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Grade the Hayes pick!

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Grade the Hayes pick!

Awesome!
48
69%
Meh
9
13%
27 percent from three?????
4
6%
Maybe he’s here to babysit Sekou
9
13%
 
Total votes: 70

edmunder_prc
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#121 » by edmunder_prc » Wed Jan 6, 2021 9:49 pm

Billups was strong and faster than Killian. That was also a very different era of basketball with how defenses could push offensive players with their arms and redirect them. That is an automatic foul now. Even running around screens, if you barely touch a guy, its free throws. In 2004 you could stiff arm offensive players and it was ok.

Billups was also automatic on his trailing 3-point shot, Mr. Big Shot himself. To compare Killian to the Finals MVP is not a fair fight for Killian.

Right now I wish the Pistons still had Bruce Brown for crying out loud! I'd rather continue to develop him now that Killian is out.

Bruce Brown
Josh Jackson
Bey
Grant
Stewart

That would be some serious defense! That's Bad Boys Pistons Basketball.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#122 » by MotownMadness » Wed Jan 6, 2021 10:43 pm

edmunder_prc wrote:Billups was strong and faster than Killian. That was also a very different era of basketball with how defenses could push offensive players with their arms and redirect them. That is an automatic foul now. Even running around screens, if you barely touch a guy, its free throws. In 2004 you could stiff arm offensive players and it was ok.

Billups was also automatic on his trailing 3-point shot, Mr. Big Shot himself. To compare Killian to the Finals MVP is not a fair fight for Killian.

Right now I wish the Pistons still had Bruce Brown for crying out loud! I'd rather continue to develop him now that Killian is out.

Bruce Brown
Josh Jackson
Bey
Grant
Stewart

That would be some serious defense! That's Bad Boys Pistons Basketball.

Killian gets separation through some crafty moves. Billups is just way better, one of the best Floor generals. The way he could control the offense and play under control no matter the time in the game was legendary.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#123 » by Jackattaq » Wed Jan 6, 2021 11:24 pm

I know injuries happen, but man, he was running and tears a muscle? At 19 years old? Doesn’t seem like there was anything that caused it? This is making me like the pick even less. Can’t make it through 6 games? He didn’t look ready for NBA action from the preseason through the first six games and now over half his season is most likely lost? I am just so sick of the NBA and it’s “hype”, there were articles calling him a top prospect yet he did not look NBA ready to start the season. He probably spent more time on his “Road to the NBA” video than he did on getting ready to be an NBA player. His body has failed him early in the season and his game and shot selection looked weak. So sick of wasted picks by the Pistons.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#124 » by MotownMadness » Wed Jan 6, 2021 11:35 pm

Jackattaq wrote:I know injuries happen, but man, he was running and tears a muscle? At 19 years old? Doesn’t seem like there was anything that caused it? This is making me like the pick even less. Can’t make it through 6 games? He didn’t look ready for NBA action from the preseason through the first six games and now over half his season is most likely lost? I am just so sick of the NBA and it’s “hype”, there were articles calling him a top prospect yet he did not look NBA ready to start the season. He probably spent more time on his “Road to the NBA” video than he did on getting ready to be an NBA player. His body has failed him early in the season and his game and shot selection looked weak. So sick of wasted picks by the Pistons.

Man we gotta get one of Suggs or Cade. Replace Hayes if he is a bust or could play next to him if he comes back good
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#125 » by BJK1 » Wed Jan 6, 2021 11:51 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
edmunder_prc wrote:Billups was strong and faster than Killian. That was also a very different era of basketball with how defenses could push offensive players with their arms and redirect them. That is an automatic foul now. Even running around screens, if you barely touch a guy, its free throws. In 2004 you could stiff arm offensive players and it was ok.

Billups was also automatic on his trailing 3-point shot, Mr. Big Shot himself. To compare Killian to the Finals MVP is not a fair fight for Killian.

Right now I wish the Pistons still had Bruce Brown for crying out loud! I'd rather continue to develop him now that Killian is out.

Bruce Brown
Josh Jackson
Bey
Grant
Stewart

That would be some serious defense! That's Bad Boys Pistons Basketball.

Killian gets separation through some crafty moves. Billups is just way better, one of the best Floor generals. The way he could control the offense and play under control no matter the time in the game was legendary.


Took a while for Chauncey to become the guy that Pistons fans saw. He was pretty much dismissed as a bust early in his career, bouncing from Boston, Toronto, and Denver (his first stop there), before finding his way playing under Flip Saunders in Minny. Some guys just take time to put it together.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#126 » by BJK1 » Wed Jan 6, 2021 11:54 pm

Read on Twitter


Really glad to hear that the kid’s parents are in town to help him deal with this.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#127 » by MotownMadness » Thu Jan 7, 2021 12:05 am

BJK1 wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
edmunder_prc wrote:Billups was strong and faster than Killian. That was also a very different era of basketball with how defenses could push offensive players with their arms and redirect them. That is an automatic foul now. Even running around screens, if you barely touch a guy, its free throws. In 2004 you could stiff arm offensive players and it was ok.

Billups was also automatic on his trailing 3-point shot, Mr. Big Shot himself. To compare Killian to the Finals MVP is not a fair fight for Killian.

Right now I wish the Pistons still had Bruce Brown for crying out loud! I'd rather continue to develop him now that Killian is out.

Bruce Brown
Josh Jackson
Bey
Grant
Stewart

That would be some serious defense! That's Bad Boys Pistons Basketball.

Killian gets separation through some crafty moves. Billups is just way better, one of the best Floor generals. The way he could control the offense and play under control no matter the time in the game was legendary.


Took a while for Chauncey to become the guy that Pistons fans saw. He was pretty much dismissed as a bust early in his career, bouncing from Boston, Toronto, and Denver (his first stop there), before finding his way playing under Flip Saunders in Minny. Some guys just take time to put it together.

Agree
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#128 » by ByeByeDre » Thu Jan 7, 2021 12:13 am

jakebernat wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Well, I’m no doctor and I obviously haven’t seen his scans, but I think if it’s even a remotely close call you gotta err on the side of getting the surgery.

Hope they’re getting the right advice. We’ve seen these situations get worse when the wrong call is made.


hip injuries can be one of the most nagging injuries if not properly healed. he needs to 100% do whatever it takes to get fully healed before even thinking about stepping on a court.


Totally agreed - that injury sucks. I’ve had players appear to be over it, and then..... nope, not over it. And it happened on such a bizarre play - I thought it was his other hip when it happened.

Hayes not being able to play might ultimately be good for his psyche - let’s face it, he has sucked. Negative every game. Getting away from it might help him clear his head and recalibrate.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#129 » by DetroitSho » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:13 am

edmunder_prc wrote:Billups was strong and faster than Killian. That was also a very different era of basketball with how defenses could push offensive players with their arms and redirect them. That is an automatic foul now. Even running around screens, if you barely touch a guy, its free throws. In 2004 you could stiff arm offensive players and it was ok.

Billups was also automatic on his trailing 3-point shot, Mr. Big Shot himself. To compare Killian to the Finals MVP is not a fair fight for Killian.

Right now I wish the Pistons still had Bruce Brown for crying out loud! I'd rather continue to develop him now that Killian is out.

Bruce Brown
Josh Jackson
Bey
Grant
Stewart

That would be some serious defense! That's Bad Boys Pistons Basketball.
I didn't compare Hayes to Chauncey. I named examples of a not so quick/fast guy with good vision and a good shot. Chauncey fits that bill, as well as Cassell and Brogdon.

And wouldn't it stand to reason defenders not being able to stiff arm Hayes helps make up for whatever alleged difference in speed that exists?

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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#130 » by Pharaoh » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:21 am

You forgot Orlando in there too.
BJK1 wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
edmunder_prc wrote:Billups was strong and faster than Killian. That was also a very different era of basketball with how defenses could push offensive players with their arms and redirect them. That is an automatic foul now. Even running around screens, if you barely touch a guy, its free throws. In 2004 you could stiff arm offensive players and it was ok.

Billups was also automatic on his trailing 3-point shot, Mr. Big Shot himself. To compare Killian to the Finals MVP is not a fair fight for Killian.

Right now I wish the Pistons still had Bruce Brown for crying out loud! I'd rather continue to develop him now that Killian is out.

Bruce Brown
Josh Jackson
Bey
Grant
Stewart

That would be some serious defense! That's Bad Boys Pistons Basketball.

Killian gets separation through some crafty moves. Billups is just way better, one of the best Floor generals. The way he could control the offense and play under control no matter the time in the game was legendary.


Took a while for Chauncey to become the guy that Pistons fans saw. He was pretty much dismissed as a bust early in his career, bouncing from Boston, Toronto, and Denver (his first stop there), before finding his way playing under Flip Saunders in Minny. Some guys just take time to put it together.


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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#131 » by buzzkilloton » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:22 am

BJK1 wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
edmunder_prc wrote:Billups was strong and faster than Killian. That was also a very different era of basketball with how defenses could push offensive players with their arms and redirect them. That is an automatic foul now. Even running around screens, if you barely touch a guy, its free throws. In 2004 you could stiff arm offensive players and it was ok.

Billups was also automatic on his trailing 3-point shot, Mr. Big Shot himself. To compare Killian to the Finals MVP is not a fair fight for Killian.

Right now I wish the Pistons still had Bruce Brown for crying out loud! I'd rather continue to develop him now that Killian is out.

Bruce Brown
Josh Jackson
Bey
Grant
Stewart

That would be some serious defense! That's Bad Boys Pistons Basketball.

Killian gets separation through some crafty moves. Billups is just way better, one of the best Floor generals. The way he could control the offense and play under control no matter the time in the game was legendary.


Took a while for Chauncey to become the guy that Pistons fans saw. He was pretty much dismissed as a bust early in his career, bouncing from Boston, Toronto, and Denver (his first stop there), before finding his way playing under Flip Saunders in Minny. Some guys just take time to put it together.


If he doesnt get going on his first contract with us like Chauncey then hes useless to us. We wont keep him. So he needs to show something these first few years.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#132 » by Pharaoh » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:22 am

Obviously you didn't watch those videos cause a lot of it was him working on his game.
Jackattaq wrote:I know injuries happen, but man, he was running and tears a muscle? At 19 years old? Doesn’t seem like there was anything that caused it? This is making me like the pick even less. Can’t make it through 6 games? He didn’t look ready for NBA action from the preseason through the first six games and now over half his season is most likely lost? I am just so sick of the NBA and it’s “hype”, there were articles calling him a top prospect yet he did not look NBA ready to start the season. He probably spent more time on his “Road to the NBA” video than he did on getting ready to be an NBA player. His body has failed him early in the season and his game and shot selection looked weak. So sick of wasted picks by the Pistons.


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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#133 » by flow » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:49 am

Rip32 wrote:Isaiah Thomas of the Boston Celtics had the same injury and was never the same player. Javis Landry of the Browns had the same injury as well but he plays a different sport. Bball is more movement. Constant stopping and starting.

We may have a lemon

IT had a femoral impingement as well as the tear.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#134 » by Rip32 » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:56 am

Jackattaq wrote:I know injuries happen, but man, he was running and tears a muscle? At 19 years old? Doesn’t seem like there was anything that caused it? This is making me like the pick even less. Can’t make it through 6 games? He didn’t look ready for NBA action from the preseason through the first six games and now over half his season is most likely lost? I am just so sick of the NBA and it’s “hype”, there were articles calling him a top prospect yet he did not look NBA ready to start the season. He probably spent more time on his “Road to the NBA” video than he did on getting ready to be an NBA player. His body has failed him early in the season and his game and shot selection looked weak. So sick of wasted picks by the Pistons.


I personally think Hayes is a lemon if you want equate to a car. No BS it was something about this guy that just didn't seem right. I've watched his highlights and nothing about him impressed me. Another concern I had was how tired this guy got. I mean, at 19 you should be an energizer bunny.

Weaver talk about Piston's DNA then he whiffed on this guy.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#135 » by Jackattaq » Thu Jan 7, 2021 2:17 am

Pharaoh wrote:Obviously you didn't watch those videos cause a lot of it was him working on his game.
Jackattaq wrote:I know injuries happen, but man, he was running and tears a muscle? At 19 years old? Doesn’t seem like there was anything that caused it? This is making me like the pick even less. Can’t make it through 6 games? He didn’t look ready for NBA action from the preseason through the first six games and now over half his season is most likely lost? I am just so sick of the NBA and it’s “hype”, there were articles calling him a top prospect yet he did not look NBA ready to start the season. He probably spent more time on his “Road to the NBA” video than he did on getting ready to be an NBA player. His body has failed him early in the season and his game and shot selection looked weak. So sick of wasted picks by the Pistons.


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The majority of what I remember on the video was him talking about where he was getting drafted and whiffing at golf swings. His right hand is atrocious, couldn’t he have spent time working on that instead of making a useless video?
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#136 » by bjones521 » Thu Jan 7, 2021 5:35 am

I feel really bad for Hayes. Dont see him starting next year. I see Jackson being the starting 2 guard of the future and we will get a top 3 pick so I can see us taking Cunningham or Suggs. I honestly dont think he is any good tho. Summer league or not a good player you will see flashes. Maybe he will be Van fleet or a Billups that'll take years to develop but it won't be here if he cant play this year.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#137 » by Pharaoh » Thu Jan 7, 2021 6:05 am

There's at least 5 vids and in one I remember he was actually working on core strength and balance in the gym.

Yeah ok he's making vids while working? So?

Pretty sure you can find the Kevin O'Connor one where he explains why he believed Hayes was the #1 pick.

Every single "expert" had Hayes in the top 9 so let's not act like we reached for him.

He has shown flashes at times but overall he's struggled with so many aspects of the NBA game.

Work him through it! We've got 4 years of him for cheap - might as well take advantage
Jackattaq wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Obviously you didn't watch those videos cause a lot of it was him working on his game.
Jackattaq wrote:I know injuries happen, but man, he was running and tears a muscle? At 19 years old? Doesn’t seem like there was anything that caused it? This is making me like the pick even less. Can’t make it through 6 games? He didn’t look ready for NBA action from the preseason through the first six games and now over half his season is most likely lost? I am just so sick of the NBA and it’s “hype”, there were articles calling him a top prospect yet he did not look NBA ready to start the season. He probably spent more time on his “Road to the NBA” video than he did on getting ready to be an NBA player. His body has failed him early in the season and his game and shot selection looked weak. So sick of wasted picks by the Pistons.


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The majority of what I remember on the video was him talking about where he was getting drafted and whiffing at golf swings. His right hand is atrocious, couldn’t he have spent time working on that instead of making a useless video?


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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#138 » by Pharaoh » Thu Jan 7, 2021 6:11 am

He has shown flashes though.

His D, certain reads, the footwork on his step backs (& more importantly the side step 3) are all things he already has down at 19.

Dude needs to get stronger, be more aggressive, fix the right hand and play with his head up more.

From all I saw he's just looking to get it to Blake or Plumlee and then switches off.

That's not who he is and not what we should want from him offensively!

He needed the keys to the offense, to have the ball in his hands, run PnRs with Plumlee, PnPs with Blake cause Blake is afraid of rolling to the rim, DHOs with Grant and we should have been running pin downs for Svi, Jackson and Rose while Hayes has the ball in hand.

Casey did say they didn't work on offense too much in the pre-season and camp - that much was obvious when Hayes is constantly looking to pass to Blake or Plumlee at the top the minute he crosses half court
bjones521 wrote:I feel really bad for Hayes. Dont see him starting next year. I see Jackson being the starting 2 guard of the future and we will get a top 3 pick so I can see us taking Cunningham or Suggs. I honestly dont think he is any good tho. Summer league or not a good player you will see flashes. Maybe he will be Van fleet or a Billups that'll take years to develop but it won't be here if he cant play this year.


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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#139 » by Jackattaq » Thu Jan 7, 2021 8:22 am

Pharaoh wrote:He has shown flashes though.

His D, certain reads, the footwork on his step backs (& more importantly the side step 3) are all things he already has down at 19.

Dude needs to get stronger, be more aggressive, fix the right hand and play with his head up more.

From all I saw he's just looking to get it to Blake or Plumlee and then switches off.

That's not who he is and not what we should want from him offensively!

He needed the keys to the offense, to have the ball in his hands, run PnRs with Plumlee, PnPs with Blake cause Blake is afraid of rolling to the rim, DHOs with Grant and we should have been running pin downs for Svi, Jackson and Rose while Hayes has the ball in hand.

Casey did say they didn't work on offense too much in the pre-season and camp - that much was obvious when Hayes is constantly looking to pass to Blake or Plumlee at the top the minute he crosses half court
bjones521 wrote:I feel really bad for Hayes. Dont see him starting next year. I see Jackson being the starting 2 guard of the future and we will get a top 3 pick so I can see us taking Cunningham or Suggs. I honestly dont think he is any good tho. Summer league or not a good player you will see flashes. Maybe he will be Van fleet or a Billups that'll take years to develop but it won't be here if he cant play this year.


If there have been flashes, I must have missed them. I have seen a few and actually very few actual moments where he has looked NBA caliber.

He looks timid, erratic, out of sorts (2 decent plays followed by a wild air ball) and unsure of his play. At 19 I wouldn’t expect him to command the game the same way as a 4 year starting PG from a top college. Wasn’t he billed as “He had been in a pro league playing with grown men”? He looks like a scared lamb in a Lions’ den. His passes seem weak and ill-advised (wraparound passes outside the three point line that go for 2 the other way)?

He is injured now, I don’t wish that on him, but hopefully his play up to this point has been an aberration and he can use this time watching to allow the game to slow down. Hopefully he will recover and figure how to make his game look like that of an NBA rookie picked in the lottery. Hopefully.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#140 » by Mr. Krabs » Thu Jan 7, 2021 9:53 am

IMO best case he turns into Dante Exum

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