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Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year.

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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#21 » by NYPiston » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:02 pm

This is obvious and it's why I've been scoffing at those who think the Pistons are in a rebuild and will be really bad again next season. It took a whole bunch of injuries to all their best players for the Pistons to tank to bottom 5.

As long as Griffin and Rose are even remotely healthy to go along with Kennard and Wood, this will be a team that competes for the 8th seed in the horrific east rather than tanking for a high draft pick. Of course serious injuries could easily throw them into rebuild mode again but as of right now with the roster as is, and this is assuming they don't spend big in free agency, this is NOT a team in full rebuild. Sorry, it sucks but it is what it is. It's still a team in NBA mediocrity purgatory until these veterans get moved.

To clarify, I don't think management is intentionally trying to disregard a rebuild, it's more like they're stuck with a team that's in no mans' land mainly because of the Blake contract and Rose signing. It'll be tough to truly rebuild with those guys relatively healthy. They are still very much in a transition phase.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#22 » by MotownMadness » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:33 pm

NYPiston wrote:This is obvious and it's why I've been scoffing at those who think the Pistons are in a rebuild and will be really bad again next season. It took a whole bunch of injuries to all their best players for the Pistons to tank to bottom 5.

As long as Griffin and Rose are even remotely healthy to go along with Kennard and Wood, this will be a team that competes for the 8th seed in the horrific east rather than tanking for a high draft pick. Of course serious injuries could easily throw them into rebuild mode again but as of right now with the roster as is, and this is assuming they don't spend big in free agency, this is NOT a team in full rebuild. Sorry, it sucks but it is what it is. It's still a team in NBA mediocrity purgatory until these veterans get moved.

To clarify, I don't think management is intentionally trying to disregard a rebuild, it's more like they're stuck with a team that's in no mans' land mainly because of the Blake contract and Rose signing. It'll be tough to truly rebuild with those guys relatively healthy. They are still very much in a transition phase.

Next years top 10 looks pretty loaded too, would suck if we miss the lottery
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#23 » by Manocad » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:35 pm

NYPiston wrote:This is obvious and it's why I've been scoffing at those who think the Pistons are in a rebuild and will be really bad again next season. It took a whole bunch of injuries to all their best players for the Pistons to tank to bottom 5.

As long as Griffin and Rose are even remotely healthy to go along with Kennard and Wood, this will be a team that competes for the 8th seed in the horrific east rather than tanking for a high draft pick. Of course serious injuries could easily throw them into rebuild mode again but as of right now with the roster as is, and this is assuming they don't spend big in free agency, this is NOT a team in full rebuild. Sorry, it sucks but it is what it is. It's still a team in NBA mediocrity purgatory until these veterans get moved.

To clarify, I don't think management is intentionally trying to disregard a rebuild, it's more like they're stuck with a team that's in no mans' land mainly because of the Blake contract and Rose signing. It'll be tough to truly rebuild with those guys relatively healthy. They are still very much in a transition phase.

The only way an attempt to compete this year will be obvious is AFTER that big free agent is signed, not before. I agree the team is in a transition phase but would argue that the transition is TOWARD rebuilding, not away from it.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#24 » by Snakebites » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:36 pm

We could still be really bad without a tank this year, let’s be clear. This year could be as bad or worse than last year.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#25 » by NYPiston » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:46 pm

Manocad wrote:
NYPiston wrote:.

The only way an attempt to compete this year will be obvious is AFTER that big free agent is signed, not before. I agree the team is in a transition phase but would argue that the transition is TOWARD rebuilding, not away from it.


I don't disagree that they are trending towards a rebuild (the beginning of that transition) but I disagree that they only compete if they sign a big free agent. This team, if it's relatively healthy, is going to likely compete for an 8th seed in the crappy easy and would have last year as well even without Reggie and after the Drummond trade if Blake had been healthy so I just can't see them being in competition for a top 5 pick, maybe on the edge of the bottom 10 if Griffin's knees are done.
Of course, a lot can happen between now and the beginning of the season so we'll see.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#26 » by Manocad » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:48 pm

Snakebites wrote:We could still be really bad without a tank this year, let’s be clear. This year could be as bad or worse than last year.

Yeah, that's definitely the part that's "obvious" to me. They were 7-11 before Blake went out (38.9% WP) and 13-35 after he went out (37.1% WP). I'm not sure how anyone can justify that they're competing for jack diddly just because he's hypothetically healthy the whole season. A 38% WP is 31-51 over 82 games; I don't see where that puts the team in the "competing" conversation. More like the "treadmill" conversation.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#27 » by NYPiston » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:04 pm

Manocad wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Yeah, that's definitely the part that's "obvious" to me. They were 7-11 before Blake went out (38.9% WP) and 13-35 after he went out (37.1% WP). I'm not sure how anyone can justify that they're competing for jack diddly just because he's hypothetically healthy the whole season. A 38% WP is 31-51 over 82 games; I don't see where that puts the team in the "competing" conversation. More like the "treadmill" conversation.


31-51 would have put them right in that 9-11 mediocre draft range that they've been in for so many years, assuming they don't luckily win one of the lotteries, and I think they have potential for more wins than that assuming they're healthy and sign a significant free agent.

My point is that so many people are talking about bad the Pistons will be next season but the fact of the matter is that there's a lot of teams that are worse, lots of really bad teams out there even worse than the Pistons. I just don't think the Pistons will be as bad as people think they will be.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#28 » by Billl » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:07 pm

Manocad wrote:
Snakebites wrote:We could still be really bad without a tank this year, let’s be clear. This year could be as bad or worse than last year.

Yeah, that's definitely the part that's "obvious" to me. They were 7-11 before Blake went out (38.9% WP) and 13-35 after he went out (37.1% WP). I'm not sure how anyone can justify that they're competing for jack diddly just because he's hypothetically healthy the whole season. A 38% WP is 31-51 over 82 games; I don't see where that puts the team in the "competing" conversation. More like the "treadmill" conversation.


Blake started the year hurt and then shut it down. He was never healthy. I doubt he's ever fully healthy for a full season, but we might well get 50 games out of a rested blake and have him performing at a very high level....before inevitably getting hurt again.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#29 » by Snakebites » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:12 pm

Billl wrote:
Manocad wrote:
Snakebites wrote:We could still be really bad without a tank this year, let’s be clear. This year could be as bad or worse than last year.

Yeah, that's definitely the part that's "obvious" to me. They were 7-11 before Blake went out (38.9% WP) and 13-35 after he went out (37.1% WP). I'm not sure how anyone can justify that they're competing for jack diddly just because he's hypothetically healthy the whole season. A 38% WP is 31-51 over 82 games; I don't see where that puts the team in the "competing" conversation. More like the "treadmill" conversation.


Blake started the year hurt and then shut it down. He was never healthy. I doubt he's ever fully healthy for a full season, but we might well get 50 games out of a rested blake and have him performing at a very high level....before inevitably getting hurt again.

It’s possible, sure. On average injury problems get worse as a player gets older though.

A free agent signing is a total wildcard here, but I don’t see us landing a Vanvleet or someone similar. That’s the only way I’d characterize it as particularly likely that we get better. Otherwise it’s a crapshoot.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#30 » by Manocad » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:15 pm

NYPiston wrote:
Manocad wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Yeah, that's definitely the part that's "obvious" to me. They were 7-11 before Blake went out (38.9% WP) and 13-35 after he went out (37.1% WP). I'm not sure how anyone can justify that they're competing for jack diddly just because he's hypothetically healthy the whole season. A 38% WP is 31-51 over 82 games; I don't see where that puts the team in the "competing" conversation. More like the "treadmill" conversation.


31-51 would have put them right in that 9-11 mediocre draft range that they've been in for so many years, assuming they don't luckily win one of the lotteries, and I think they have potential for more wins than that assuming they're healthy and sign a significant free agent.

My point is that so many people are talking about bad the Pistons will be next season but the fact of the matter is that there's a lot of teams that are worse, lots of really bad teams out there even worse than the Pistons. I just don't think the Pistons will be as bad as people think they will be.

If they're healthy and if they sign a significant free agent. You're using those if's to prop up your argument when right now they haven't signed a significant free agent nor are there any concrete signs they're going to, and Blake being healthy for a whole season a year older and coming off yet another knee surgery is pretty unlikely IMO. That's the counter to your argument and it's no more unlikely than yours is; one is simply the converse of the other.

Either way, the only concrete evidence of what the team is planning to do is what they DO do. Or doo doo, as may very well be the case.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#31 » by Pharaoh » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:43 pm

I'd like to think that we removed Dre, Reggie and Morris because it became obvious to the braintrust that it was time to get off the treadmill.

We were shopping Luke to Phoenix but couldn't agree on protections of their pick.

We were shopping Rose but couldn't get a unprotected first for him either.

That combo of events doesn't = "being competitive" to me.

Those events point to a rebuild but they just don't want to use that word cause we've been rebuilding forever.

The choice of the word restore is just BS marketing stuff IMO.

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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#32 » by ByeByeDre » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:55 pm

If the Pistons trade Rose, they’re looking at a top 5 pick next year. Rose is the best at creating his shot with little time left on the clock. The rest can’t really do that.

Collect picks, play young guys, let another team overpay Wood, play Blake on a minutes restriction to promote him a little, let the losses mount. Big time pick next year.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#33 » by thesack12 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:59 pm

Pharaoh wrote:I'd like to think that we removed Dre, Reggie and Morris because it became obvious to the braintrust that it was time to get off the treadmill.

We were shopping Luke to Phoenix but couldn't agree on protections of their pick.

We were shopping Rose but couldn't get a unprotected first for him either.

That combo of events doesn't = "being competitive" to me.

Those events point to a rebuild but they just don't want to use that word cause we've been rebuilding forever.

The choice of the word restore is just BS marketing stuff IMO.

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None of Dre/Reggie/Kennard were brought in by the current regime, they were all incumbents from the prior regime. That being the case, those guys being moved/shopped/not retained/etc could just be a simple example of wanting to move on from them and get their own "guys."

Only Rose/Sekou/Snell qualify as the current regime's "guys." Its very easy to envison that the intention of the recent cap clearing was to create an avenue to bring in more of their own guys.

I said it before and I'll say it again, until this team does something tangible to clearly signify they are rebuilding I will remain very skeptical.

I don't trust Casey and Stefanski, 2 dudes in their 60's and obviously on their last chance, nor Tom "Mr Playoff mandate" Gores to have any type of long term vision.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#34 » by mattao313 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:06 pm

thesack12 wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:I'd like to think that we removed Dre, Reggie and Morris because it became obvious to the braintrust that it was time to get off the treadmill.

We were shopping Luke to Phoenix but couldn't agree on protections of their pick.

We were shopping Rose but couldn't get a unprotected first for him either.

That combo of events doesn't = "being competitive" to me.

Those events point to a rebuild but they just don't want to use that word cause we've been rebuilding forever.

The choice of the word restore is just BS marketing stuff IMO.

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None of Dre/Reggie/Kennard were brought in by the current regime, they were all incumbents from the prior regime. That being the case, those guys being moved/shopped/not retained/etc could just be a simple example of wanting to move on from them and get their own "guys."

Only Rose/Sekou/Snell qualify as the current regime's "guys." Its very easy to envison that the intention of the recent cap clearing was to create an avenue to bring in more of their own guys.

I said it before and I'll say it again, until this team does something tangible to clearly signify they are rebuilding I will remain very skeptical.

I don't trust Casey and Stefanski, 2 dudes in their 60's and obviously on their last chance, nor Tom "Mr Playoff mandate" Gores to have any type of long term vision.

Yeah I think you're right. when they traded Drummond I was thinking rebuild but now with all this little stuff about signing guys and competing nah just the same ole Pistons.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#35 » by ByeByeDre » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:19 am

thesack12 wrote:I said it before and I'll say it again, until this team does something tangible to clearly signify they are rebuilding I will remain very skeptical.

I don't trust Casey and Stefanski, 2 dudes in their 60's and obviously on their last chance, nor Tom "Mr Playoff mandate" Gores to have any type of long term vision.


Very well said. Rumor was Rose didn’t like the trade that the Pistons had set up at the deadline, so Arn squashed it. Made me want to puke when I heard that. The Pistons can’t go in a direction - any direction. It’s nauseating. Must. Blow. Up......
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#36 » by bstein14 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:23 am

The fact the Pistons didn't trade Rose last year, makes me believe that they never really were willing to commit to a rebuild. It's a shame ownership didn't/won't commit to a full rebuild where we really focus on giving the young guys the ball and seeing if any of them can grow into young stars. Sometimes this league is about opportunities as seen by Christian Wood's season.

Our best case is to lock Wood into a reasonable 4 year contract for about 4 years $50 million, sign Kennard to a reasonable extension at about $10 million per year, and then give them both the keys and green light and see how they do as the top two offensive options on the team and try to surround them with young role players who can play both ends of the floor.

We really need to invest in our young guys and look to add more young guys that just need a chance to get out on the floor show what they can do.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#37 » by Pharaoh » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:43 am

bstein14 wrote:The fact the Pistons didn't trade Rose last year, makes me believe that they never really were willing to commit to a rebuild. It's a shame ownership didn't/won't commit to a full rebuild where we really focus on giving the young guys the ball and seeing if any of them can grow into young stars. Sometimes this league is about opportunities as seen by Christian Wood's season.

Our best case is to lock Wood into a reasonable 4 year contract for about 4 years $50 million, sign Kennard to a reasonable extension at about $10 million per year, and then give them both the keys and green light and see how they do as the top two offensive options on the team and try to surround them with young role players who can play both ends of the floor.

We really need to invest in our young guys and look to add more young guys that just need a chance to get out on the floor show what they can do.
I think we can still invest in our young giys without dumping Rose by any means necessary.

Wood 30 - Patton 18 = young as

Griffin 28 - Sekou 20 = is what it is

Sekou 10 - koro 28 - Svi 10 = young as

Luke 28 - Svi 20 = young as

Brown 26 - Rose 22 = is what it is

That's 9 dudes.

Add Bone, King, Thomas, Snell = 13 on the roster.

Add a vet big.

Young team, invested in the kids

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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#38 » by Manocad » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:40 am

Billl wrote:
Manocad wrote:
Snakebites wrote:We could still be really bad without a tank this year, let’s be clear. This year could be as bad or worse than last year.

Yeah, that's definitely the part that's "obvious" to me. They were 7-11 before Blake went out (38.9% WP) and 13-35 after he went out (37.1% WP). I'm not sure how anyone can justify that they're competing for jack diddly just because he's hypothetically healthy the whole season. A 38% WP is 31-51 over 82 games; I don't see where that puts the team in the "competing" conversation. More like the "treadmill" conversation.


Blake started the year hurt and then shut it down. He was never healthy. I doubt he's ever fully healthy for a full season, but we might well get 50 games out of a rested blake and have him performing at a very high level....before inevitably getting hurt again.

Sure, but even with Reggie and Dre the Pistons were 41-41 during arguably Blake's best season of his career.

I just consider the odds. The odds aren't with Blake having another generally injury-free all-world season, thus the odds the team could achieve just a .500 record aren't good.

As I've argued previously, if you consider a reasonable outcome for this team outside of players who get moved, there are no options available that would make this a 55+ win team. Not Van Vleet or anybody plus anybody else.
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#39 » by DBC10 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:27 am

mattao313 wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:I'd like to think that we removed Dre, Reggie and Morris because it became obvious to the braintrust that it was time to get off the treadmill.

We were shopping Luke to Phoenix but couldn't agree on protections of their pick.

We were shopping Rose but couldn't get a unprotected first for him either.

That combo of events doesn't = "being competitive" to me.

Those events point to a rebuild but they just don't want to use that word cause we've been rebuilding forever.

The choice of the word restore is just BS marketing stuff IMO.

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None of Dre/Reggie/Kennard were brought in by the current regime, they were all incumbents from the prior regime. That being the case, those guys being moved/shopped/not retained/etc could just be a simple example of wanting to move on from them and get their own "guys."

Only Rose/Sekou/Snell qualify as the current regime's "guys." Its very easy to envison that the intention of the recent cap clearing was to create an avenue to bring in more of their own guys.

I said it before and I'll say it again, until this team does something tangible to clearly signify they are rebuilding I will remain very skeptical.

I don't trust Casey and Stefanski, 2 dudes in their 60's and obviously on their last chance, nor Tom "Mr Playoff mandate" Gores to have any type of long term vision.

Yeah I think you're right. when they traded Drummond I was thinking rebuild but now with all this little stuff about signing guys and competing nah just the same ole Pistons.


Yeah. It's fairly easy to make the argument that they got rid of Dre and Reggie as a way to soft reboot the roster while freeing up having to pay them on their extensions and instead to other free agents as buyers for next offseason. It's a putrid future if (when?) we go this option but it's still a chance that could occur and likelier trending higher in percentage now with these statements from the front office

Getting rid of Drummond was end of an era, but it didn't really signify a rebuild looking back at it. I guess I was more happier getting rid of Drummond and us possibly having to max him out again
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Re: Pistons are not rebuilding. Plan to compete next year. 

Post#40 » by 440BB » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:08 am

Cutting Drummond loose before he could exercise his option for next year was a great relief in itself. It's likely the step Stefanski needed to take to make Detroit more attractive to Weaver as well.

As much as they're using different descriptions of the near future, the action they took in hiring Weaver shows progress in the overall thinking about how to build a team. That Stefanski cleaned things up over two years with Weaver in mind is another sign of a better plan. I expect they'll say a lot of positive things while they wait to get out from under Blake's contract. With the delays in the draft and the new season all they can do at this point is talk.

It's the actions Weaver takes over the next two years building a foundation that matter.

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