Taking on salary for picks

Post #1 » by **Snakebites** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 6:56 pm

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30221719/giannis-antetokounmpo-future-all-star-trades-nba-draft-everything-else-watch-offseason

It's a minor blurb in that article, a little below the Giannis picture. It more or less says that while we're interested in Fred Van Vleet, the interest likely won't extend to the kind of contract he's looking for. They've signaled they may be more interested in taking on extra salary for picks.

New York and Detroit are obvious VanVleet fits, but their interest in a VanVleet megadeal in the $20 million-per-year range is unclear. Detroit has telegraphed to other teams that it would rather operate as a dumping ground for unwanted salaries, hoarding picks in the process, sources say.

So, I figured it might make for interesting discussion.

1) Are you interested in taking on money for picks as a general strategy?

2) How long-term are you willing for that money to be, and what quality of pick would be necessary to take on an unfavorable long term deal?

3) Which teams might be willing to make deals like that with us?

NYPiston · Post #2 » by **NYPiston** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 7:14 pm

My god I hope this is true and will go a long way towards Weaver gaining my trust in that he's implementing a real plan. This is exactly what I've been preaching for the Pistons to do, take on bad contracts with picks. Tighter cap likely putting teams in a further cap crunch, Pistons with lots of cap space, strong free agent class in 2021 potentially and strong 2021 draft potentially. Perfect opportunity for the Pistons to accumulate picks and build a talent base.

Offhand, I don't know any specific situation that offers a fit currently but it's encouraging that this is being rumored.

Post #3 » by **Snakebites** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 7:21 pm

NYPiston wrote:My god I hope this is true and will go a long way towards Weaver gaining my trust in that he's implementing a real plan. This is exactly what I've been preaching for the Pistons to do, take on bad contracts with picks. Tighter cap likely putting teams in a further cap crunch, Pistons with lots of cap space, strong free agent class in 2021 potentially and strong 2021 draft potentially. Perfect opportunity for the Pistons to accumulate picks and build a talent base.

Offhand, I don't know any specific situation that offers a fit currently but it's encouraging that this is being rumored.

More of a hypothetical.

To be more specific, would you be willing to take on unwanted salary that ends at the same time as Blake for a pick? If so, how much and how good a pick?

What would it take to entice you to dip in the the cap space we'd have AFTER Blake?

NYPiston · Post #4 » by **NYPiston** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 7:30 pm

Snakebites wrote:
NYPiston wrote:More of a hypothetical.

To be more specific, would you be willing to take on unwanted salary that ends at the same time as Blake for a pick? If so, how much and how good a pick?

What would it take to entice you to dip in the the cap space we'd have AFTER Blake?

Yes I'd be willing to take on a bloated two year contract to get the pick but of course the level of pick will depend on how bloated.

Chances are that a team looking to clear cap is some sort of contender or looking to vault to contender status so we're not talking about high 1sts here so I'd be looking at targeting multiple picks in that case. It's tough to be specific without a name attached or seeing how the market plays out.

bstein14 · Post #5 » by **bstein14** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 7:32 pm

So there's really two types of contracts. Ones that last just one season, for teams who are looker to clear space or get under the luxury tax level this year. Those seem like the best case scenario for us because it would leave us with a bunch of cap space next summer as well.

Then there's the longer 2+ year contracts that teams want to move to clear space for next summer's FA. These contracts I think we'd be foolish to take on unless the player is younger and has some upside as well or the draft pick compensation is really good.

Right now teams in the luxury tax level include Golden State, Philly, Boston, Brooklyn and Houston.

Then there are a bunch of teams that are close to the luxury tax level and can't spend mle type money without going over.

Post #6 » by **Snakebites** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 7:33 pm

NYPiston wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
NYPiston wrote:More of a hypothetical.

To be more specific, would you be willing to take on unwanted salary that ends at the same time as Blake for a pick? If so, how much and how good a pick?

What would it take to entice you to dip in the the cap space we'd have AFTER Blake?

Yes I'd be willing to take on a bloated two year contract to get the pick but of course the level of pick will depend on how bloated.

Chances are that a team looking to clear cap is some sort of contender or looking to vault to contender status so we're not talking about high 1sts here so I'd be looking at targeting multiple picks in that case.

Yeah, that’s true enough.

There’s always the chance you get some deluded mid-lower level team that thinks there one guy away though.

Remember, we gave up a lotto pick in a win-now move.

Not saying we’d get something that high, but mid-late teens, or a pick in the long term that could end up being solid are not out of the question.

NYPiston · Post #7 » by **NYPiston** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 7:43 pm

Snakebites wrote:
NYPiston wrote:
Snakebites wrote:

Yeah, that’s true enough.

There’s always the chance you get some deluded mid-lower level team that thinks there one guy away though.

Remember, we gave up a lotto pick in a win-now move.

Not saying we’d get something that high, but mid-late teens, or a pick in the long term that could end up being solid are not out of the question.

For sure. Especially in a draft like this that's supposed to be strong, mid to late teens in the 2021 draft could be as valuable as the Pistons #7 this draft for example.

It's a real opportunity for the Pistons to build a nice foundation and it's encouraging that Weaver is at least considering taking this route.

bstein14 · Post #8 » by **bstein14** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 7:50 pm

One interesting trade would be:

Detroit trades: Tony Snell + Rose
Boston trades: Gordon Hayward + #14

Boston drops itself out of the luxury tax level, and Hayward reportedly wants out instead of that 6th man role he is in behind Tatum and Brown.

Billl · Post #9 » by **Billl** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 7:53 pm

Yes, obviously. That's a rebuild 101 move. Obviously you don't want to be taking on bad 4 year deals for second rounders, but we should be stockpiling as many picks as we can over the next several years.

Invictus88 · Post #10 » by **Invictus88** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 8:25 pm

1) 100%

2) Depends on where we see ourselves when Blake's contract is complete. If we don't yet think we will be there from a competitive standpoint (I personally don't) then using the extra room to garner even better pick packages seems like an obvious choice. Draft picks are cheap from a salary to value standpoint.

The only thing we need cap space for otherwise is to retain assets that we think will directly (via on-court production) or indirectly (as future trade pieces) enable our franchise to progress towards contending for a championship. Right now we don't have a lot in that area so the beed for cap space to reserve for it should be low.

3) I honestly haven't looked to see what is out there and which teams still own their own picks. Dream scenario is we find a contending team that is a piece away, is very cap-strapped and has somehow acquired a 2021 or later 1st from a bad team. We'd then act as a dumping ground for that team; possibly in the form of a 3 way deal with the piece they want.

chrbal · Post #11 » by **chrbal** » Thu Nov 5, 2020 8:27 pm

Snakebites wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30221719/giannis-antetokounmpo-future-all-star-trades-nba-draft-everything-else-watch-offseason

It's a minor blurb in that article, a little below the Giannis picture. It more or less says that while we're interested in Fred Van Vleet, the interest likely won't extend to the kind of contract he's looking for. They've signaled they may be more interested in taking on extra salary for picks.

So, I figured it might make for interesting discussion.

1) Are you interested in taking on money for picks as a general strategy?

2) How long-term are you willing for that money to be, and what quality of pick would be necessary to take on an unfavorable long term deal?

3) Which teams might be willing to make deals like that with us?

1- with where we are at in the rebuild, absolutely step 1, we definitely should do it.

2- differs from team to team. Naturally the Pistons would need to look at the return. But you figure that we can’t really move to forward for the two seasons of Blake we have left. Would prefer to keep cap open for the next trade deadline and offseason.

3- Philadelphia has 5 picks, are over the cap, and have some bad fits. Boston has 3 1sts and a whole bunch of players to make decisions on. They are around or over the cap. Then you have teams like Milwaukee, Indiana, the Clippers and some others that will need to tweak their rosters. More often then not we’d have to be a 3rd team situation, but that’s fine.

pistons · Post #12 » by **pistons** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 12:07 am

Doubt Golden State would offer this but do we do this ?

Wiggins + #2 + 2021 Minnesota pick

Kennard + #7

thesack12 · Post #13 » by **thesack12** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 12:29 am

Billl wrote:Yes, obviously. That's a rebuild 101 move. Obviously you don't want to be taking on bad 4 year deals for second rounders, but we should be stockpiling as many picks as we can over the next several years.

+1

Detroit should always employ this type of strategy anytime they have cap space. It has been blatantly obvious for 10+ years that they aren't going to be able to attract any impactful free agents short of a massive overpay, in which case its still a bad signing just another type of one.

Crymson · Post #14 » by **Crymson** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 1:39 am

pistons wrote:Doubt Golden State would offer this but do we do this ?

Wiggins + #2 + 2021 Minnesota pick

Kennard + #7

Terrible value for GS. They get worse AND lose a high pick and a probable lottery pick. Wiggins isn't a negative-value player for them.

edmunder_prc · Post #15 » by **edmunder_prc** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 2:42 am

Thank the Lord!

That is the entire point of being bad in the NBA. Dump the junk on us. Give those guys big minutes. Hopefully trade them for even more in the last year of their contracts.

Get more picks!

Just play Sekou, Brown (Wood?) and picks -- with a bunch of other teams bad contracts and the picks we get.

Post #16 » by **Snakebites** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 2:42 am

Crymson wrote:
pistons wrote:Doubt Golden State would offer this but do we do this ?

Wiggins + #2 + 2021 Minnesota pick

Kennard + #7

Terrible value for GS. They get worse AND lose a high pick and a probable lottery pick. Wiggins isn't a negative-value player for them.

Yeah. I wish...

Manocad · Post #17 » by **Manocad** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 3:23 am

Absolutely. I'd be ok with the bad money even going out to three years if the return in picks was substantial. And has been stated, if those overpaid guys want minutes that won't really help the team win, great. Obviously the team should be careful with that on a position by position basis, i.e. you don't want to take on two bad money players looking for starter minutes that would cause Sekou to be buried on the bench at 5 minutes a game. But outside of that scenario I don't think there is a single player on the roster right now that you could say has earned the right to start over a bad money veteran who may not make the team better (which is fine) but based on experience/contract "deserves" (quotes because I use the term lightly) to start. And if it's a bad money player who knows he isn't worth his contract and is happy to just cheer lead from the bench and get a fat check, allowing the young guys to get the bulk of the minutes, even better.

TPA · Post #18 » by **TPA** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 4:02 am

Teams should be throwing their ugliest, most pick-laden offers at us NOW before we decide to re-sign guys like Wood, or any other FA's in this off-season. Nice move by Weaver. Let's see the offers.

baldur · Post #19 » by **baldur** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 4:04 am

pistons wrote:Doubt Golden State would offer this but do we do this ?

Wiggins + #2 + 2021 Minnesota pick

Kennard + #7

That Minnesota pick has a very good chance to become the 5th or 6th pick.

whitehops · Post #20 » by **whitehops** » Fri Nov 6, 2020 4:18 am

1000% the right move. we have two potential "building blocks" in kennard and wood, but neither are blocks you want to start your foundation with. we're not ready roster-wise to sign anyone with our cap space when all we can surround them with is kennard, wood, old rose, old blake and pretty much nothing else.

i would go all-out for the rebuild this coming season, trade rose as he's the most likely asset we can turn into a first round pick, wait until we shed a little extra cap space with snell coming off the books and then start "building up" for the 2022 season. it's blake's last year of his contract so we can start building just in time for his $39 million salary that season to come off the books. if some miracle happens and blake declines his player option for that season then even better.

hopefully whatever players we take on in a salary dump are brandon knight-level players, where they wouldn't take away too minutes from our young guys or increase our wins (lower our draft pick next offseason).