Cap space

[Pharaoh]

Kinda funny seeing people lament the lack of cap space when historically we've never been able to do much with it regardless of what FO we've had.

Cap flexibility is a good thing and we still have that since the vast majority of our guys are young, on cost controlled & team friendly deals.

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[thesack12]

Protections on that future first to Houston:

Top 16 protected in 2021
Top 16 protected in 2022
Top 16 protected in 2023
Top 16 protected in 2024
Top 10 protected in 2025
Top 10 protected in 2026
Top 9 protected in 2027

Then become a 2nd round pick

Think it's safe to assume that the earliest it would convey is 2023, more likely 2024.



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Yeah, that was the original report that came out on draft night. After the trade was expanded to include the S&T of Wood, it was reported that the protections became "stronger." I've been looking for the last 15 minutes or so, but haven't been able to find anything specifying what "stronger means."

[thesack12]

Kinda funny seeing people lament the lack of cap space when historically we've never been able to do much with it regardless of what FO we've had.

Cap flexibility is a good thing and we still have that since the vast majority of our guys are young, on cost controlled & team friendly deals.

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I've always found that argument interesting. You could expand it to those that have argued that they were indifferent if Detroit trades away future 1sts, because they have historically drafted poorly.

Just because Detroit has made mistakes in the past, doesn't mean they should burn assets. Drafting, and trading are the only feasible ways for this team to substantially improve. Having available cap space, can help acquire more draft picks and facilitate in getting talent via trade.... If its utilized properly.

[Kilo]

Those pick protections are ridiculous. But I guess it protects Weaver from himself in that he can't deal another one now until that is conveyed. Should be four years and then second rounders.

[Invictus88]

Kinda funny seeing people lament the lack of cap space when historically we've never been able to do much with it regardless of what FO we've had.

Cap flexibility is a good thing and we still have that since the vast majority of our guys are young, on cost controlled & team friendly deals.

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This whole idea that something is less valuable (whether it be draft picks, cap space etc) because our bad front offices of the past haven't utilized them well is tired and frankly stupid. Other organizations have benefited greatly from creative usage of it. There's no logical reason why we can't.

And people aren't just lamenting lack of cap space. They are lamenting poor usage of it on obvious overpays. This is the last time I will point this out because it's clear to me that you can read countless other posts mentioning this. Yet you continue to post all over this 'surprise' at seeing folks who are upset. No. There is no surprise here. Just your unwillingness to accept simple and obvious concepts.

[Pharaoh]

Kinda funny seeing people lament the lack of cap space when historically we've never been able to do much with it regardless of what FO we've had.

Cap flexibility is a good thing and we still have that since the vast majority of our guys are young, on cost controlled & team friendly deals.

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This whole idea that something is less valuable (whether it be draft picks, cap space etc) because our bad front offices of the past haven't utilized them well is tired and frankly stupid. Other organizations have benefited greatly from creative usage of it. There's no logical reason why we can't.

And people aren't just lamenting lack of cap space. They are lamenting poor usage of it on obvious overpays. This is the last time I will point this out because it's clear to me that you can read countless other posts mentioning this. Yet you continue to post all over this 'surprise' at seeing folks who are upset. No. There is no surprise here. Just your unwillingness to accept simple and obvious concepts.

Or maybe I'm not seeing all the negatives that many of you do.

Other than Blake please list ALL the terrible contracts we have on our books now!

This off-season we've acquired Hayes, Bey, Stewart, Musa, Jackson and it's cost very little as far as real assets are concerned.


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[Piston Pete]

Other than a team who should clearly be rebuilding just capped itself to the gills with the likes of Jerami Grant, Mason Plumlee, and Delon Wright.

[Canadafan]

Taking a quick glance at the 2021-2022 cap situation.

Griffin: $39 mil
Grant: $20 mil
Wright: $8.5 mil
Plumlee: $8.3 mil
Hayes: $4.6 mil
Jackson: $4.5 mil
Doumbouya: $3 mil
Stewart: $2.7 mil
Bey: $2.5 mil
Okafor: $2 mil

Dead cap of Dedmon/Smith: $4 mil (stretched)
Dead cap of McGruder: $1 mil (waived)

Assuming Musa's option is declined, and Svi signs elsewhere.

That all adds up to right at $100 million. Which would put Detroit at around $10 mil under the salary cap for 2021-2022. However, when you factor in what looks like a relatively high 2021 draft pick, Detroit will basically be capped out in 2021.

So Weaver essentially capped Detroit out for 2021, while potentially owing Houston a future late 1st and not having any 2nd rounders until 2027. All the while not bringing in any extra picks for Detroit.

Unless Jackson blows up, I really don't see any tradeable commodities that will fetch any kind of significant draft pick compensation. If any of the other young guys blow up, you aren't trading them. Even if Jackson shows out, you probably don't want to move him either as he's only 23.

This sure doesn't seem like a productive way to enter a rebuild.

Our only hope is that Blake opts out next summer. Even if that happens, its a scary proposition to arm Weaver with $40 mil in cap space.

All I see with this and our lack of space next summer is Weaver guarantees we finally not only are crap this upcoming season which gets us a top5 pick but also the following year.
So it's what pretty much everyone wanted.
Our 3 rooks this year.
2021 + 2022 top5 picks
Sekou
Grant
And while we're sucking this year at least we'll be interesting to see how our young guys are improving.

[Canadafan]

Other than a team who should clearly be rebuilding just capped itself to the gills with the likes of Jerami Grant, Mason Plumlee, and Delon Wright.

It's an obvious stealth tank.
What better way to rebuild than to have two great draft picks in the next two drafts which are going to be deep and full of game changing talent

[BadMofoPimp]

Don't matter what year it is, if a team has takers, anyone can be moved and the team can get way under the cap. Just because we have $100 million on the cap now means nothing. It can be erased fairly quick.

[Piston Pete]

Don't matter what year it is, if a team has takers, anyone can be moved and the team can get way under the cap. Just because we have $100 million on the cap now means nothing. It can be erased fairly quick.

Don’t tempt Weaver - he’ll stretch everyone out of town!!

[Canadafan]

Rose colored glasses. Lmao
This team has driven me crazy for the last 12yrs and I refuse to accept reality right now. None of you can tell me any different. We are somehow under the control of a competent and quite possibly a genius of a man. Weaver is the next jerry west.
I cannot flail around for the next decade. This dude has to be the man he has to!!

[thesack12]

Taking a quick glance at the 2021-2022 cap situation.

Griffin: $39 mil
Grant: $20 mil
Wright: $8.5 mil
Plumlee: $8.3 mil
Hayes: $4.6 mil
Jackson: $4.5 mil
Doumbouya: $3 mil
Stewart: $2.7 mil
Bey: $2.5 mil
Okafor: $2 mil

Dead cap of Dedmon/Smith: $4 mil (stretched)
Dead cap of McGruder: $1 mil (waived)

Assuming Musa's option is declined, and Svi signs elsewhere.

That all adds up to right at $100 million. Which would put Detroit at around $10 mil under the salary cap for 2021-2022. However, when you factor in what looks like a relatively high 2021 draft pick, Detroit will basically be capped out in 2021.

So Weaver essentially capped Detroit out for 2021, while potentially owing Houston a future late 1st and not having any 2nd rounders until 2027. All the while not bringing in any extra picks for Detroit.

Unless Jackson blows up, I really don't see any tradeable commodities that will fetch any kind of significant draft pick compensation. If any of the other young guys blow up, you aren't trading them. Even if Jackson shows out, you probably don't want to move him either as he's only 23.

This sure doesn't seem like a productive way to enter a rebuild.

Our only hope is that Blake opts out next summer. Even if that happens, its a scary proposition to arm Weaver with $40 mil in cap space.

All I see with this and our lack of space next summer is Weaver guarantees we finally not only are crap this upcoming season which gets us a top5 pick but also the following year.
So it's what pretty much everyone wanted.
Our 3 rooks this year.
2021 + 2022 top5 picks
Sekou
Grant
And while we're sucking this year at least we'll be interesting to see how our young guys are improving.

This is what you/we hope happens. There are zero guarantees Detroit will get a top 5 pick. Hell, Detroit finished with a bottom 5 record last season, and still ended up with the 7th pick.

Pistons could have easily positioned themselves to be in the top 5 pick conversation while still maintaining cap flexibility and not giving away a pile of picks.

No matter what any of us think this year's record is going to be, Detroit would have been better off maintaining cap flexibility and keeping ownership of most of their picks.

[Invictus88]

Kinda funny seeing people lament the lack of cap space when historically we've never been able to do much with it regardless of what FO we've had.

Cap flexibility is a good thing and we still have that since the vast majority of our guys are young, on cost controlled & team friendly deals.

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This whole idea that something is less valuable (whether it be draft picks, cap space etc) because our bad front offices of the past haven't utilized them well is tired and frankly stupid. Other organizations have benefited greatly from creative usage of it. There's no logical reason why we can't.

And people aren't just lamenting lack of cap space. They are lamenting poor usage of it on obvious overpays. This is the last time I will point this out because it's clear to me that you can read countless other posts mentioning this. Yet you continue to post all over this 'surprise' at seeing folks who are upset. No. There is no surprise here. Just your unwillingness to accept simple and obvious concepts.

Or maybe I'm not seeing all the negatives that many of you do.

Other than Blake please list ALL the terrible contracts we have on our books now!

This off-season we've acquired Hayes, Bey, Stewart, Musa, Jackson and it's cost very little as far as real assets are concerned.


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Jeremi Grant, Plumlee, Wright and the waiving and stretching of Dedmon and possiblt Macgruder. None of which were necessary; some done to enable the other bad signings.

I really like the influx of young talent we have coming in by other means; but the moves I mention are oretty terrible

You're being dishonest by dwelling completely on one and ignoring the rest.

[Pharaoh]

Gave away a pile of picks?

Please list the pile of picks we gave away.


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[Pharaoh]

This whole idea that something is less valuable (whether it be draft picks, cap space etc) because our bad front offices of the past haven't utilized them well is tired and frankly stupid. Other organizations have benefited greatly from creative usage of it. There's no logical reason why we can't.

And people aren't just lamenting lack of cap space. They are lamenting poor usage of it on obvious overpays. This is the last time I will point this out because it's clear to me that you can read countless other posts mentioning this. Yet you continue to post all over this 'surprise' at seeing folks who are upset. No. There is no surprise here. Just your unwillingness to accept simple and obvious concepts.

Or maybe I'm not seeing all the negatives that many of you do.

Other than Blake please list ALL the terrible contracts we have on our books now!

This off-season we've acquired Hayes, Bey, Stewart, Musa, Jackson and it's cost very little as far as real assets are concerned.


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Jeremi Grant, Plumlee, Wright and the waiving and stretching of Dedmon and possiblt Macgruder. None of which were necessary; some done to enable the other bad signings.

I really like the influx of young talent we have coming in by other means; but the moves I mention are oretty terrible

You're being dishonest by dwelling completely on one and ignoring the rest.

I personally don't have a problem with signing Grant, even at that price.

Someone posted the list of dudes he defended in the playoffs...he covered almost every position depending on the series.

He's 26 and is betting on himself instead of settling for a lesser role in Denver.

Signing Plumlee doesn't really bother me either since he got less than the full MLE and has never averaged over 29 minutes per game. That's unlikely to change now he's 30.

The stretches are weird but the long term cap hit there is minimal and I don't care if Dedmon or McGruder are on the roster or not. I'd prefer they're not tbh.

Given all the young dudes we now have on the books I'm pretty happy with the end result thus far.

It's not exactly what I would have done or wanted but we're still gonna suck the next 2 years and cap wise we're not going to sign any vets for a playoff push any time soon.

That's a very good thing and actually shows where Weaver wants to be right now: racing to the bottom of the East with no temptation for Gores to demand us blow our cap on "stars" to team with Blake and Rose!

I actually believe Weaver is tanking hard af, just not going full Hinkie with it. We have vets that should help teach the kids and police the locker room...

And that's a good thing cause a whole team of under 26 year olds on short term or rookie deals can easily turn in to a selfish exercise of proving their worth & create a massive dysfunctional mess!

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[thesack12]

Gave away a pile of picks?

Please list the pile of picks we gave away.


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Future protected 1st and the '21 Toronto 2nd in the Ariza/Wright/Wood trade
3 Detroit 2nds and Portland '23 2nd to LAC in the Brown/Kennard
The '21 Lakers 2nd went out also, can't remember off the top of my head.

Detroit currently doesn't own a 2nd round pick until 2027

[Piston Pete]

That there looks like a pile-o-picks

[Pharaoh]

Gave away a pile of picks?

Please list the pile of picks we gave away.


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Future protected 1st and the '21 Toronto 2nd in the Ariza/Wright/Wood trade
3 Detroit 2nds and Portland '23 2nd to LAC in the Brown/Kennard
The '21 Lakers 2nd went out also, can't remember off the top of my head.

Detroit currently doesn't own a 2nd round pick until 2027

I've already posted the protections on the first we sent. To keep it simple it's top 16 protected including 2024, top 10 protected including 2026, top 9 protected in 2027 then becomes a 2nd rounder.

What we've done is deal a bunch of 2nd rounders!

Oh no, that pile of picks is going to haunt us!

Can always look at it as trading all those 2nds for Wright, Jackson, Musa, Okafor, Lee, Hands, McGruder...

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[Piston Pete]

How many picks (1st or 2nd) has OKC dealt away this off-season ?

How many picks (1st or 2nd) has OKC accumulated this off-season ?