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Pistons sign Jerami Grant

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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#321 » by DNice68 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:26 am

Pharaoh wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Free agency just started and we're a month away from the REGULAR season starting. That's insane...

The offseason just started in a lot of ways, but it's also almost over.
No surprise that Weaver "attacked" all things the way he did though.

Nuke this bitch, get young, long, athletic players, give them a select few mentors that won't actually win you games on their own and race to a top 5 pick

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I agree with all of this!
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#322 » by vege » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:11 am

This is a very good video on Jerami Grant.

;list=TLPQMjQxMTIwMjBqiiC7DZsb5A&index=2
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#323 » by thesack12 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:30 pm

vege wrote:This is a very good video on Jerami Grant.

;list=TLPQMjQxMTIwMjBqiiC7DZsb5A&index=2


Thanks for posting. These are the quotes that stuck out most to me personally:

"Dribbling is something he doesn't do a lot of"
"He struggles as a self creator"
"Grant is mostly a role player".... "Role needs to be kept simple"
"Advanced defensive metrics didn't like him at all"
"Grant, who is a power forward, ranked 14th on his own team in defensive rebounding rate"
"Career worst, 4.9 RBG per 36 minutes"

The vast majority of the positive talk was centered around on ball defense, defensive versatility, and how he is well suited to be a complimentary piece on a playoff team.

Nothing in the video, made me think he is worth $20 mil on a rebuilding team devoid of playmaking.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#324 » by Han Solo » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:08 pm

thesack12 wrote:
vege wrote:This is a very good video on Jerami Grant.

;list=TLPQMjQxMTIwMjBqiiC7DZsb5A&index=2


Thanks for posting. These are the quotes that stuck out most to me personally:

"Dribbling is something he doesn't do a lot of"
"He struggles as a self creator"
"Grant is mostly a role player".... "Role needs to be kept simple"
"Advanced defensive metrics didn't like him at all"
"Grant, who is a power forward, ranked 14th on his own team in defensive rebounding rate"
"Career worst, 4.9 RBG per 36 minutes"

The vast majority of the positive talk was centered around on ball defense, defensive versatility, and how he is well suited to be a complimentary piece on a playoff team.

Nothing in the video, made me think he is worth $20 mil on a rebuilding team devoid of playmaking.


Damn Grant looks like a dog. He’s going to be so good
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#325 » by ducler » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:11 pm

It's like we gave up Drummond for Grant + Plumlee. Hard workers, solid defenders with a nice motor... Oh yes I prefer them rather than Andre to mentor our youngsters.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#326 » by vege » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:37 pm

thesack12 wrote:
vege wrote:This is a very good video on Jerami Grant.

;list=TLPQMjQxMTIwMjBqiiC7DZsb5A&index=2


Thanks for posting. These are the quotes that stuck out most to me personally:

"Dribbling is something he doesn't do a lot of"
"He struggles as a self creator"
"Grant is mostly a role player".... "Role needs to be kept simple"
"Advanced defensive metrics didn't like him at all"
"Grant, who is a power forward, ranked 14th on his own team in defensive rebounding rate"
"Career worst, 4.9 RBG per 36 minutes"

The vast majority of the positive talk was centered around on ball defense, defensive versatility, and how he is well suited to be a complimentary piece on a playoff team.

Nothing in the video, made me think he is worth $20 mil on a rebuilding team devoid of playmaking.


The 2 things that surprised me are how bad he is at defensive rebounding and that he was very good as a small ball center. He is a 4/5 not a 3 like most people around here think.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#327 » by zeebneeb » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:24 pm

thesack12 wrote:
vege wrote:This is a very good video on Jerami Grant.

;list=TLPQMjQxMTIwMjBqiiC7DZsb5A&index=2


Thanks for posting. These are the quotes that stuck out most to me personally:

"Dribbling is something he doesn't do a lot of"
"He struggles as a self creator"
"Grant is mostly a role player".... "Role needs to be kept simple"
"Advanced defensive metrics didn't like him at all"
"Grant, who is a power forward, ranked 14th on his own team in defensive rebounding rate"
"Career worst, 4.9 RBG per 36 minutes"

The vast majority of the positive talk was centered around on ball defense, defensive versatility, and how he is well suited to be a complimentary piece on a playoff team.

Nothing in the video, made me think he is worth $20 mil on a rebuilding team devoid of playmaking.
Hayes would like to have a discussion about your "void of playmakers" comment. Also a healthy Blake.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#328 » by The Penguin » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:53 pm

The Warriors got Oubre for a 1st that's relatively unlikely to convey. He's 2 years younger than Grant and simply a better player.

Weaver got treated like the guy new to your fantasy league who posts on the message board "hi everyone, new here, but I like to make trades so let's do some deals". Paying Denver to create a TPE? All the 2nds going to the Clippers for some reason? Essentially trading Wood & a future 1st for 16 and a contract he clearly didn't want? The "brilliance" of stretching Dedmon?

I will fully admit to not being up on the salary tables like I used to be, but it sure seems like we could have kept Dedmon, passed on Plumlee, trading a protected pick for Oubre, passed on Grant, been the same level of fake competitive, kept the future cap space wide open and been sitting on a couple large expiring contracts if a team gets desperate to include picks to move some money.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#329 » by thesack12 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:55 pm

zeebneeb wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
vege wrote:This is a very good video on Jerami Grant.

;list=TLPQMjQxMTIwMjBqiiC7DZsb5A&index=2


Thanks for posting. These are the quotes that stuck out most to me personally:

"Dribbling is something he doesn't do a lot of"
"He struggles as a self creator"
"Grant is mostly a role player".... "Role needs to be kept simple"
"Advanced defensive metrics didn't like him at all"
"Grant, who is a power forward, ranked 14th on his own team in defensive rebounding rate"
"Career worst, 4.9 RBG per 36 minutes"

The vast majority of the positive talk was centered around on ball defense, defensive versatility, and how he is well suited to be a complimentary piece on a playoff team.

Nothing in the video, made me think he is worth $20 mil on a rebuilding team devoid of playmaking.
Hayes would like to have a discussion about your "void of playmakers" comment. Also a healthy Blake.


That's fine, tell them to come at me. I'm ready.

"Killian, Im ecstatic you are a Piston. I Love your upside, I think at worst you will eventually be a top 10 PG in this league. Unfortunately, right now you have 2 guys ahead of you that Coach Casey is gonna ride with. I'm afraid you will struggle get consistent minutes as a rookie. But keep your head up, I'm confident you will start to come into your own and have a much bigger role in your sophomore season."

"Blake, people don't give you enough credit for being unselfish and you are an under-rated passer. Still, most of your ball movement comes out of attracting double teams in the post and passing out of them. You aren't really a guy that is gonna break dudes down off the dribble or be on the ball possession/passing side of pick and rolls. And lets be honest with each other, you aren't in Detroit's long term plans anyway. And I would think if we're being real, you would say you have already thought about/planned the next step in your career as well."
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#330 » by thesack12 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:03 pm

The Penguin wrote:The Warriors got Oubre for a 1st that's relatively unlikely to convey. He's 2 years younger than Grant and simply a better player.

Weaver got treated like the guy new to your fantasy league who posts on the message board "hi everyone, new here, but I like to make trades so let's do some deals". Paying Denver to create a TPE? All the 2nds going to the Clippers for some reason? Essentially trading Wood & a future 1st for 16 and a contract he clearly didn't want? The "brilliance" of stretching Dedmon?

I will fully admit to not being up on the salary tables like I used to be, but it sure seems like we could have kept Dedmon, passed on Plumlee, trading a protected pick for Oubre, passed on Grant, been the same level of fake competitive, kept the future cap space wide open and been sitting on a couple large expiring contracts if a team gets desperate to include picks to move some money.


On top of getting played by Booth into making the Grant acquisition a S&T, Weaver managed to hardcap Detroit.

I mentioned it awhile back, it really is starting to seem like Weaver isn't aware of all the ramifications of some of these moves. I mean Detroit literally got nothing of value for making Grant an S&T, yet he sent Denver cash so they can create a TPE out of nothing, which provides value for Denver and he hamstrung Detroit's future to boot.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#331 » by The Moose » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:17 pm

vege wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
vege wrote:This is a very good video on Jerami Grant.

;list=TLPQMjQxMTIwMjBqiiC7DZsb5A&index=2


Thanks for posting. These are the quotes that stuck out most to me personally:

"Dribbling is something he doesn't do a lot of"
"He struggles as a self creator"
"Grant is mostly a role player".... "Role needs to be kept simple"
"Advanced defensive metrics didn't like him at all"
"Grant, who is a power forward, ranked 14th on his own team in defensive rebounding rate"
"Career worst, 4.9 RBG per 36 minutes"

The vast majority of the positive talk was centered around on ball defense, defensive versatility, and how he is well suited to be a complimentary piece on a playoff team.

Nothing in the video, made me think he is worth $20 mil on a rebuilding team devoid of playmaking.


The 2 things that surprised me are how bad he is at defensive rebounding and that he was very good as a small ball center. He is a 4/5 not a 3 like most people around here think.


I've been saying this too, his best position on offense is definitely at the 4. If we are being honest, Blake has far more SF skills than Grant, which is fortunate in a way, because it allows some flexibility of playing the 2 together.

If we were starting Grant next to someone like Greg Monroe, we might have been in a Josh Smith/Monroe/Drummond situation again
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#332 » by Piston Pete » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:20 pm

The Penguin wrote:The Warriors got Oubre for a 1st that's relatively unlikely to convey. He's 2 years younger than Grant and simply a better player.

Weaver got treated like the guy new to your fantasy league who posts on the message board "hi everyone, new here, but I like to make trades so let's do some deals". Paying Denver to create a TPE? All the 2nds going to the Clippers for some reason? Essentially trading Wood & a future 1st for 16 and a contract he clearly didn't want? The "brilliance" of stretching Dedmon?

I will fully admit to not being up on the salary tables like I used to be, but it sure seems like we could have kept Dedmon, passed on Plumlee, trading a protected pick for Oubre, passed on Grant, been the same level of fake competitive, kept the future cap space wide open and been sitting on a couple large expiring contracts if a team gets desperate to include picks to move some money.


Right on.

Weaver looking like a kid with a brand new trade toy. He’s playing checkers while all the other GMs are playing chess.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#333 » by Kilo » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:29 pm

The Penguin wrote:The Warriors got Oubre for a 1st that's relatively unlikely to convey. He's 2 years younger than Grant and simply a better player.

Weaver got treated like the guy new to your fantasy league who posts on the message board "hi everyone, new here, but I like to make trades so let's do some deals". Paying Denver to create a TPE? All the 2nds going to the Clippers for some reason? Essentially trading Wood & a future 1st for 16 and a contract he clearly didn't want? The "brilliance" of stretching Dedmon?

I will fully admit to not being up on the salary tables like I used to be, but it sure seems like we could have kept Dedmon, passed on Plumlee, trading a protected pick for Oubre, passed on Grant, been the same level of fake competitive, kept the future cap space wide open and been sitting on a couple large expiring contracts if a team gets desperate to include picks to move some money.


This is a stretch. Wood signed with Houston as a UFA with their cap space and was retcon included in the trade. Houston trade was taking on a bad contract to get the #16 - exactly the move folks have clamored for around here. Use the cap space to buy picks.
Weaver = Hinkie
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#334 » by Snakebites » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:35 pm

Man, I’m tired of talking about this already.

At least the actual season starts soon and we’ll have actual games to talk about. There’s only so many times you can pour over these arguments about contracts.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#335 » by zeebneeb » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:28 pm

Snakebites wrote:Man, I’m tired of talking about this already.

At least the actual season starts soon and we’ll have actual games to talk about. There’s only so many times you can pour over these arguments about contracts.
I agree but these current niceties between us cannot continue. It feels...off.

*takes off white dueling glove* *smack*(!!)

I disagree with whatever you said, and think we should talk about this for the next 28 days.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#336 » by The Penguin » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:06 pm

Kilo wrote:
The Penguin wrote:The Warriors got Oubre for a 1st that's relatively unlikely to convey. He's 2 years younger than Grant and simply a better player.

Weaver got treated like the guy new to your fantasy league who posts on the message board "hi everyone, new here, but I like to make trades so let's do some deals". Paying Denver to create a TPE? All the 2nds going to the Clippers for some reason? Essentially trading Wood & a future 1st for 16 and a contract he clearly didn't want? The "brilliance" of stretching Dedmon?

I will fully admit to not being up on the salary tables like I used to be, but it sure seems like we could have kept Dedmon, passed on Plumlee, trading a protected pick for Oubre, passed on Grant, been the same level of fake competitive, kept the future cap space wide open and been sitting on a couple large expiring contracts if a team gets desperate to include picks to move some money.


This is a stretch. Wood signed with Houston as a UFA with their cap space and was retcon included in the trade. Houston trade was taking on a bad contract to get the #16 - exactly the move folks have clamored for around here. Use the cap space to buy picks.



Ok.

Like I said, I'm not as plugged in as I used to be. Did the pick protections increase from the original deal when the Wood portion got added in? Did they toss us a 2nd?

I certainly understand there's some level of professionalism and curtesy involved. But it's also a zero sum game. If Houston agreed to the terms of a deal on draft night, when the Wood component was added in I surely hope we received difference consideration.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#337 » by flow » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:17 pm

One thing about Grant I like a lot, he continues to improve as a player and expand his game every year. There has been no plateau. Certainly no setback.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#338 » by Pharaoh » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:18 pm

Obvious benefit about the Grant (& Wood) sign and trades...

Both guys get the larger % increases in their deals.

Signing them outright = 5% raises.

Signing with their own teams = 8% raises

Means a lower first year salary for both

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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#339 » by thesack12 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:28 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Obvious benefit about the Grant (& Wood) sign and trades...

Both guys get the larger % increases in their deals.

Signing them outright = 5% raises.

Signing with their own teams = 8% raises

Means a lower first year salary for both

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https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare-2.html

1. Players can only get full maximum salary contracts (five years, 8% annual raises) if they remain with their previous team.

Under old versions of the NBA’s CBA, a sign-and-trade deal allowed a player to sign for the true max – in terms of total years and annual raises – even though he wasn’t remaining with his previous team. That’s no longer the case.

If, for instance, the Celtics were to sign-and-trade Kyrie Irving to another club this summer, he wouldn’t be able to receive the five years or 8% annual raises that he would if he re-signed with Boston — he’d still be eligible for the same starting salary, but would be limited to four years and 5% raises, reducing the overall value of his max contract by nearly $50MM, based on current cap projections.
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Re: Pistons sign Jerami Grant 

Post#340 » by Snakebites » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:47 pm

thesack12 wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Obvious benefit about the Grant (& Wood) sign and trades...

Both guys get the larger % increases in their deals.

Signing them outright = 5% raises.

Signing with their own teams = 8% raises

Means a lower first year salary for both

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app


https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare-2.html

1. Players can only get full maximum salary contracts (five years, 8% annual raises) if they remain with their previous team.

Under old versions of the NBA’s CBA, a sign-and-trade deal allowed a player to sign for the true max – in terms of total years and annual raises – even though he wasn’t remaining with his previous team. That’s no longer the case.

If, for instance, the Celtics were to sign-and-trade Kyrie Irving to another club this summer, he wouldn’t be able to receive the five years or 8% annual raises that he would if he re-signed with Boston — he’d still be eligible for the same starting salary, but would be limited to four years and 5% raises, reducing the overall value of his max contract by nearly $50MM, based on current cap projections.

This is correct.

Pharoah is describing a sign and trade loophole that used to exist but no longer does.

Sign and trades are still possible but they no longer allow players to attain the extra salary increase.

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