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Dumars now interim GM of the Kings

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Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#1 » by Invictus88 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:10 pm

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29663545/vlade-divac-steps-kings-gm-joe-dumars-assume-role

The Vivek and Dumars brain trust. What could go wrong?

We should immediately try to trade Blake Griffin to the Kings for picks.... (mild sarcasm here)
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#2 » by Cowology » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:17 pm

I wish him well. Just not against us.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#3 » by chrbal » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:24 pm

If he can lose the interim title and become there actual gm, i think he could help them out
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#4 » by flow » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:52 am

Happy for Joe. He certainly deserved another opportunity.

Remember, prior to screwing it all up, he built an entire championship team pretty much from scratch. Not a lot of guys have that on their resume these days.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#5 » by dVs33 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:15 am

As a congratulatory gift we should send him an all NBA star, Blake, for some young nobody like fox. Just to help him get started there.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#6 » by bstein14 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:25 pm

His assembly of the going to work Pistons was probably the best GM job of anyone in the league over the last 35 years.

Outside of last years Raptors, every other championship team drafted (or traded for a draft pick in Kobe's situation) a hall of game all time great player or had one come in FA. You just don't win championships without draft guys that are top 5 players in the league or landing them as FAs, which most often comes down to where a player wants to play not as much on a gm landing someone.

84 Celtics = Bird
85 Lakers = Magic
86 Celtics = Bird
87 Lakers = Magic
88 Lakers = Magic
89 Pistons = Thomas
90 Pistons = Thomas
91, 92, 93 Bulls = MJ
94, 95 Rockets = Dream
96, 97, 97 Bulls = MJ
99, 03, 05, 07, 14 Spurs = Duncan
00, 01, 02 Lakers = Shaq + Kobe
04 Pistons = ALL TIME GREAT GM JOB trading for Big Ben, Sheed, RIP, signing Billups for MLE & drafting Prince/Okur
06 Heat = Wade
08 Celtics = Pierce, but also great GM Job collecting young talent and trading farm for KG and Allen
09, 10 Lakers = Kobe
11 Mavericks = Dirk
12, 13 Miami = Wade, but also Lebron choosing to go there
15, 17, 18 Warriors = Curry
16 Cavs = Drafted Lebron who decided to return
19 Raptors = ALL TIME GREAT GM JOB, rolled dice to trade for Leonard, drafted young star is Siakam
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#7 » by JNewton » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:42 pm

Dumars is, of course, to be lauded for his role (alongside John Hammond) for building the Goin' To Work Pistons. He will always be one of the most important figures in franchise history for his accomplishments as a player and the first half of his GM stint, and it is a shame that he seems to have a grudge against the organization for the way his GM tenure here ended. However, it cannot be overlooked that he was by far the worst executive in the NBA from 2009 to 2014. I maintain that the 2013-14 Pistons roster (the Mo Cheeks year) was perhaps the worst in the history of the team.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#8 » by Snakebites » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:38 pm

JNewton wrote:Dumars is, of course, to be lauded for his role (alongside John Hammond) for building the Goin' To Work Pistons. He will always be one of the most important figures in franchise history for his accomplishments as a player and the first half of his GM stint, and it is a shame that he seems to have a grudge against the organization for the way his GM tenure here ended. However, it cannot be overlooked that he was by far the worst executive in the NBA from 2009 to 2014. I maintain that the 2013-14 Pistons roster (the Mo Cheeks year) was perhaps the worst in the history of the team.


His legacy is a complicated one- no sense pretending it isn’t.

He’s been out of the organization for over half a decade now but we shouldn’t let nostalgia cloud the view here.

Not a reason not to wish the man well, but yeah...a case can be made that he rarely made a good personnel move after like 2005.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#9 » by jakebernat » Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:59 pm

to his credit, dumars acknowledged that the league was changing to positionless basketball far before small ball really took off. he tried to get a jump start on that by drafting guys like daye (yikes) and jerebko, but he also destroyed any chance we had at building a competent roster by handing out ridiculous money to gordon, villanueva, and josh smith.

all that being said, i wish him well. maybe he’ll give us a 1st for kennard :nod:
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#10 » by chrbal » Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:29 pm

Snakebites wrote:
JNewton wrote:Dumars is, of course, to be lauded for his role (alongside John Hammond) for building the Goin' To Work Pistons. He will always be one of the most important figures in franchise history for his accomplishments as a player and the first half of his GM stint, and it is a shame that he seems to have a grudge against the organization for the way his GM tenure here ended. However, it cannot be overlooked that he was by far the worst executive in the NBA from 2009 to 2014. I maintain that the 2013-14 Pistons roster (the Mo Cheeks year) was perhaps the worst in the history of the team.


His legacy is a complicated one- no sense pretending it isn’t.

He’s been out of the organization for over half a decade now but we shouldn’t let nostalgia cloud the view here.

Not a reason not to wish the man well, but yeah...a case can be made that he rarely made a good personnel move after like 2005.


Really wanted to prove you wrong. But after looking it up, you might be giving him too much credit for after 2005
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#11 » by Crymson » Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:31 pm

Snakebites wrote:
JNewton wrote:Dumars is, of course, to be lauded for his role (alongside John Hammond) for building the Goin' To Work Pistons. He will always be one of the most important figures in franchise history for his accomplishments as a player and the first half of his GM stint, and it is a shame that he seems to have a grudge against the organization for the way his GM tenure here ended. However, it cannot be overlooked that he was by far the worst executive in the NBA from 2009 to 2014. I maintain that the 2013-14 Pistons roster (the Mo Cheeks year) was perhaps the worst in the history of the team.


His legacy is a complicated one- no sense pretending it isn’t.

He’s been out of the organization for over half a decade now but we shouldn’t let nostalgia cloud the view here.

Not a reason not to wish the man well, but yeah...a case can be made that he rarely made a good personnel move after like 2005.


Agreed on both. He made some great moves up to 2004, but I'd say it was all downhill after the Sheed trade. He rode those moves until 2008, a period over which he drafted poorly and managed personnel poorly; after winning the championship, the Pistons rapidly became a team with little real depth and scant young talent in the system. From 2008 onward, he was egregiously terrible at his job.

I look at him as a guy who had a lot of initial success in building a team but could not maintain it and could absolutely not replicate it. Given that he would fail disastrously in his next two attempts at rebuilding the roster, I think that his success in constructing the core of the championship team came almost by happenstance; nobody could have envisioned that group having such a great degree of synergy. He had his strengths, but they were outweighed by his weaknesses. To this day, he strikes me as an amateur general manager who had his flashes of brilliance but also simply saw a lot of things fortuitously go his way.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#12 » by Snakebites » Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:55 pm

chrbal wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
JNewton wrote:Dumars is, of course, to be lauded for his role (alongside John Hammond) for building the Goin' To Work Pistons. He will always be one of the most important figures in franchise history for his accomplishments as a player and the first half of his GM stint, and it is a shame that he seems to have a grudge against the organization for the way his GM tenure here ended. However, it cannot be overlooked that he was by far the worst executive in the NBA from 2009 to 2014. I maintain that the 2013-14 Pistons roster (the Mo Cheeks year) was perhaps the worst in the history of the team.


His legacy is a complicated one- no sense pretending it isn’t.

He’s been out of the organization for over half a decade now but we shouldn’t let nostalgia cloud the view here.

Not a reason not to wish the man well, but yeah...a case can be made that he rarely made a good personnel move after like 2005.


Really wanted to prove you wrong. But after looking it up, you might be giving him too much credit for after 2005

Yeah, I said "rarely" because I didn't want someone bringing up an isolated move- but I do think that time frame I give is correct. From 2006-08 we were largely coasting off of the core that was already in place. During that time we really didn't augment or add to the core in a way that would allow the good times to continue, nor did we set ourselves up for a fast-rebuild...obviously.

Getting Dice for the MLE was good. Beyond that...
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#13 » by jakebernat » Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:00 pm

Snakebites wrote:
chrbal wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
His legacy is a complicated one- no sense pretending it isn’t.

He’s been out of the organization for over half a decade now but we shouldn’t let nostalgia cloud the view here.

Not a reason not to wish the man well, but yeah...a case can be made that he rarely made a good personnel move after like 2005.


Really wanted to prove you wrong. But after looking it up, you might be giving him too much credit for after 2005

Yeah, I said "rarely" because I didn't want someone bringing up an isolated move- but I do think that time frame I give is correct. From 2006-08 we were largely coasting off of the core that was already in place. During that time we really didn't augment or add to the core in a way that would allow the good times to continue, nor did we set ourselves up for a fast-rebuild...obviously.

Getting Dice for the MLE was good. Beyond that...


will bynum? he was definitely one of my favorites pistons over the last decade-plus.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#14 » by Snakebites » Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:07 pm

jakebernat wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
chrbal wrote:
Really wanted to prove you wrong. But after looking it up, you might be giving him too much credit for after 2005

Yeah, I said "rarely" because I didn't want someone bringing up an isolated move- but I do think that time frame I give is correct. From 2006-08 we were largely coasting off of the core that was already in place. During that time we really didn't augment or add to the core in a way that would allow the good times to continue, nor did we set ourselves up for a fast-rebuild...obviously.

Getting Dice for the MLE was good. Beyond that...


will bynum? he was definitely one of my favorites pistons over the last decade-plus.

Yeah, like I said, you can probably find a minor move here or there that was fine- but the overall package beyond 2005 is largely regrettable.

And Bynum really only stands out because every other move around that time was such trash.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#15 » by JNewton » Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:08 pm

Snakebites wrote:
chrbal wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
His legacy is a complicated one- no sense pretending it isn’t.

He’s been out of the organization for over half a decade now but we shouldn’t let nostalgia cloud the view here.

Not a reason not to wish the man well, but yeah...a case can be made that he rarely made a good personnel move after like 2005.


Really wanted to prove you wrong. But after looking it up, you might be giving him too much credit for after 2005

Yeah, I said "rarely" because I didn't want someone bringing up an isolated move- but I do think that time frame I give is correct. From 2006-08 we were largely coasting off of the core that was already in place. During that time we really didn't augment or add to the core in a way that would allow the good times to continue, nor did we set ourselves up for a fast-rebuild...obviously.

Getting Dice for the MLE was good. Beyond that...


There were some OK moves. The 2007 draft was decent. Rodney Stuckey (yes, Rodney Stuckey) was a capable NBA player for about a decade, I don't blame him that he was essentially asked to be Dwyane Wade which he obviously wasn't capable of. Afflalo had a couple of really good seasons in Denver after Dumars gave him away for the cap space to sign Chris friggin' Wilcox in the wake of handing a monster contract to Ben Gordon. He snagged Middleton in the 2nd round, although there's certainly a good chance that was just dumb luck. I even don't rail him on for the Billups/Iverson trade, it was what he did with the cap space that turned that move into a disaster. But overall, yes, post McDyess, his tenure was not good. Some of that I blame on Davidson for refusing to pay luxury tax, which is why I cite 2009 as the start of him being the worst executive in the league.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#16 » by Snakebites » Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:29 pm

JNewton wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
chrbal wrote:
Really wanted to prove you wrong. But after looking it up, you might be giving him too much credit for after 2005

Yeah, I said "rarely" because I didn't want someone bringing up an isolated move- but I do think that time frame I give is correct. From 2006-08 we were largely coasting off of the core that was already in place. During that time we really didn't augment or add to the core in a way that would allow the good times to continue, nor did we set ourselves up for a fast-rebuild...obviously.

Getting Dice for the MLE was good. Beyond that...


There were some OK moves. The 2007 draft was decent. Rodney Stuckey (yes, Rodney Stuckey) was a capable NBA player for about a decade, I don't blame him that he was essentially asked to be Dwyane Wade which he obviously wasn't capable of. Afflalo had a couple of really good seasons in Denver after Dumars gave him away for the cap space to sign Chris friggin' Wilcox in the wake of handing a monster contract to Ben Gordon. He snagged Middleton in the 2nd round, although there's certainly a good chance that was just dumb luck. I even don't rail him on for the Billups/Iverson trade, it was what he did with the cap space that turned that move into a disaster. But overall, yes, post McDyess, his tenure was not good. Some of that I blame on Davidson for refusing to pay luxury tax, which is why I cite 2009 as the start of him being the worst executive in the league.

I don’t give him credit for draft picks he made that he got rid of before they took off. Middleton was give away as a trade throw in (we chose to keep Singler over him) while Afflalo was kicked to the curb as a salary dump to add some awful contracts- a draft pick doesn’t count in the win column if you give up on them before they do anything.

And you can’t talk about the Stuckey pick without also talking about moving Chauncey because he thought Stuckey was ready. Is it really a good draft pick if he has a totally misguided perception of what the player was capable of and made moves based on that?

He wasn’t the absolute worst between 2005 and 2008, but he wasn’t all that good.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#17 » by JNewton » Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:34 pm

Snakebites wrote:
JNewton wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Yeah, I said "rarely" because I didn't want someone bringing up an isolated move- but I do think that time frame I give is correct. From 2006-08 we were largely coasting off of the core that was already in place. During that time we really didn't augment or add to the core in a way that would allow the good times to continue, nor did we set ourselves up for a fast-rebuild...obviously.

Getting Dice for the MLE was good. Beyond that...


There were some OK moves. The 2007 draft was decent. Rodney Stuckey (yes, Rodney Stuckey) was a capable NBA player for about a decade, I don't blame him that he was essentially asked to be Dwyane Wade which he obviously wasn't capable of. Afflalo had a couple of really good seasons in Denver after Dumars gave him away for the cap space to sign Chris friggin' Wilcox in the wake of handing a monster contract to Ben Gordon. He snagged Middleton in the 2nd round, although there's certainly a good chance that was just dumb luck. I even don't rail him on for the Billups/Iverson trade, it was what he did with the cap space that turned that move into a disaster. But overall, yes, post McDyess, his tenure was not good. Some of that I blame on Davidson for refusing to pay luxury tax, which is why I cite 2009 as the start of him being the worst executive in the league.

He wasn’t the absolute worst between 2005 and 2008, but he wasn’t all that good.


That's probably the CliffsNotes summary of my post.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#18 » by chrbal » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:34 pm

JNewton wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
chrbal wrote:
Really wanted to prove you wrong. But after looking it up, you might be giving him too much credit for after 2005

Yeah, I said "rarely" because I didn't want someone bringing up an isolated move- but I do think that time frame I give is correct. From 2006-08 we were largely coasting off of the core that was already in place. During that time we really didn't augment or add to the core in a way that would allow the good times to continue, nor did we set ourselves up for a fast-rebuild...obviously.

Getting Dice for the MLE was good. Beyond that...


There were some OK moves. The 2007 draft was decent. Rodney Stuckey (yes, Rodney Stuckey) was a capable NBA player for about a decade, I don't blame him that he was essentially asked to be Dwyane Wade which he obviously wasn't capable of. Afflalo had a couple of really good seasons in Denver after Dumars gave him away for the cap space to sign Chris friggin' Wilcox in the wake of handing a monster contract to Ben Gordon. He snagged Middleton in the 2nd round, although there's certainly a good chance that was just dumb luck. I even don't rail him on for the Billups/Iverson trade, it was what he did with the cap space that turned that move into a disaster. But overall, yes, post McDyess, his tenure was not good. Some of that I blame on Davidson for refusing to pay luxury tax, which is why I cite 2009 as the start of him being the worst executive in the league.



I can’t give credit on Middleton or Afflalo because he gave up too early and gave them away.

You look up dumars as a gm on basketball reference and you can almost pinpoint the time he lost his mojo. The Villanueva, Gordon, Wilcox offseason.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#19 » by Crymson » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:14 pm

chrbal wrote:You look up dumars as a gm on basketball reference and you can almost pinpoint the time he lost his mojo. The Villanueva, Gordon, Wilcox offseason.


It happened long before that. The atrophy began immediately after the championship. Fortunately for Dumars, he could still lean upon the core of the roster. When that core's decline became apparent, his ineptitude became apparent; embarking upon a reconstruction of the team was not a bad idea, but he could hardly have gone about it more incompetently. His second attempt to do so went even more terribly.

He was subsequently fired and replaced by a similarly incompetent general manager who likewise left the team in shambles upon his departure. Fun times for Pistons fans!

Not coincidentally, only Kings fans have had it worse in the period since the Chauncey trade.
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Re: Dumars now interim GM of the Kings 

Post#20 » by hoophabit » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:01 pm

Dumars presided during the decline and death of Bill Davidson. The even more disastrous 'Karen cash out campaign' followed. Dumars was a great player. He ranks among Piston greats. Hope he does well, except against the Pistons of course.

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