ImageImageImage

Cap space

Moderators: dVs33, Snakebites, theBigLip

coordinator0
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,039
And1: 1,203
Joined: Nov 11, 2008

Re: Cap space 

Post#21 » by coordinator0 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:05 am

Liqourish wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
Read on Twitter


And there we are.

And for what it's worth my numbers are different from Keith's because he has the team waiving Patton (I don't) and his cap hold for Wood is slightly lower. I think the team would have to renounce that cap hold anyways though since they wouldn't be re-signing him with his early bird rights.


He's literally the only person reporting this. Will be interested to see if true. Every other source is saying $1.8M dead cap hit.


At pretty much the same time as Keith sent that out Bobby Marks had a tweet listing the Pistons with $9 million in cap space (rounded down) which only coincided with the team having Ariza on the books for the full amount. That was before the Dedmon trade I think and the details of the Nets and Clippers trade.

I'm crossing my fingers that Ariza's low guarantee is still in play but not expecting it.
User avatar
Pharaoh
RealGM
Posts: 13,264
And1: 3,352
Joined: Aug 10, 2001

Re: Cap space 

Post#22 » by Pharaoh » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:22 am

I'm still going after Giles in free agency.

Dedmon - Bradley
Blake - Stewart
Sekou - Musa - Ariza
Bey - Svi - Hands - McGruder
Hayes - Rose - Lee

Yeah that's my starting 5, Rose and Hayes can play some together, Stewart the first big off the bench, Musa & Svi get time cause Sekou and Bey can play up a position.

We're gonna suck and it's gonna be beautiful cause the 2021 Draft is loaded

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
The Moose
Head Coach
Posts: 6,666
And1: 2,884
Joined: Apr 18, 2012
Location: AUSTRALIA
   

Re: Cap space 

Post#23 » by The Moose » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:52 am

Pharaoh wrote:I'm still going after Giles in free agency.

Dedmon - Bradley
Blake - Stewart
Sekou - Musa - Ariza
Bey - Svi - Hands - McGruder
Hayes - Rose - Lee

Yeah that's my starting 5, Rose and Hayes can play some together, Stewart the first big off the bench, Musa & Svi get time cause Sekou and Bey can play up a position.

We're gonna suck and it's gonna be beautiful cause the 2021 Draft is loaded

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app


It’s very unlikely Dedmon or Ariza are on the team come opening night. I think Blake might be playing small ball 5 this season with Sekou at the 4
Luka Doncic and Cedi Osman Fan Club member
coordinator0
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,039
And1: 1,203
Joined: Nov 11, 2008

Re: Cap space 

Post#24 » by coordinator0 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:21 am

Coming back to this here is where the Pistons are at:

Under Contract

Blake Griffin $36,810,996
Delon Wright $9,000,000
Derrick Rose $7,682,926
Killian Hayes $5,307,120 (120% draft slot)
Rodney McGruder $5,192,307
Tony Bradley $3,542,060
Sekou Doumbouya $3,449,400
Isaiah Stewart $3,121,080 (120% draft slot)
Dewayne Dedmon $2,866,667 (dead money)
Saddiq Bey $2,689,920 (120% draft slot)
Dzanan Musa $2,002,800
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk $1,663,861 (not guaranteed)

Pending Deals

Jerami Grant
Mason Plumlee
Josh Jackson
Jahlil Okafor

Rights To

Saben Lee
Deividas Sirvydis
Jaylen Hands
Jordan Bone
Louis King

-----

Total: $83,329,137
Cap Space: $25,810,863
Luxury Tax Room: $49,297,863
User avatar
Kilo
RealGM
Posts: 11,059
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jun 18, 2011
 

Re: Cap space 

Post#25 » by Kilo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:36 am

coordinator0 wrote:Coming back to this here is where the Pistons are at:

Under Contract

Blake Griffin $36,810,996
Delon Wright $9,000,000
Derrick Rose $7,682,926
Killian Hayes $5,307,120 (120% draft slot)
Rodney McGruder $5,192,307
Tony Bradley $3,542,060
Sekou Doumbouya $3,449,400
Isaiah Stewart $3,121,080 (120% draft slot)
Dewayne Dedmon $2,866,667 (dead money)
Saddiq Bey $2,689,920 (120% draft slot)
Dzanan Musa $2,002,800
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk $1,663,861 (not guaranteed)

Pending Deals

Jerami Grant
Mason Plumlee
Josh Jackson
Jahlil Okafor

Rights To

Saben Lee
Deividas Sirvydis
Jordan Bone
Louis King

-----

Total: $83,329,137
Cap Space: $25,810,863
Luxury Tax Room: $49,297,863


Cap space of 25,810,863 is Grant and Plumlee money. They average 20M and 8M respectively of course but first years will be lower to hit that cap space number. Jah Okafor is signing a vet minimum deal and Josh Jackson signed using (part of?) the Room Exception. Detroit likely ends up about 6M over the cap with this 15 man roster.
coordinator0
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,039
And1: 1,203
Joined: Nov 11, 2008

Re: Cap space 

Post#26 » by coordinator0 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:46 am

Kilo wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:Coming back to this here is where the Pistons are at:

Under Contract

Blake Griffin $36,810,996
Delon Wright $9,000,000
Derrick Rose $7,682,926
Killian Hayes $5,307,120 (120% draft slot)
Rodney McGruder $5,192,307
Tony Bradley $3,542,060
Sekou Doumbouya $3,449,400
Isaiah Stewart $3,121,080 (120% draft slot)
Dewayne Dedmon $2,866,667 (dead money)
Saddiq Bey $2,689,920 (120% draft slot)
Dzanan Musa $2,002,800
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk $1,663,861 (not guaranteed)

Pending Deals

Jerami Grant
Mason Plumlee
Josh Jackson
Jahlil Okafor

Rights To

Saben Lee
Deividas Sirvydis
Jordan Bone
Louis King

-----

Total: $83,329,137
Cap Space: $25,810,863
Luxury Tax Room: $49,297,863


Cap space of 25,810,863 is Grant and Plumlee money. They average 20M and 8M respectively of course but first years will be lower to hit that cap space number. Jah Okafor is signing a vet minimum deal and Josh Jackson signed using (part of?) the Room Exception. Detroit likely ends up about 6M over the cap with this 15 man roster.


Yup. If other moves aren't made that will be the order of the timing as well.
User avatar
Pharaoh
RealGM
Posts: 13,264
And1: 3,352
Joined: Aug 10, 2001

Re: Cap space 

Post#27 » by Pharaoh » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:12 am

coordinator0 wrote:Coming back to this here is where the Pistons are at:

Under Contract

Blake Griffin $36,810,996
Delon Wright $9,000,000
Derrick Rose $7,682,926
Killian Hayes $5,307,120 (120% draft slot)
Rodney McGruder $5,192,307
Tony Bradley $3,542,060
Sekou Doumbouya $3,449,400
Isaiah Stewart $3,121,080 (120% draft slot)
Dewayne Dedmon $2,866,667 (dead money)
Saddiq Bey $2,689,920 (120% draft slot)
Dzanan Musa $2,002,800
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk $1,663,861 (not guaranteed)

Pending Deals

Jerami Grant
Mason Plumlee
Josh Jackson
Jahlil Okafor

Rights To

Saben Lee
Deividas Sirvydis
Jordan Bone
Louis King

-----

Total: $83,329,137
Cap Space: $25,810,863
Luxury Tax Room: $49,297,863


I believe Bone was dumped completely.

Lee is apparently a 2-way deal. King might be the other one again.

Sirvydis likely stays overseas

Roster is:

Plumlee, Stewart, Okafor, Bradley
Blake, Sekou
Grant, Bey, Musa
Jackson, Svi, McGruder
Hayes, Rose, Wright

Not sure why people assume that is a roster going for the 7th or 8th seed any time soon.

We suck!

Actually can argue we got significantly worse - which is the whole point in a rebuild!

Stewart, Okafor, Bradley, Sekou, Bey, Musa, Jackson, Musa, Hayes and Wright are almost completely unknowns here! Grant kind of is too now he's not in Denver.

That's 11 of 15 guys!

Top 5 pick here we come!




Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app
coordinator0
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,039
And1: 1,203
Joined: Nov 11, 2008

Re: Cap space 

Post#28 » by coordinator0 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:26 am

I forgot about Hands. Pistons have his rights too.

And yeah, I think Bone was completely dumped. Not sure on the exacts of the two-way stuff in terms of rights but he's gone.
440BB
Junior
Posts: 322
And1: 211
Joined: Jul 13, 2017
     

Re: Cap space 

Post#29 » by 440BB » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:35 am

I'm assuming Hands will remain stashed in the G league this year unless something drastic happens. A nice addition for the future without a cap hit.
User avatar
Pharaoh
RealGM
Posts: 13,264
And1: 3,352
Joined: Aug 10, 2001

Re: Cap space 

Post#30 » by Pharaoh » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:41 am

Maybe Hands over King as the other 2-way?



Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app
thesack12
General Manager
Posts: 9,219
And1: 1,070
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Location: N DA NAP
     

Re: Cap space 

Post#31 » by thesack12 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:40 am

Normally I would say that I'm not a fan of entering the season with a full 15 man roster, because it limits future trade options. However, Weaver has proven that he's not shy with sacrificing future cap by waive/stretching dudes, so should a situation arise where Detroit brings in more players than they send out in trade, it won't a problem for him.
MotownMadness
RealGM
Posts: 29,959
And1: 17,182
Joined: Oct 08, 2013
       

Re: Cap space 

Post#32 » by MotownMadness » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:27 am

Pharaoh wrote:Maybe Hands over King as the other 2-way?



Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

I would imagine King is gone over Weaver's guys.
User avatar
Kilo
RealGM
Posts: 11,059
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jun 18, 2011
 

Re: Cap space 

Post#33 » by Kilo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:16 pm

Kilo wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:Coming back to this here is where the Pistons are at:

Under Contract

Blake Griffin $36,810,996
Delon Wright $9,000,000
Derrick Rose $7,682,926
Killian Hayes $5,307,120 (120% draft slot)
Rodney McGruder $5,192,307
Tony Bradley $3,542,060
Sekou Doumbouya $3,449,400
Isaiah Stewart $3,121,080 (120% draft slot)
Dewayne Dedmon $2,866,667 (dead money)
Saddiq Bey $2,689,920 (120% draft slot)
Dzanan Musa $2,002,800
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk $1,663,861 (not guaranteed)

Pending Deals

Jerami Grant
Mason Plumlee
Josh Jackson
Jahlil Okafor

Rights To

Saben Lee
Deividas Sirvydis
Jordan Bone
Louis King

-----

Total: $83,329,137
Cap Space: $25,810,863
Luxury Tax Room: $49,297,863


Cap space of 25,810,863 is Grant and Plumlee money. They average 20M and 8M respectively of course but first years will be lower to hit that cap space number. Jah Okafor is signing a vet minimum deal and Josh Jackson signed using (part of?) the Room Exception. Detroit likely ends up about 6M over the cap with this 15 man roster.


Circling back to this it seems Detroit would need $1,173,264 more cap space to fit in the Plumlee and Grant contracts as reported. Grant's year one number is 19,047,619 and Plumlee's first year salary is 7,936,508 for a combined $26,984,127 cost. The table above shows $25, 819, 863 space remaining. (Okafor at vets minimum and Jackson with room exception don't count as both will be signed once Detroit capped out).

Detroit might still need to stretch McGruder or trade Bradley somewhere.
Canadafan
Veteran
Posts: 2,735
And1: 905
Joined: Nov 03, 2014
       

Re: Cap space 

Post#34 » by Canadafan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:39 pm

Kilo wrote:
Kilo wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:Coming back to this here is where the Pistons are at:

Under Contract

Blake Griffin $36,810,996
Delon Wright $9,000,000
Derrick Rose $7,682,926
Killian Hayes $5,307,120 (120% draft slot)
Rodney McGruder $5,192,307
Tony Bradley $3,542,060
Sekou Doumbouya $3,449,400
Isaiah Stewart $3,121,080 (120% draft slot)
Dewayne Dedmon $2,866,667 (dead money)
Saddiq Bey $2,689,920 (120% draft slot)
Dzanan Musa $2,002,800
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk $1,663,861 (not guaranteed)

Pending Deals

Jerami Grant
Mason Plumlee
Josh Jackson
Jahlil Okafor

Rights To

Saben Lee
Deividas Sirvydis
Jordan Bone
Louis King

-----

Total: $83,329,137
Cap Space: $25,810,863
Luxury Tax Room: $49,297,863


Cap space of 25,810,863 is Grant and Plumlee money. They average 20M and 8M respectively of course but first years will be lower to hit that cap space number. Jah Okafor is signing a vet minimum deal and Josh Jackson signed using (part of?) the Room Exception. Detroit likely ends up about 6M over the cap with this 15 man roster.


Circling back to this it seems Detroit would need $1,173,264 more cap space to fit in the Plumlee and Grant contracts as reported. Grant's year one number is 19,047,619 and Plumlee's first year salary is 7,936,508 for a combined $26,984,127 cost. The table above shows $25, 819, 863 space remaining. (Okafor at vets minimum and Jackson with room exception don't count as both will be signed once Detroit capped out).

Detroit might still need to stretch McGruder or trade Bradley somewhere.


Or....trade Blake to them lol
User avatar
Kilo
RealGM
Posts: 11,059
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jun 18, 2011
 

Re: Cap space 

Post#35 » by Kilo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:46 pm

Another possible avenue is wait for Dedmon to sign somewhere and hope the off-set is >800K. If he signs for $3M I think that would even be enough.
thesack12
General Manager
Posts: 9,219
And1: 1,070
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Location: N DA NAP
     

Re: Cap space 

Post#36 » by thesack12 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:10 pm

Taking a quick glance at the 2021-2022 cap situation.

Griffin: $39 mil
Grant: $20 mil
Wright: $8.5 mil
Plumlee: $8.3 mil
Hayes: $4.6 mil
Jackson: $4.5 mil
Doumbouya: $3 mil
Stewart: $2.7 mil
Bey: $2.5 mil
Okafor: $2 mil

Dead cap of Dedmon/Smith: $4 mil (stretched)
Dead cap of McGruder: $1 mil (waived)

Assuming Musa's option is declined, and Svi signs elsewhere.

That all adds up to right at $100 million. Which would put Detroit at around $10 mil under the salary cap for 2021-2022. However, when you factor in what looks like a relatively high 2021 draft pick, Detroit will basically be capped out in 2021.

So Weaver essentially capped Detroit out for 2021, while potentially owing Houston a future late 1st and not having any 2nd rounders until 2027. All the while not bringing in any extra picks for Detroit.

Unless Jackson blows up, I really don't see any tradeable commodities that will fetch any kind of significant draft pick compensation. If any of the other young guys blow up, you aren't trading them. Even if Jackson shows out, you probably don't want to move him either as he's only 23.

This sure doesn't seem like a productive way to enter a rebuild.

Our only hope is that Blake opts out next summer. Even if that happens, its a scary proposition to arm Weaver with $40 mil in cap space.
User avatar
Pharaoh
RealGM
Posts: 13,264
And1: 3,352
Joined: Aug 10, 2001

Re: Cap space 

Post#37 » by Pharaoh » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:19 pm

thesack12 wrote:Taking a quick glance at the 2021-2022 cap situation.

Griffin: $39 mil
Grant: $20 mil
Wright: $8.5 mil
Plumlee: $8.3 mil
Hayes: $4.6 mil
Jackson: $4.5 mil
Doumbouya: $3 mil
Stewart: $2.7 mil
Bey: $2.5 mil
Okafor: $2 mil

Dead cap of Dedmon/Smith: $4 mil (stretched)
Dead cap of McGruder: $1 mil (waived)

Assuming Musa's option is declined, and Svi signs elsewhere.

That all adds up to right at $100 million. Which would put Detroit at around $10 mil under the salary cap for 2021-2022. However, when you factor in what looks like a relatively high 2021 draft pick, Detroit will basically be capped out in 2021.

So Weaver essentially capped Detroit out for 2021, while potentially owing Houston a future late 1st and not having any 2nd rounders until 2027. All the while not bringing in any extra picks for Detroit.


Can you share the protections on that first rounder we owe Houston please?

Just so we all have full disclosure.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
Snakebites
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 36,137
And1: 6,400
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Location: Looking not-so-happily deranged
   

Re: Cap space 

Post#38 » by Snakebites » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:19 pm

Cap management has been bad. No sense putting a bow on that.

But have cap space, sadly, only matters if it’s being used properly. Sigh...
User avatar
bstein14
RealGM
Posts: 22,095
And1: 2,227
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Contact:

Re: Cap space 

Post#39 » by bstein14 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:28 pm

thesack12 wrote:Taking a quick glance at the 2021-2022 cap situation.

Griffin: $39 mil
Grant: $20 mil
Wright: $8.5 mil
Plumlee: $8.3 mil
Hayes: $4.6 mil
Jackson: $4.5 mil
Doumbouya: $3 mil
Stewart: $2.7 mil
Bey: $2.5 mil
Okafor: $2 mil

Dead cap of Dedmon/Smith: $4 mil (stretched)
Dead cap of McGruder: $1 mil (waived)

Assuming Musa's option is declined, and Svi signs elsewhere.

That all adds up to right at $100 million. Which would put Detroit at around $10 mil under the salary cap for 2021-2022. However, when you factor in what looks like a relatively high 2021 draft pick, Detroit will basically be capped out in 2021.

So Weaver essentially capped Detroit out for 2021, while potentially owing Houston a future late 1st and not having any 2nd rounders until 2027. All the while not bringing in any extra picks for Detroit.

Unless Jackson blows up, I really don't see any tradeable commodities that will fetch any kind of significant draft pick compensation. If any of the other young guys blow up, you aren't trading them. Even if Jackson shows out, you probably don't want to move him either as he's only 23.

This sure doesn't seem like a productive way to enter a rebuild.

Our only hope is that Blake opts out next summer. Even if that happens, its a scary proposition to arm Weaver with $40 mil in cap space.


Weaver won't be able to handle a summer with no cap space, he'll simply stretch Blake to $13 mil per over 3 years to create $26 million in cap space next summer.
User avatar
Pharaoh
RealGM
Posts: 13,264
And1: 3,352
Joined: Aug 10, 2001

Re: Cap space 

Post#40 » by Pharaoh » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:39 pm

Protections on that future first to Houston:

Top 16 protected in 2021
Top 16 protected in 2022
Top 16 protected in 2023
Top 16 protected in 2024
Top 10 protected in 2025
Top 10 protected in 2026
Top 9 protected in 2027

Then become a 2nd round pick

Think it's safe to assume that the earliest it would convey is 2023, more likely 2024.



Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

Return to Detroit Pistons