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Blake for Horford?

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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#41 » by sc8581 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:44 am

Invictus88 wrote:
sc8581 wrote:
Manocad wrote:That’s not an answer to my question. I know what Horford and Ball are. What is your expected outcome by adding then to the team via trading away two first round picks?


Trading away two first round picks and also receiving two first round picks. Immediate expected outcome or long term? Immediate, win a playoff series, be competitive in 2nd round. Long term, surround a true PG with shooting and defense, hopefully Sekou eventually turns into something resembling a #1 scoring option, 20ppg guy and efficient.


And this is how we treadmill boys. No patience. Trade away long term assets for short immediate gains.

Horford is 34 right now and has 1 more year than Blake. It's one of the worst contracts in the league and we'd get back a late round 1st in a weak draft.

Lonzo is arguably a middling pg at this point and just signed up with Rich Paul, so you can guarantee he will be overpriced. You want to give up a lottery pick this year and what will undeniably be a high pick next year for that and #13 this year.

This is how you doom a franchise for years.

This is realGM. Maybe this came from JoeD or SVG? Joe? Are you bored in Sacramento? SVG? Is that tv gig getting old?

Just terrible.


I didn't say next years pick, nice reading. Horford isn't overpaid, just shows you don't know what good basketball looks like. If you don't think Lonzo is worth a late future first, I don't know what to tell you.
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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#42 » by sc8581 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:48 am

chrbal wrote:
Manocad wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:
And this is how we treadmill boys. No patience. Trade away long term assets for short immediate gains.

Horford is 34 right now and has 1 more year than Blake. It's one of the worst contracts in the league and we'd get back a late round 1st in a weak draft.

Lonzo is arguably a middling pg at this point and just signed up with Rich Paul, so you can guarantee he will be overpriced. You want to give up a lottery pick this year and what will undeniably be a high pick next year for that and #13 this year.

This is how you doom a franchise for years.

This is realGM. Maybe this came from JoeD or SVG? Joe? Are you bored in Sacramento? SVG? Is that tv gig getting old?

Just terrible.

Ding ding ding. Winner


Once I saw snell for Horford, we hang onto Blake, and trade for lonzo.,.. I skipped it over because I knew the person couldn’t be reasoned with


I just remembered why I stopped coming on this board, nobody knows **** about basketball here and very little reading comprehension.
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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#43 » by chrbal » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:06 am

sc8581 wrote:
chrbal wrote:
Manocad wrote:Ding ding ding. Winner


Once I saw snell for Horford, we hang onto Blake, and trade for lonzo.,.. I skipped it over because I knew the person couldn’t be reasoned with


I just remembered why I stopped coming on this board, nobody knows **** about basketball here and very little reading comprehension.


Healthy. Horford and Blake would make a bad front court in terms of spacing. Lonzo is intriguing, but it’s not worth giving up the 7th for lonzo on his last year of his rookie deal. Be mad, I just don’t think your plan is reasonable.

Blake for al makes sense for us, I just don’t see Philadelphia doing that.

Most of your draft plan is ok.
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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#44 » by Manocad » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:12 am

sc8581 wrote:
chrbal wrote:
Manocad wrote:Ding ding ding. Winner


Once I saw snell for Horford, we hang onto Blake, and trade for lonzo.,.. I skipped it over because I knew the person couldn’t be reasoned with


I just remembered why I stopped coming on this board, nobody knows **** about basketball here and very little reading comprehension.

Don’t know what to tell you, man. Some us just don’t think “building a contending team” means starting out with a 34 year old overpaid player.
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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#45 » by Pharaoh » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:40 am

edmunder_prc wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:So the idea is to copy what Miami & Boston have done using inferior talent and that's how we'll win?

I don't include the Raps in there due to their soon to be free agents. I don't include the Bucks cause who knows what they'll do.

Then there's Philly - not to mention any West teams!

No one seems to mention that the reason the Heat, Raps, Bucks & Celtics have had so much success is their system and coaching.

Spo, Nurse, Stevens (& regular season Bud) are all exceptional

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Thats what rebuilding means. We dont know who the talent will be, or who might get a lot better in the future (Sekou? / Kennard?)

Did the Heat know that Bam and Duncan Robinson and Nunn would be so good? I hope not, or else its over for the rest of the league.

They looked at guys, picked ones they hoped would get better. Then played them a lot trying to get them to improve.


Then we have Detroit. The season is over and we're trying to tank. Pistons dumped Reggie and Dre.

So instead of playing Khyri and Donte Hall and Louis King. We're bringing in McRae to play big minutes. Just play Louis King. Give him a green light. Play him with Bruce Brown and see what happens.

Instead of playing Henson, play Donte Hall 25 minutes a night, more if he is playing well. If he isnt playing well. The team is tanking, right?

Dwayne Casey is not a horrible coach, hes mediocre. Which is OK for now. If every team had Nurse and Stevens that would make the NBA a lot more fun to watch, but talent is scarce.

So what choices CAN the team make to improve LONG TERM? Play the young guys. What does Detroit do? Play aging vets on expiring deals? That is not rebuilding by finding new young talent or trying to build up some young guys that already show promise.
I'm of the belief the Heat don't draft players with skills and hope they improve.

I believe they draft, acquire and sign players with a certain mindset and that collective group works to improve.

Not only do we not draft the right mindset we haven't had that kind of environment since Ben & Chauncey were here.

Easy to say Joe D caught lightning in a bottle - much harder to admit that as we got further and further away from that group we lost sight of what's required.

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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#46 » by dVs33 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:16 am

Spot on. The heat seem to have a solid system/culture in place which starts at the top with Riley. It's why most of their FA and draftees all seem to work out, because they buy in.
It seems like we draft and sign guys in the hopes they work out, but there doesn't seem like there's a clear plan in place.
Ellenson "dropped" to us, so we take a gamble on him. They didn't even bring him in for work outs and all that. That screams of throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks. We're not going anywhere with gores demanding playoffs. We need a GM with a
Plan/system and he or she needs to freedom to follow it
Pharaoh wrote:
edmunder_prc wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:So the idea is to copy what Miami & Boston have done using inferior talent and that's how we'll win?

I don't include the Raps in there due to their soon to be free agents. I don't include the Bucks cause who knows what they'll do.

Then there's Philly - not to mention any West teams!

No one seems to mention that the reason the Heat, Raps, Bucks & Celtics have had so much success is their system and coaching.

Spo, Nurse, Stevens (& regular season Bud) are all exceptional

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app


Thats what rebuilding means. We dont know who the talent will be, or who might get a lot better in the future (Sekou? / Kennard?)

Did the Heat know that Bam and Duncan Robinson and Nunn would be so good? I hope not, or else its over for the rest of the league.

They looked at guys, picked ones they hoped would get better. Then played them a lot trying to get them to improve.


Then we have Detroit. The season is over and we're trying to tank. Pistons dumped Reggie and Dre.

So instead of playing Khyri and Donte Hall and Louis King. We're bringing in McRae to play big minutes. Just play Louis King. Give him a green light. Play him with Bruce Brown and see what happens.

Instead of playing Henson, play Donte Hall 25 minutes a night, more if he is playing well. If he isnt playing well. The team is tanking, right?

Dwayne Casey is not a horrible coach, hes mediocre. Which is OK for now. If every team had Nurse and Stevens that would make the NBA a lot more fun to watch, but talent is scarce.

So what choices CAN the team make to improve LONG TERM? Play the young guys. What does Detroit do? Play aging vets on expiring deals? That is not rebuilding by finding new young talent or trying to build up some young guys that already show promise.
I'm of the belief the Heat don't draft players with skills and hope they improve.

I believe they draft, acquire and sign players with a certain mindset and that collective group works to improve.

Not only do we not draft the right mindset we haven't had that kind of environment since Ben & Chauncey were here.

Easy to say Joe D caught lightning in a bottle - much harder to admit that as we got further and further away from that group we lost sight of what's required.

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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#47 » by ByeByeDre » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:18 am

....which leads me to worry when our number one pick from last year GETS FIRED BY HIS AGENT.
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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#48 » by Pharaoh » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:23 am

dVs33 wrote:Spot on. The heat seem to have a solid system/culture in place which starts at the top with Riley. It's why most of their FA and draftees all seem to work out, because they buy in.
It seems like we draft and sign guys in the hopes they work out, but there doesn't seem like there's a clear plan in place.
Ellenson "dropped" to us, so we take a gamble on him. They didn't even bring him in for work outs and all that. That screams of throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks. We're not going anywhere with gores demanding playoffs. We need a GM with a
Plan/system and he or she needs to freedom to follow it
Pharaoh wrote:
edmunder_prc wrote:
Thats what rebuilding means. We dont know who the talent will be, or who might get a lot better in the future (Sekou? / Kennard?)

Did the Heat know that Bam and Duncan Robinson and Nunn would be so good? I hope not, or else its over for the rest of the league.

They looked at guys, picked ones they hoped would get better. Then played them a lot trying to get them to improve.


Then we have Detroit. The season is over and we're trying to tank. Pistons dumped Reggie and Dre.

So instead of playing Khyri and Donte Hall and Louis King. We're bringing in McRae to play big minutes. Just play Louis King. Give him a green light. Play him with Bruce Brown and see what happens.

Instead of playing Henson, play Donte Hall 25 minutes a night, more if he is playing well. If he isnt playing well. The team is tanking, right?

Dwayne Casey is not a horrible coach, hes mediocre. Which is OK for now. If every team had Nurse and Stevens that would make the NBA a lot more fun to watch, but talent is scarce.

So what choices CAN the team make to improve LONG TERM? Play the young guys. What does Detroit do? Play aging vets on expiring deals? That is not rebuilding by finding new young talent or trying to build up some young guys that already show promise.
I'm of the belief the Heat don't draft players with skills and hope they improve.

I believe they draft, acquire and sign players with a certain mindset and that collective group works to improve.

Not only do we not draft the right mindset we haven't had that kind of environment since Ben & Chauncey were here.

Easy to say Joe D caught lightning in a bottle - much harder to admit that as we got further and further away from that group we lost sight of what's required.

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Not just ol' King Henry.

When was the last time we "hit" on a draft pick and they developed above whatever the general expectation was?

Spencer and Middleton don't count cause we didn't develop them.

Kinda says a lot about the organisation and it's general direction that if you asked fans today what we're about they couldn't answer.

****, we can't answer it!

Rebuilding? Young guys and prospects

Retooling? Quick hit fix in FA

Restoring? Going back to our roots?



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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#49 » by dVs33 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:36 am

Reading that hurt, but it's all true.
What team are they trying to build here? No one can say. Looking at successful Detroit teams, they've shared the same DNA. Strong defensively and tough. We should stick to that.
I can't remember the last time I could say that about a pistons team.
It's almost like they're actively going against that idea. Ellenson, sekou, kennard (I actually don't mind Luke tho), Drummond... the list goes on. Soft and questionable defence.
Retooling, rebuild, restorations it's all nonsense without a plan.
As much as I want a fresh rebuild, I could live with a "retool" if theres a clear goal not just trying to get the most expensive FA.

Im not sold on Casey, but that's a whole other discussion haha
Pharaoh wrote:
dVs33 wrote:Spot on. The heat seem to have a solid system/culture in place which starts at the top with Riley. It's why most of their FA and draftees all seem to work out, because they buy in.
It seems like we draft and sign guys in the hopes they work out, but there doesn't seem like there's a clear plan in place.
Ellenson "dropped" to us, so we take a gamble on him. They didn't even bring him in for work outs and all that. That screams of throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks. We're not going anywhere with gores demanding playoffs. We need a GM with a
Plan/system and he or she needs to freedom to follow it
Pharaoh wrote:I'm of the belief the Heat don't draft players with skills and hope they improve.

I believe they draft, acquire and sign players with a certain mindset and that collective group works to improve.

Not only do we not draft the right mindset we haven't had that kind of environment since Ben & Chauncey were here.

Easy to say Joe D caught lightning in a bottle - much harder to admit that as we got further and further away from that group we lost sight of what's required.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app
Not just ol' King Henry.

When was the last time we "hit" on a draft pick and they developed above whatever the general expectation was?

Spencer and Middleton don't count cause we didn't develop them.

Kinda says a lot about the organisation and it's general direction that if you asked fans today what we're about they couldn't answer.

****, we can't answer it!

Rebuilding? Young guys and prospects

Retooling? Quick hit fix in FA

Restoring? Going back to our roots?



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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#50 » by Pharaoh » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:35 pm

dVs33 wrote:Reading that hurt, but it's all true.
What team are they trying to build here? No one can say. Looking at successful Detroit teams, they've shared the same DNA. Strong defensively and tough. We should stick to that.
I can't remember the last time I could say that about a pistons team.
It's almost like they're actively going against that idea. Ellenson, sekou, kennard (I actually don't mind Luke tho), Drummond... the list goes on. Soft and questionable defence.
Retooling, rebuild, restorations it's all nonsense without a plan.
As much as I want a fresh rebuild, I could live with a "retool" if theres a clear goal not just trying to get the most expensive FA.

Im not sold on Casey, but that's a whole other discussion haha
Pharaoh wrote:
dVs33 wrote:Spot on. The heat seem to have a solid system/culture in place which starts at the top with Riley. It's why most of their FA and draftees all seem to work out, because they buy in.
It seems like we draft and sign guys in the hopes they work out, but there doesn't seem like there's a clear plan in place.
Ellenson "dropped" to us, so we take a gamble on him. They didn't even bring him in for work outs and all that. That screams of throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks. We're not going anywhere with gores demanding playoffs. We need a GM with a
Plan/system and he or she needs to freedom to follow it
Not just ol' King Henry.

When was the last time we "hit" on a draft pick and they developed above whatever the general expectation was?

Spencer and Middleton don't count cause we didn't develop them.

Kinda says a lot about the organisation and it's general direction that if you asked fans today what we're about they couldn't answer.

****, we can't answer it!

Rebuilding? Young guys and prospects

Retooling? Quick hit fix in FA

Restoring? Going back to our roots?



Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app
I believe you can still have that kind of culture and DNA in the league - Miami are the obvious example of that.

But one look at their roster shows you that versatility, a mix of vets and kids, shooting & a truckload of intangibles is required.

The Heat have had the same culture ever since Riley went there after New York! The league has changed so much since then but their mindset and culture hasn't.

And every year they've made moves to win games, never tanked, acquired vets to win more while unearthing kids outside the top 10 (or undrafted dudes!)

Whatever they're doing works!

And to name other teams who always seem to do most things right:

OKC
Brooklyn since Marks arrived
Memphis
Boston
Denver

Yeah they've all had down years or periods but not for too long.

Meanwhile there's a bunch of teams with zero clue:

New York
Sacramento
Cleveland
Chicago
Detroit


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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#51 » by dVs33 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:22 am

Toughness and defence are ways going to be the cornerstones to good teams.

I just hope gores takes a step back and stops pushing for playoffs. They keep pushing this idea that Detroit sports fans are smart and deserve a winning team but they keep trotting out mediocre nonsense.
Let weaver put his plan in place, and hopefully for all of us, it's a good one.
Pharaoh wrote:
dVs33 wrote:Reading that hurt, but it's all true.
What team are they trying to build here? No one can say. Looking at successful Detroit teams, they've shared the same DNA. Strong defensively and tough. We should stick to that.
I can't remember the last time I could say that about a pistons team.
It's almost like they're actively going against that idea. Ellenson, sekou, kennard (I actually don't mind Luke tho), Drummond... the list goes on. Soft and questionable defence.
Retooling, rebuild, restorations it's all nonsense without a plan.
As much as I want a fresh rebuild, I could live with a "retool" if theres a clear goal not just trying to get the most expensive FA.

Im not sold on Casey, but that's a whole other discussion haha
Pharaoh wrote:Not just ol' King Henry.

When was the last time we "hit" on a draft pick and they developed above whatever the general expectation was?

Spencer and Middleton don't count cause we didn't develop them.

Kinda says a lot about the organisation and it's general direction that if you asked fans today what we're about they couldn't answer.

****, we can't answer it!

Rebuilding? Young guys and prospects

Retooling? Quick hit fix in FA

Restoring? Going back to our roots?



Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app
I believe you can still have that kind of culture and DNA in the league - Miami are the obvious example of that.

But one look at their roster shows you that versatility, a mix of vets and kids, shooting & a truckload of intangibles is required.

The Heat have had the same culture ever since Riley went there after New York! The league has changed so much since then but their mindset and culture hasn't.

And every year they've made moves to win games, never tanked, acquired vets to win more while unearthing kids outside the top 10 (or undrafted dudes!)

Whatever they're doing works!

And to name other teams who always seem to do most things right:

OKC
Brooklyn since Marks arrived
Memphis
Boston
Denver

Yeah they've all had down years or periods but not for too long.

Meanwhile there's a bunch of teams with zero clue:

New York
Sacramento
Cleveland
Chicago
Detroit


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Re: Blake for Horford? 

Post#52 » by Crymson » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:48 pm

dVs33 wrote:Looking at successful Detroit teams, they've shared the same DNA. Strong defensively and tough. We should stick to that.


Success was found with that style 15+ years ago. The NBA has changed a great deal in the interim.

dVs33 wrote:Toughness and defence are ways going to be the cornerstones to good teams.


So sorry, but that's just not true. I know we all pine for the days of winning through tough, hardworking, shutdown-defense Detroit Basketball, but those days are definitively done. The NBA all but killed them through changes to the rules, and the evolution of modern NBA offense did the rest. Toughness and defense will always be important, but offense is king. Period. You win or lose on offense. Superstar scoring talent is the key commodity toward winning championships. The rest is important but secondary.

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