy. Stick him on a crappy team with no other serious scoring options and he'd have probably averaged 40+ a game.

Babe Ruth smoked, drank, and was fat. But he hit 60 home runs in a time when ENTIRE TEAMS DIDN'T HIT THAT MANY, literally. The first year he hit 60 he hit more homers than every other team in the league but THREE. Would anyone suggest that if Babe Ruth were alive today he couldn't still be a great hitter? It's not like pitchers could only throw 50 mph at that time; by all accounts pitchers have been throwing 80-100 mph pretty much during baseball's entire history. Or that Wilt Chamberlain couldn't still be a great player in today's NBA when in his peak year he shot 73 freaking percent from the field in a time where shooting percentages were typically lower than they are now? Oh yeah, and there's that 100 point game too. That wasn't played against middle schoolers.

Yeah, humans evolve. We're getting better organically, we have better training, medicine, diets, etc. than in the past. But greatness in any sport isn't solely a function of being a better athlete than your competition. It's more about being a great PLAYER, i.e. a master of the game. And the game of basketball, outside of some rule changes, hasn't changed. It's still just putting a ball through the hoop against a defending player.
Image

Return to Detroit Pistons