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How good were the Pistons with Isaiah?

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Pistons team all time

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5
31%
Top 5
2
13%
Top 10
6
38%
Top 20
3
19%
 
Total votes: 16

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Re: How good were the Pistons with Isaiah? 

Post#21 » by Manocad » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:45 pm

Warspite wrote:IMHO the 1987 Pistons were better than any of the Championship teams.

I'm assuming this means the 86-87 team and not the 87-88 team?

If so I'd be curious as to what your reasoning is. For starters, they didn't make the finals. And the 87-88, 88-89 and 89-90 teams were better in almost all the measured metrics.
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Re: How good were the Pistons with Isaiah? 

Post#22 » by Warspite » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:44 am

Manocad wrote:
Warspite wrote:IMHO the 1987 Pistons were better than any of the Championship teams.

I'm assuming this means the 86-87 team and not the 87-88 team?

If so I'd be curious as to what your reasoning is. For starters, they didn't make the finals. And the 87-88, 88-89 and 89-90 teams were better in almost all the measured metrics.


The 87 team had a prime Adrian Dantley, a healthier Isiah, Mahorn and a younger Laimbeer, Vinnie. They had the Celtics down twice in that series. The same Celtics team that was a mere 9 months from being crowned the GOAT team. They lost in 7 games and most likely shouldnt have been taken to 7 games by the 1 year removed GOAT team. Its my contention that the 87 Celtics would beat any playoff team the Pistons faced in 89 or 90.

The 89 and 90 much like 04 team were slightly above .500 before they made huge moves (Aguirre, Sheed trade and Rodman starting) and went on huge end of season runs. The 87 team was consistently great. The only player that is better in 89,90 than 87 on offense is Dumars while Rodman is the only player improved on defense.
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Re: How good were the Pistons with Isaiah? 

Post#23 » by Warspite » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:51 am

Uncle Mxy wrote:Yeah, I know what he said. But, 1988 has Buddha, has Dumars/Rodman/Salley being another year better and them getting to the Finals (and being robbed by the phantom foul/Kareem's travel), etc. I'd take 1988 over 1987.


Dantley was a year older and he had declined. Isiahs injury in 88 helped excuse that Dantley lost the 88 Finals and went from being the Finals MVP to being the reason why Worthy was the FMVP by guarding him during his triple double in game 7.
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Re: How good were the Pistons with Isaiah? 

Post#24 » by Manocad » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:41 am

Warspite wrote:
Manocad wrote:
Warspite wrote:IMHO the 1987 Pistons were better than any of the Championship teams.

I'm assuming this means the 86-87 team and not the 87-88 team?

If so I'd be curious as to what your reasoning is. For starters, they didn't make the finals. And the 87-88, 88-89 and 89-90 teams were better in almost all the measured metrics.


The 87 team had a prime Adrian Dantley, a healthier Isiah, Mahorn and a younger Laimbeer, Vinnie. They had the Celtics down twice in that series. The same Celtics team that was a mere 9 months from being crowned the GOAT team. They lost in 7 games and most likely shouldnt have been taken to 7 games by the 1 year removed GOAT team. Its my contention that the 87 Celtics would beat any playoff team the Pistons faced in 89 or 90.

The 89 and 90 much like 04 team were slightly above .500 before they made huge moves (Aguirre, Sheed trade and Rodman starting) and went on huge end of season runs. The 87 team was consistently great. The only player that is better in 89,90 than 87 on offense is Dumars while Rodman is the only player improved on defense.

Why don't the moves the team made during the season count toward how good the team was? Aren't those moves part of the game? Isiah played 81, 81, 80 and 81 games in the 1986-1990 seasons. It wasn't until 1990-91 that he was injured. And while his peak PPG in those four seasons was indeed 20.6 in 1986-87, his lowest PPG was still 18.4 in 1989-90. That's one bucket.

Rodman went from 6.5/4.3 to 11.6/8.7. Salley went from 5.3/3.6 to 8.5/4.9. The fact that Isiah threw that inbound pass away is part of the game. You can't the play the "Well, if that hadn't happened..." game. It's not like the phantom foul on Laimbeer in '88; Isiah screwed up which probably cost them the series and a trip to the finals. Sure, it's only one play. But that single bad play still defines the team.

In the grand scheme I'd put both the 1988-89 and 2003-04 teams against anyone but those crazy good Bulls teams and expect them to do really well. The 1988-89 team because not only were they stacked and playing that rough and tumble defense that drove the opponents nuts, but that was a team of destiny. That team had as much fire and intensity of any Detroit team I've ever seen. The 2003-04 team was a defensive juggernaut. That streak of holding opponents below 70 points a game--70 POINTS A GAME--was absolutely nuts. And it wasn't a beat them up Bad Boys defense; it was a defense that works in any era.
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Re: How good were the Pistons with Isaiah? 

Post#25 » by Uncle Mxy » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:34 pm

Warspite wrote:
Uncle Mxy wrote:Yeah, I know what he said. But, 1988 has Buddha, has Dumars/Rodman/Salley being another year better and them getting to the Finals (and being robbed by the phantom foul/Kareem's travel), etc. I'd take 1988 over 1987.


Dantley was a year older and he had declined. Isiahs injury in 88 helped excuse that Dantley lost the 88 Finals and went from being the Finals MVP to being the reason why Worthy was the FMVP by guarding him during his triple double in game 7.

The Pistons were on a 6-game winning streak when Dantley was traded, a streak in which Dantley averaged 22ppg on 60% FG shooting. Dantley's decline happened the moment he was traded, not before, and was entirely mental. He didn't want to be traded at the cusp on a championship, didn't want to play in Dallas. The funk he got from that trade ended his career. Otherwise, I bet he'd have played at a high level until he was 40.

Rodman wasn't able stop Worthy in 1988 Game 7 either. It was kind of a miracle that Isiah could play at all. Once Isiah hobbled off, we blew a lead and we never recovered. I'd love to get the +/- for some of these Finals games.
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Re: How good were the Pistons with Isaiah? 

Post#26 » by Global Game » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:14 pm

I spent the early part of this Covid-19 era watching 1900's Pistons games on Youtube.

1982 - 1994, lots of games.

Isiah's ability to change the momentum of games scoring, assist, rebounds, steals, deflections, saves.
He'd go on runs and next thing you know, the Pistons have the mojo.
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Re: How good were the Pistons with Isaiah? 

Post#27 » by Global Game » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:46 pm

The 1989 title is as good as any team ever.
Even without the physical play, those teams were monsters on defense.

Rodman, Salley and Mahorn were defending everyone. 1 to 5.

James Edwards took the team to the next level. He could score and was solid on defense.

They had 8 players who in a seven game series could take over at least one game.
Isiah was good for taking over 3 games in a 7 game series. Dumars 2 games.
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Re: How good were the Pistons with Isiah? 

Post#28 » by Global Game » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:04 pm

It's a shame they didn't reload properly.

They should have kept Michael Williams or drafted someone else.

They had the opportunity to draft Clifford Robinson (89), Vlade Divac (89) Tony Kukoc (90), and Steve Kerr (88), Anthony Mason (88), Vernon Maxwell (88), Grant Long (88).
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Re: How good were the Pistons with Isaiah? 

Post#29 » by SamFlow » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:10 am

Canadafan wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Who's Isaiah?


Ya this always been one of my pet peeves lol. Not a big deal but soooo many people spell it wrong.



I always remember how to spell it by remembering IZZEY AHH ... isi ah.

instead of.. Is a eya
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Re: How good were the Pistons with Isiah? 

Post#30 » by Uncle Mxy » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:37 pm

Global Game wrote:It's a shame they didn't reload properly.

They should have kept Michael Williams or drafted someone else.

We traded MichEAl Williams to move up three draft slots for some guy we lowballed (pre rookie-scale contracts), so he ended up in Europe. We held on, got nothing when he finally came to the NBA. Trader Jack's moves after trading Dantley were all ugh. Lance "Shooting" Blanks, anyone? We needed more William Bedford and traded away Buddha for hot garbage? Ugh.

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