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Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks...

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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#81 » by Laimbeer » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:52 pm

Has anyone ever seen Weaver and Dumars in the same room?
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#82 » by Snakebites » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:01 pm

thesack12 wrote:After the Bruce Brown trade was first announced:

"This is a good trade, we got a 2nd rounder for Brown. Even if its a late one, a 2nd rounder is still an asset."

After the announcement that Detroit is sending out FOUR 2nds that were previously not reported in the expanded Kennard/Brown trade:

"Meh, 2nds don't really matter."

I wasn’t wild about that trade.

I just thought Bruce Brown wasn’t a viable piece moving forward and wasn’t worth getting upset over. He didn’t fit what Weaver wants to build.

I’m really not sure there’s anyone simultaneously holding both of these positions.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#83 » by thesack12 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:13 pm

Snakebites wrote:
thesack12 wrote:After the Bruce Brown trade was first announced:

"This is a good trade, we got a 2nd rounder for Brown. Even if its a late one, a 2nd rounder is still an asset."

After the announcement that Detroit is sending out FOUR 2nds that were previously not reported in the expanded Kennard/Brown trade:

"Meh, 2nds don't really matter."

I wasn’t wild about that trade.

I just thought Bruce Brown wasn’t a viable piece moving forward and wasn’t worth getting upset over. He didn’t fit what Weaver wants to build.

I’m really not sure there’s anyone simultaneously holding both of these positions.


It was more of a reflection on the general sentiment of the board following both of those announcements.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#84 » by Snakebites » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:23 pm

thesack12 wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
thesack12 wrote:After the Bruce Brown trade was first announced:

"This is a good trade, we got a 2nd rounder for Brown. Even if its a late one, a 2nd rounder is still an asset."

After the announcement that Detroit is sending out FOUR 2nds that were previously not reported in the expanded Kennard/Brown trade:

"Meh, 2nds don't really matter."

I wasn’t wild about that trade.

I just thought Bruce Brown wasn’t a viable piece moving forward and wasn’t worth getting upset over. He didn’t fit what Weaver wants to build.

I’m really not sure there’s anyone simultaneously holding both of these positions.


It was more of a reflection on the general sentiment of the board following both of those announcements.

Right. I don’t think that’s really true with respect to the Brown trade, at least not for a majority, but lets take that and see where it goes.

Your post is trying to show that there’s double think going on here (if it’s not, then there really isn’t a meaningful point), that people are somehow holding different standards just so they can be happy about moves.

Only individuals can have double standards. Not groups.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#85 » by thesack12 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:24 pm

Snakebites wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
Snakebites wrote:I wasn’t wild about that trade.

I just thought Bruce Brown wasn’t a viable piece moving forward and wasn’t worth getting upset over. He didn’t fit what Weaver wants to build.

I’m really not sure there’s anyone simultaneously holding both of these positions.


It was more of a reflection on the general sentiment of the board following both of those announcements.

Right. I don’t think that’s really true with respect to the Brown trade, at least not for a majority, but lets take that and see where it goes.

Your post is trying to show that there’s double think going on here (if it’s not, then there really isn’t a meaningful point), that people are somehow holding different standards just so they can be happy about moves.

Only individuals can have double standards. Not groups.


Or I'm trying to be diplomatic and not call out the individuals that have played on both sides of that fence.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#86 » by Snakebites » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:26 pm

thesack12 wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
It was more of a reflection on the general sentiment of the board following both of those announcements.

Right. I don’t think that’s really true with respect to the Brown trade, at least not for a majority, but lets take that and see where it goes.

Your post is trying to show that there’s double think going on here (if it’s not, then there really isn’t a meaningful point), that people are somehow holding different standards just so they can be happy about moves.

Only individuals can have double standards. Not groups.


Or I'm trying to be diplomatic and not call out the individuals that have played on both sides of that fence.

Yeah. Okay.

Second rounders are minor assets. Not worth getting upset over. Ditto to Bruce Brown. Many believe he developed into more of an asset than that. I am not one of them.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#87 » by edmunder_prc » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:38 pm

I look at 2nd rounders as lottery tickets. But they get progressively worse. And they have very good contracts.

So a 2nd rounder in the 31-40 range is pretty good. Especially the 31-35. There were guys that people assumed would go first round that have very team friendly contracts. 31 was Terry and 35 was Tillman.

At 58 its really unlikely to find hidden gems.

Id say a 31-35 ticket is worth double or triple a 55-60 ticket.

Still, giving away a handful of tickets is not a good strategy. I know, if Bey plays like a top 10 draft pick, its a win. A big win. It just goes against the idea of getting more tickets and hoping for hits.

The team will likely have cap space the next couple of years to absorb junk while Pistons tank, so 2nds get be found that way. I dont like the math of it overall.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#88 » by tradez401 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:43 pm

I'm loving Weaver ripping this team to shreds and now building it from the ground up free agency hasn't started yet so we don't know what signings and more trades will be made I'm sure Weaver will make up for dealing those 2nd rounders.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#89 » by zeebneeb » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:58 pm

Snakebites wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Right. I don’t think that’s really true with respect to the Brown trade, at least not for a majority, but lets take that and see where it goes.

Your post is trying to show that there’s double think going on here (if it’s not, then there really isn’t a meaningful point), that people are somehow holding different standards just so they can be happy about moves.

Only individuals can have double standards. Not groups.


Or I'm trying to be diplomatic and not call out the individuals that have played on both sides of that fence.

Yeah. Okay.

Second rounders are minor assets. Not worth getting upset over. Ditto to Bruce Brown. Many believe he developed into more of an asset than that. I am not one of them.
Agreed. If this had been some sloppy rebuild attempt, and this happened then I may have been upset at giving up 2nd rounders, but with the way the team is being torn apart by a pack of dogs as it was a discarded Turkey on Thanksgiving, I don't care.

I want first round picks, and genuine talent picked up.

I look at the two exciting picks(Hayes&Bey)and the two relatively unknown(Stewart&other guy)as an upswing for the team in dramatic fashion, and I want MORE.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#90 » by Liqourish » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:18 pm

thesack12 wrote:After the Bruce Brown trade was first announced:

"This is a good trade, we got a 2nd rounder for Brown. Even if its a late one, a 2nd rounder is still an asset."

After the announcement that Detroit is sending out FOUR 2nds that were previously not reported in the expanded Kennard/Brown trade:

"Meh, 2nds don't really matter."


Or some people just realize that Weaver is going to tear down the team and trade picks and aren’t getting bent out of shape over every isolated move. Getting picks back for players you don’t want, builds up a supply that you can send out later for a player you do want. That is how rebuilding a team works and why Weaver was brought here.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#91 » by Snakebites » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:22 pm

zeebneeb wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
Or I'm trying to be diplomatic and not call out the individuals that have played on both sides of that fence.

Yeah. Okay.

Second rounders are minor assets. Not worth getting upset over. Ditto to Bruce Brown. Many believe he developed into more of an asset than that. I am not one of them.
Agreed. If this had been some sloppy rebuild attempt, and this happened then I may have been upset at giving up 2nd rounders, but with the way the team is being torn apart by a pack of dogs as it was a discarded Turkey on Thanksgiving, I don't care.

I want first round picks, and genuine talent picked up.

I look at the two exciting picks(Hayes&Bey)and the two relatively unknown(Stewart&other guy)as an upswing for the team in dramatic fashion, and I want MORE.


Refreshing to be on the same page here.

Seems you and I rarely are. It's a nice feeling.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#92 » by bstein14 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:25 pm

Troy certainly didn't take the time to see what he had and make moves as he goes. He came in with a clean house mindset, and is cleaning house even if the offers aren't that good. Not sure that is the best for us Kennard could have gotten more after he started the season for us and got to display what he can do as a focal point of our offense. Brown also should have been able to get us a late first from a good team, or a second rounder from a bad team. We didn't really get enough for either player but some fans are excited just to see mass changes being made.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#93 » by 440BB » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:27 pm

I like the gamble myself. Snagging another top 10-15 talent now that fits our needs, possibly long term, is worth a couple extra second round picks down the road. They're less of a crapshoot than second round players. Kickstarting a rebuild is a faster way to see development and decide who you'll need to move to the next level in two years.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#94 » by zeebneeb » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:33 pm

Snakebites wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Yeah. Okay.

Second rounders are minor assets. Not worth getting upset over. Ditto to Bruce Brown. Many believe he developed into more of an asset than that. I am not one of them.
Agreed. If this had been some sloppy rebuild attempt, and this happened then I may have been upset at giving up 2nd rounders, but with the way the team is being torn apart by a pack of dogs as it was a discarded Turkey on Thanksgiving, I don't care.

I want first round picks, and genuine talent picked up.

I look at the two exciting picks(Hayes&Bey)and the two relatively unknown(Stewart&other guy)as an upswing for the team in dramatic fashion, and I want MORE.


Refreshing to be on the same page here.

Seems you and I rarely are. It's a nice feeling.
Agreed. It was time to dismantle and it's going better then I had hoped to be honest.

The one thing I'm worried about is Wood. He seems to be the real deal and I hope the Pistons try and retain him in earnest. He's exactly what you hope a 4/5 can turn into, and letting him go with the bathwater seems shortsighted. Could be a Whiteside situation, but it doesn't feel that way to me.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#95 » by NYPiston » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:43 pm

thesack12 wrote:
It was more of a reflection on the general sentiment of the board following both of those announcements.


I'm on your side in regards the Clippers/Nets trade being a poor one, and I really like Bey, but this statement isn't true at all. Nobody thought the Brown trade was "good" and in fact, some people lost their **** about Brown being dealt for some odd reason. I don't think there was anybody that was happy about the Brown trade. It was either indifference or being down on the trade.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#96 » by Snakebites » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:44 pm

zeebneeb wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:Agreed. If this had been some sloppy rebuild attempt, and this happened then I may have been upset at giving up 2nd rounders, but with the way the team is being torn apart by a pack of dogs as it was a discarded Turkey on Thanksgiving, I don't care.

I want first round picks, and genuine talent picked up.

I look at the two exciting picks(Hayes&Bey)and the two relatively unknown(Stewart&other guy)as an upswing for the team in dramatic fashion, and I want MORE.


Refreshing to be on the same page here.

Seems you and I rarely are. It's a nice feeling.
Agreed. It was time to dismantle and it's going better then I had hoped to be honest.

The one thing I'm worried about is Wood. He seems to be the real deal and I hope the Pistons try and retain him in earnest. He's exactly what you hope a 4/5 can turn into, and letting him go with the bathwater seems shortsighted. Could be a Whiteside situation, but it doesn't feel that way to me.

I'd love to keep Christian.

I don't really get the sense he's particularly attached to the team though, so I'm not optimistic- we don't have the ability to match offers or any other special rights with respect to him since he was on a short term deal, so that may already be out of the teams' hands.

Still have some hope we can swing a sign and trade to a team that's capped out. We'll see what happens.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#97 » by Manocad » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:46 pm

bstein14 wrote:Troy certainly didn't take the time to see what he had and make moves as he goes. He came in with a clean house mindset, and is cleaning house even if the offers aren't that good. Not sure that is the best for us Kennard could have gotten more after he started the season for us and got to display what he can do as a focal point of our offense. Brown also should have been able to get us a late first from a good team, or a second rounder from a bad team. We didn't really get enough for either player but some fans are excited just to see mass changes being made.

That assumes that not only would Kennard and Brown perform well but that there would be takers for them. There is no guarantee that any better deal than what Weaver got was or would be available. "Should have gotten" doesn't equate to "There was a better deal out there and Weaver missed it."

Am I excited to see both Kennard and Brown gone for a chance at something better? Yes, I am. I was never in love with Kennard because of his lack of defense and knee issues, and Brown was a known--good defense, struggled on offense. It would be one thing if he was a lockdown Ben Wallace/Dennis Rodman type of defender (or even Joe D since he's a guard), but he wasn't at that level. He was just the best defender on THIS team. Could either of them have turned into something more than they were? Sure. So can a new player. It's not a "excited just to see mass changes being made." It's "excited to see a team that looked like it didn't have a real future getting flipped for one that might."
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#98 » by Kilo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:00 pm

McGruder can be stretch released over five(maybe only four) seasons given is 1M guarantee on next years contract. So his $5.3M cap his can be reduced to 1.5M this year, saving capped out team $4M off their cap/tax number. I bet this has some value around the league and explains the second rounders.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#99 » by Paradise » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:51 am

rmfc wrote:
Paradise wrote:
guldakot wrote:Anyone know anything about Hands? Looks like he was thrown in to Detroit as well.

I’m a little upset about this addition. I was extremely excited for Jaylen to be a backup or 3rd string on the Nets next season and seasons to come. He just added 20 pounds of muscle this off-season, he’s extremely athletic but too skinny. He’s been developing nicely under our G-League Long Island team. He’s been working out with KD a lot as well.

I’d say his ceiling in the league is a very athletic playmaking backup with a very good chance to be a fringe starter if developed correctly in the right culture. Unfortunately, we couldn’t wait to develop him with Chris Chiozza, Tyler Johnson, Joe Harris expected back. Too many guards.



Jaylen seems to have decent skills on offense. How good is his defense?

He needs to add more muscle but he’s got good instincts on steals. He’s a raw athlete but his handles, finishing and some time in the G-League will help. He’s been in our program for a whole year as a stash pick.
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Re: Kennard/Brown trade a little bigger, traded Patton, 4 secod round picks... 

Post#100 » by pistonpat » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:20 pm

NYPiston wrote:Hold up. They traded FOUR!!! 2nds including three of their own in addition to Kennard for #19? That is inexcusably horrendous if true. Like Weaver you're a **** idiot level of horrendous.


and they took McGruder in the deal... well because everyone is taking advantage of Weaver while they can. And now we learn we have to stretch McGruder because Weaver backed himself into a corner. Oh, and we are already stretching Dedmon too who they traded for in the last 48 hours. Brilliant.

This dude is on crack or something. He has got scortched in every trade once the details come out...GMs lining up to do deals with the Pistons, especially if they have a center.

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