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Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj

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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#61 » by TPA » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:27 am

I think the 16 pick in THIS draft is just as good as the 16 pick in any other draft. Mainly because we didn't get to see these kids play a full collegiate season and tournament. I believe if we had, these top 20 projections maybe a bit more shuffled. Either way I think there are some great prospects in the mid-first round and quite possibly some gems from that point and deeper. The Pistons aren't trying to be irrelevant for 10 years and this extra pick in this draft hopefully expedites our trajectory.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#62 » by bstein14 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:28 am

Honestly, a future first with slightly less protections could have been traded for a pick in the teens in this draft! We got hosed by taking on Ariza's contract in this deal.

A lottery protected future first from Detroit is 100% something that would have landed us a pick in the teens in THIS DRAFT.

We got screwed unless someone is at #16 who ends up being really good for us.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#63 » by Snakebites » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:29 am

chrbal wrote:
vege wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
This is a pick now for a pick later. It’s fine.


We gave up 7 million in raw cap space for that. We gained nothing, in fact, we lost a late 2nd in the process. How can people like that deal?


2nd is going to be like 58 next year. Which the rockets bought for $4.6 million. Ariza is owed around $6.4 million. We’ll cut him soon, whoever signs him discounts his money. He’s at least worth what New York gave Bullock last year, $4 million. So now we owe Ariza like $2.4 million .

The pick swap makes it like a 20th pick down the road at best.

The only way that pick EVER converts to a better pick than the one they gave us is if we’re still a lotto team in 5 years.

That’s possible, but if someone is operating under that assumption why are they even here?

It’s a risk, but a low and appropriate one.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#64 » by Canadafan » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:34 am

thesack12 wrote:
Canadafan wrote:The trade was great. Itll likely be us giving them 2 2nd rounders down the road. I'm happy we're getting two rookies now. And likely lining ourselves up the next summers to be in the lottery in two very strong drafts. Ariza wont be in uniform for us its basically costing us $1.8 to get the #16 sweeeeet


The Pick is top 16 protected until 2025, then top 10 protected until 2027, and top 9 protected in 2028, then it becomes 2nds.

If it gets to the point of actually becoming 2nd rounders sent, Detroit will have drafted legendarily bad for the next 7 years, and the rebuild will have long been an EPIC fail.


True. I'm happy just getting a second pick this draft and then after we tank the next two years :wink: then we can give them our 30th pick since we will obviously be the best team in the league in 2023
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#65 » by El Chivo » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:26 pm

How can someone not be happy with the trade?

I'm not sold on our actual 16th pick, but the trade was pretty good.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#66 » by vege » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:32 pm

El Chivo wrote:How can someone not be happy with the trade?

I'm not sold on our actual 16th pick, but the trade was pretty good.


Do you understand this trade?
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#67 » by El Chivo » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:34 pm

vege wrote:
El Chivo wrote:How can someone not be happy with the trade?

I'm not sold on our actual 16th pick, but the trade was pretty good.


Do you understand this trade?


I do. Maybe someone else doesn't.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#68 » by NYPiston » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:35 pm

vege wrote:
Do you understand this trade?


Do you?
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#69 » by Billl » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:36 pm

El Chivo wrote:How can someone not be happy with the trade?

I'm not sold on our actual 16th pick, but the trade was pretty good.


Because the chances are that we gave up a pick about in this same range. Assuming the rebuild goes as planned, we'll grab some decent young talent for a couple years and then start a climb back to respectability. That's likely to be a climb though, not some sort of rocket ship from worst to first. We'll have at least a year where we are competing for a late playoff spot.... and that year we lose our pick. It's pretty unlikely that we go from drafting in the top 10 to the 20's.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#70 » by El Chivo » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:01 pm

Billl wrote:
El Chivo wrote:How can someone not be happy with the trade?

I'm not sold on our actual 16th pick, but the trade was pretty good.


Because the chances are that we gave up a pick about in this same range. Assuming the rebuild goes as planned, we'll grab some decent young talent for a couple years and then start a climb back to respectability. That's likely to be a climb though, not some sort of rocket ship from worst to first. We'll have at least a year where we are competing for a late playoff spot.... and that year we lose our pick. It's pretty unlikely that we go from drafting in the top 10 to the 20's.


This draft had no sure stars, but there were plenty of good players in the first round and was quite deep. Who knows if 2024 or whatever draft it will be will be that deep?

If Pistons won't be a successful franchise in the next 10 years it won't be for 2026 17th pick going to Houston, so I don't see the reason to be mad as someone is.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#71 » by Billl » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:27 pm

El Chivo wrote:
Billl wrote:
El Chivo wrote:How can someone not be happy with the trade?

I'm not sold on our actual 16th pick, but the trade was pretty good.


Because the chances are that we gave up a pick about in this same range. Assuming the rebuild goes as planned, we'll grab some decent young talent for a couple years and then start a climb back to respectability. That's likely to be a climb though, not some sort of rocket ship from worst to first. We'll have at least a year where we are competing for a late playoff spot.... and that year we lose our pick. It's pretty unlikely that we go from drafting in the top 10 to the 20's.


This draft had no sure stars, but there were plenty of good players in the first round and was quite deep. Who knows if 2024 or whatever draft it will be will be that deep?

If Pistons won't be a successful franchise in the next 10 years it won't be for 2026 17th pick going to Houston, so I don't see the reason to be mad as someone is.


Because we gave up a bunch of cap space for a pick swap. That's not a great deal. We very well might end up sending pick #10 out in exchange for pick #16 and giving up cap space in the process.

And no, this was not considered a particularly deep draft. It was just a flat draft. People were saying picks 4-17 were interchangable, but that is just because the top of the draft was so weak, not because the bottom was so strong.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#72 » by El Chivo » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:31 pm

to me it looked a deep one.

on the other end we don't need cap-space nowadays and we still be able to absorb bad two years deals (and picks) with our expirings.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#73 » by thesack12 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:36 pm

Billl wrote:
El Chivo wrote:
Billl wrote:
Because the chances are that we gave up a pick about in this same range. Assuming the rebuild goes as planned, we'll grab some decent young talent for a couple years and then start a climb back to respectability. That's likely to be a climb though, not some sort of rocket ship from worst to first. We'll have at least a year where we are competing for a late playoff spot.... and that year we lose our pick. It's pretty unlikely that we go from drafting in the top 10 to the 20's.


This draft had no sure stars, but there were plenty of good players in the first round and was quite deep. Who knows if 2024 or whatever draft it will be will be that deep?

If Pistons won't be a successful franchise in the next 10 years it won't be for 2026 17th pick going to Houston, so I don't see the reason to be mad as someone is.


Because we gave up a bunch of cap space for a pick swap. That's not a great deal. We very well might end up sending pick #10 out in exchange for pick #16 and giving up cap space in the process.

And no, this was not considered a particularly deep draft. It was just a flat draft. People were saying picks 4-17 were interchangable, but that is just because the top of the draft was so weak, not because the bottom was so strong.


If the Pistons end up sending anything better than a #11 pick to Houston, it won't be until the 2027 draft.

With top 16 protections thru the 2024 draft, then top 10 protection in 2025 and 2026, then top 9 protection in 2027; Its highly likely that the pick that Houston will end up getting will be worse than #16 that Detroit got.

As for whomever gets drafted with that eventual pick, we'll will just have to play the (long) waiting game to compare him to Stewart.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#74 » by pistonpat » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:41 pm

thesack12 wrote:
Billl wrote:
El Chivo wrote:
This draft had no sure stars, but there were plenty of good players in the first round and was quite deep. Who knows if 2024 or whatever draft it will be will be that deep?

If Pistons won't be a successful franchise in the next 10 years it won't be for 2026 17th pick going to Houston, so I don't see the reason to be mad as someone is.


Because we gave up a bunch of cap space for a pick swap. That's not a great deal. We very well might end up sending pick #10 out in exchange for pick #16 and giving up cap space in the process.

And no, this was not considered a particularly deep draft. It was just a flat draft. People were saying picks 4-17 were interchangable, but that is just because the top of the draft was so weak, not because the bottom was so strong.


If the Pistons end up sending anything better than a #11 pick to Houston, it won't be until the 2027 draft.

With top 16 protections thru the 2024 draft, then top 10 protection in 2025 and 2026, then top 9 protection in 2027; Its highly likely that the pick that Houston will end up getting will be worse than #16 that Detroit got.

As for whomever gets drafted with that eventual pick, we'll will just have to play the (long) waiting game to compare him to Stewart.


When you are taking on that money, you should of been able to turn the protections into the 2nd rounders much earlier, not seven years out. I appreciate Weaver's aggressiveness but when you get into the details of all his trades, you can tell he is a first time GM. Also why did we take on $5M on the McGruder contract when we gave up Luke, we should of least got some 2nd rounders back. Just dropped the ball and feels like he was so motivated to make the moves he let some other GMs take advantage of him.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#75 » by Billl » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:45 pm

thesack12 wrote:
Billl wrote:
El Chivo wrote:
This draft had no sure stars, but there were plenty of good players in the first round and was quite deep. Who knows if 2024 or whatever draft it will be will be that deep?

If Pistons won't be a successful franchise in the next 10 years it won't be for 2026 17th pick going to Houston, so I don't see the reason to be mad as someone is.


Because we gave up a bunch of cap space for a pick swap. That's not a great deal. We very well might end up sending pick #10 out in exchange for pick #16 and giving up cap space in the process.

And no, this was not considered a particularly deep draft. It was just a flat draft. People were saying picks 4-17 were interchangable, but that is just because the top of the draft was so weak, not because the bottom was so strong.


If the Pistons end up sending anything better than a #11 pick to Houston, it won't be until the 2027 draft.

With top 16 protections thru the 2024 draft, then top 10 protection in 2025 and 2026, then top 9 protection in 2027; Its highly likely that the pick that Houston will end up getting will be worse than #16 that Detroit got.

As for whomever gets drafted with that eventual pick, we'll will just have to play the (long) waiting game to compare him to Stewart.


How do you get "highly likely" that a pick with top 10 and top 9 protections will be worse than #16. Unless we make a big jump all in one year, we are likely to progress from horrible, to bad, to decent in that time period and have at least 1 year where we aren't a bottom 10 team before we get to be a good team.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#76 » by 440BB » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:48 pm

Trevor Ariza sure would look good in a Warriors uniform this season as a one year rental while Klay Thompson heals...
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#77 » by thesack12 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:54 pm

Billl wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
Billl wrote:
Because we gave up a bunch of cap space for a pick swap. That's not a great deal. We very well might end up sending pick #10 out in exchange for pick #16 and giving up cap space in the process.

And no, this was not considered a particularly deep draft. It was just a flat draft. People were saying picks 4-17 were interchangable, but that is just because the top of the draft was so weak, not because the bottom was so strong.


If the Pistons end up sending anything better than a #11 pick to Houston, it won't be until the 2027 draft.

With top 16 protections thru the 2024 draft, then top 10 protection in 2025 and 2026, then top 9 protection in 2027; Its highly likely that the pick that Houston will end up getting will be worse than #16 that Detroit got.

As for whomever gets drafted with that eventual pick, we'll will just have to play the (long) waiting game to compare him to Stewart.


How do you get "highly likely" that a pick with top 10 and top 9 protections will be worse than #16. Unless we make a big jump all in one year, we are likely to progress from horrible, to bad, to decent in that time period and have at least 1 year where we aren't a bottom 10 team before we get to be a good team.


Because you are ignoring the top 16 protections for the next 4 years.

Detroit literally has 7 years before they have to start worrying about coughing up a top 10 pick. Even then, worst case scenario it will be the #10 pick. After that it will only be 2nd rounders sent.

Sure its going to be a slow process, but do you really think they are going to stay a bottom 10 team for the next 7 consecutive years? If they do; the rebuild will have been an epic fail, they will have drafted legendarily bad for at least the next 5 years, and Weaver will be long gone.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#78 » by potatoaim » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:55 pm

Didnt really like the trade either. If this team isnt ready to compete for a 6th/7th seed in the next 4 years, what is the point of any of this? Might as well just contract the franchise. Trading 17th-20thish pick in a likely deep draft for Stewart, while taking on $$$, seems like a bad move on paper. If Stewart pans out, then no harm, but we'll just have to wait and see.
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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#79 » by DetroitSho » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:57 pm

Billl wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
Billl wrote:
Because we gave up a bunch of cap space for a pick swap. That's not a great deal. We very well might end up sending pick #10 out in exchange for pick #16 and giving up cap space in the process.

And no, this was not considered a particularly deep draft. It was just a flat draft. People were saying picks 4-17 were interchangable, but that is just because the top of the draft was so weak, not because the bottom was so strong.


If the Pistons end up sending anything better than a #11 pick to Houston, it won't be until the 2027 draft.

With top 16 protections thru the 2024 draft, then top 10 protection in 2025 and 2026, then top 9 protection in 2027; Its highly likely that the pick that Houston will end up getting will be worse than #16 that Detroit got.

As for whomever gets drafted with that eventual pick, we'll will just have to play the (long) waiting game to compare him to Stewart.


How do you get "highly likely" that a pick with top 10 and top 9 protections will be worse than #16. Unless we make a big jump all in one year, we are likely to progress from horrible, to bad, to decent in that time period and have at least 1 year where we aren't a bottom 10 team before we get to be a good team.
If this ends up being a top 10 pick, it will be in 2027. If we're still bad in 2027, the Ariza trade is the least of our worries at that point. There's way bigger issues that will have arisen.

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Re: Trevor Ariza and 16. Official Woj 

Post#80 » by Moses ShamMoses » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:07 pm

I'm assuming Ariza doesn't hold any value at his current contract? He seems like a guy a contender loves on a minimum deal. Without further details, I think were going to waive him or buy him out.

Does anybody have a feel yet on how much cap space we're left with after last night wheeling and dealing?????
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