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Grade the Hayes pick!

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Grade the Hayes pick!

Awesome!
48
69%
Meh
9
13%
27 percent from three?????
4
6%
Maybe he’s here to babysit Sekou
9
13%
 
Total votes: 70

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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#141 » by 440BB » Thu Jan 7, 2021 11:02 am

I'm going to reset expectations for Hayes myself.

I don't expect him to play again this season. I don't expect him to be able to work much on his game while rehabbing/recovering, as that work requires movement that's detrimental to healing.

I don't even expect him to be ready to start playing at the beginning of next season. If he is, I don't expect his game will be any better that what we've seen, so needed development with little contribution next season is likely. I'm not sure he ever gets back on the court without pain and limitations. I know that sounds worst case, but it is a real possibility.

I hope I'm wrong and that he blossoms in year three, but expecting nothing from Hayes going forward works for me.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#142 » by Jackattaq » Thu Jan 7, 2021 11:56 am

440BB wrote:I'm going to reset expectations for Hayes myself.

I don't expect him to play again this season. I don't expect him to be able to work much on his game while rehabbing/recovering, as that work requires movement that's detrimental to healing.

I don't even expect him to be ready to start playing at the beginning of next season. If he is, I don't expect his game will be any better that what we've seen, so needed development with little contribution next season is likely. I'm not sure he ever gets back on the court without pain and limitations. I know that sounds worst case, but it is a real possibility.

I hope I'm wrong and that he blossoms in year three, but expecting nothing from Hayes going forward works for me.


Well if that is your expectation of him, I would say he clearly falls in the category of "wasted pick", if he isn't able to do anything of note until year 3 and he is the 7th overall pick. We could have grabbed someone at that spot that could have contributed over their first two years and potentially blossomed into a decent contributing player. So far, all I've seen/heard about Killian Hayes has been HYPE. I was excited when we drafted him, having never seen him play and after reading about him and the NBA hype machine, but he hasn't passed the "eye test". He is slow, doesn't seem to have any burst, can't finish at the rim and often weak shot attempts are getting slammed back out of play. He can hardly bring the ball up court without getting ripped (especially if he tries to use his right hand). He can't make basic passes. He looks like he panics as soon as a double teams comes over to trap him. He looks overwhelmed. This is what we got for a 7th overall pick? He looks like a deer in the headlights. So much for all that experience in the Euroleague.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#143 » by thesack12 » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:51 pm

My guy was Melo all along, but my #1 backup (more realistic) plan was always Hayes. I'll admit I was drawn into the hype with him, because there really wasn't much raw data to process on him. I don't have a way to watch international games, and even if I did I probably wouldn't anyways.

Hayes hasn't shown much (if anything) tangible to elicit real optimism that he's going to become an effective player. This is injury might not be disastrous for his development, but is sure as hell isn't helping either.

So while some may just think this is another "toxic" post regarding criticism of Hayes, I'm voicing that I think some of us are just being real with ourselves in that in our early evaluations show that the only things to currently lend creedence to Hayes becoming a quality player in this league, are his pre draft hype/age/his pedigree of being drafted #7 overall/and the inherent homerism that naturally comes along with such things. None of which are directly conducive to substantial player development/growth. Then again maybe some of y'all watched Hayes live in some of those international games, idk.

Of course none of this means he can't or won't get there either. But currently the situation isn't looking super bright.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#144 » by rmfc » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:42 pm

This Hayes' injury is sad on so many levels. No one thought Hayes would be this raw and that he'd get exposed this much so early in his career. This injury hurts his development and the Pistons ability to evaluate his upside.
Hope Hayes recovers quickly. He has a long way to go.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#145 » by flow » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:02 pm

rmfc wrote:This Hayes' injury is sad on so many levels. No one thought Hayes would be this raw and that he'd get exposed this much so early in his career. This injury hurts his development and the Pistons ability to evaluate his upside.
Hope Hayes recovers quickly. He has a long way to go.


It's the GM's job to know.

.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#146 » by Moses ShamMoses » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:09 pm

Weaver's #1 job and the reason he was hired was to be a talent evaluator. Nothing is more important to team success than hitting on draft picks -- especially lotto picks. He can talk about building a hardworking culture all he wants but that means almost nothing without elite players. I wont sit here and call Hayes a bust, but there are more concerns at this point than reasons for optimism.
Jeff Van Gundy on his brother's Pistons: 'He took over the Titanic and it's sinking even quicker'
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#147 » by aad » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:43 am

Any update on Hayes
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#148 » by Uncle Mxy » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:35 am

Pistol King wrote:His biggest luck is he's still very very young, one of the youngest in the last draft class. So even if he's out for the next 6 months or so, it means he's still just turns 20 years old.

I saw this on a fortune cookie recently...

19 year old scrub
Older with a labral tear
20 year old scrub
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#149 » by ducler » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:41 pm

Uncle Mxy wrote:
Pistol King wrote:His biggest luck is he's still very very young, one of the youngest in the last draft class. So even if he's out for the next 6 months or so, it means he's still just turns 20 years old.

I saw this on a fortune cookie recently...

19 year old scrub
Older with a labral tear
20 year old scrub

I love how you're burying Killian after 7 games.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#150 » by Uncle Mxy » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:48 pm

ducler wrote:
Uncle Mxy wrote:
Pistol King wrote:His biggest luck is he's still very very young, one of the youngest in the last draft class. So even if he's out for the next 6 months or so, it means he's still just turns 20 years old.

I saw this on a fortune cookie recently...

19 year old scrub
Older with a labral tear
20 year old scrub

I love how you're burying Killian after 7 games.

I wasn't opposed to picking him at all. But, with this type of injury, his next couple years aren't that hard to predict.
We'll hold on for awhile, then move him for junk, maybe just to free up a slot. He may or may not blossom elsewhere.
That's my non-haiku take, one I hope to be wrong about. I wasn't dumping on Hayes, but this injury changes things.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#151 » by ducler » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:12 pm

Uncle Mxy wrote:
ducler wrote:
Uncle Mxy wrote:I saw this on a fortune cookie recently...

19 year old scrub
Older with a labral tear
20 year old scrub

I love how you're burying Killian after 7 games.

I wasn't opposed to picking him at all. But, with this type of injury, his next couple years aren't that hard to predict.
We'll hold on for awhile, then move him for junk, maybe just to free up a slot. He may or may not blossom elsewhere.
That's my non-haiku take, one I hope to be wrong about. I wasn't dumping on Hayes, but this injury changes things.

Hope you'll be wrong too.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#152 » by 440BB » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:58 pm

I hope he's one of the lucky ones who comes through this with minimal loss of mobility and pain. Unfortunately the Pistons will need a starting caliber point guard sooner than Hayes may develop into one at this point. I'm sure his first games were a big adjustment and he showed glimpses of his potential but with the delayed development this injury causes the Pistons have little choice but to look at the PG market again.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#153 » by MotownMadness » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:06 pm

440BB wrote:I hope he's one of the lucky ones who comes through this with minimal loss of mobility and pain. Unfortunately the Pistons will need a starting caliber point guard sooner than Hayes may develop into one at this point. I'm sure his first games were a big adjustment and he showed glimpses of his potential but with the delayed development this injury causes the Pistons have little choice but to look at the PG market again.

Yeah Cade Cunningham or Jalen Suggs will do just fine
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#154 » by aad » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:17 pm

Either one can with with Hayes and our back court will be set
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#155 » by topsearch92 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:42 pm

Not that it changes much but what does a lack of update tell us about their treatment plan? Still hoping for rehab to work, trying to finish a surgical opinion or two?
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#156 » by Snakebites » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:20 pm

topsearch92 wrote:Not that it changes much but what does a lack of update tell us about their treatment plan? Still hoping for rehab to work, trying to finish a surgical opinion or two?

My best guess is they're trying to get multiple opinions.

That could mean any number of things. Could mean they're just doing due diligence- that would be preferable. Could also mean they got an answer they didn't like.

My gut says they'll eventually be opting for the surgery. The upside is too low and the risk is too high otherwise, at least in my view.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#157 » by edmunder_prc » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:19 pm

Snakebites wrote:
topsearch92 wrote:Not that it changes much but what does a lack of update tell us about their treatment plan? Still hoping for rehab to work, trying to finish a surgical opinion or two?

My best guess is they're trying to get multiple opinions.

That could mean any number of things. Could mean they're just doing due diligence- that would be preferable. Could also mean they got an answer they didn't like.

My gut says they'll eventually be opting for the surgery. The upside is too low and the risk is too high otherwise, at least in my view.



I had a labral tear hip surgery some years ago. My tear was in the back of the hip joint. Most people have tears in the front or side and feel the pain in the groin. My pain was in the back, by my glute. It was not caused from a sudden trauma but because I have sprained one of my knees badly many times and this caused me to favor one leg over the other and this led to a slightly odd gait. It wasnt obvious to me or anyone else but over time, playing sports like basketball, it ruined the joint.

Eventually during a work basketball tournament (full court, each department had a team) we played like 10 games over a few weeks. My hip locked up one night after a week with 3 games. It popped out the next morning and I took a long bath, but I got the surgery.

I lost all true athleticism. I cant jump off that leg anymore (edit, for any real height, I mean I can still jump but Im not getting very high anymore). The glute does not fire the right way or with the same intensity. I mean in normal life who cares, but if you want to play competitive sports its a big deal.

Some people get real bad and cant stand on that leg anymore, with just one leg. It loses its ability for stability and bunch of other things.

Buts its entirely dependent on where the tear is, how big the tear is in the hip joint, do they need to reshape the head of the femur to slip easier in the repaired joint, etc.

Im an old guy so its not a big deal, but I actually need to get my other hip done too. Its not a serious recovery, compared to shoulder tears which I also had done. I didnt even need pain meds or anything, was up and doing in a few weeks. But if they reshape the femur, the doctor told me to do everything slowly for a long time, because its possible that trauma could cause the head of the femur to crack until it totally heals up. In which I would need a serious surgery and no one wants that.

Long story short, it could be extremely serious or it could be nothing. A hundred variables.
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#158 » by MotownMadness » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:58 pm

Man Cole Anthony is doing what I feared from college. Hot and cold but never meant a shot he didnt like killing his efficiency
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#159 » by detroitKG » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:42 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Grade the Hayes pick! 

Post#160 » by Snakebites » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:04 am

detroitKG wrote:
Read on Twitter

Didn’t go the surgery route. Interesting.

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