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Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition?

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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#421 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:22 am

Piston Pete wrote:Tell that to the Wolves, Cavs, and Kings

Who are all on the verge of doing...what?
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#422 » by DetroitSho » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:38 am

Manocad wrote:
Piston Pete wrote:Tell that to the Wolves, Cavs, and Kings

Who are all on the verge of doing...what?
Naw actually I think he was supporting your point. At least I hope so, because if that was a rebuttal to your point it would be the worst one I've ever seen as it actually proves your point.

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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#423 » by ByeByeDre » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:40 am

Manocad wrote:So tank, get a high draft pick, somehow continue to be really bad even though you drafted a really good player, draft another really good player but continue to be bad so you can draft another really good player...yeah, that makes sense. Of course it completely overlooks the reality that drafting really good players means the team won’t be bad anymore, but hey, never let reality get in the way of a proper rebuild. :lol:


Sixers fans everywhere:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Troy Weaver for GM of the year!
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#424 » by DetroitSho » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:43 am

ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:So tank, get a high draft pick, somehow continue to be really bad even though you drafted a really good player, draft another really good player but continue to be bad so you can draft another really good player...yeah, that makes sense. Of course it completely overlooks the reality that drafting really good players means the team won’t be bad anymore, but hey, never let reality get in the way of a proper rebuild.


Sixers fans everywhere:

Wolves, Cavs and Kings fans everywhere:


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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#425 » by ByeByeDre » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:45 am

DetroitSho wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:So tank, get a high draft pick, somehow continue to be really bad even though you drafted a really good player, draft another really good player but continue to be bad so you can draft another really good player...yeah, that makes sense. Of course it completely overlooks the reality that drafting really good players means the team won’t be bad anymore, but hey, never let reality get in the way of a proper rebuild.


Sixers fans everywhere:

Wolves, Cavs and Kings fans everywhere:


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TRollers gonna Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll
Troy Weaver for GM of the year!
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#426 » by ducler » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:08 am

And quietly Magic gave us a break by winning at Clippers...
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#427 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:57 am

ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:So tank, get a high draft pick, somehow continue to be really bad even though you drafted a really good player, draft another really good player but continue to be bad so you can draft another really good player...yeah, that makes sense. Of course it completely overlooks the reality that drafting really good players means the team won’t be bad anymore, but hey, never let reality get in the way of a proper rebuild. :lol:


Sixers fans everywhere:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Season the 76ers tank started: 2013-14
Record in 2019-20: 43-30, first round playoff exit
Championships won since 2013-14: 0
:rofl:
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#428 » by NYPiston » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:06 pm

It's very hard to intentionally tank for three straight seasons and furthermore, tanking doesn't guarantee that you win the lottery. Take a look at this season, the Pistons are 13-33 and are still likely to be in a 3-5 draft lottery slot in which the odds favor them ending up OUT of the top 5 so that would two straight bottom 5 finishes and no top 5 draft pick. You need a lot of draft luck to get the Anthony Davis's and Zion's of the world and even then, those guys have led their team nowhere.

Secondly, creating a losing culture in which the young players start to get used to losing is no way to develop. They need at least some vet support to help them along. People are complaining that Weaver built a roster that's too competitive. What? They're 13-33. What exactly is the concern here? They're really bad and still have a low chance of landing a top 3 pick. It's very hard to intentionally tank AND win lotteries.

What they need to do is draft well, you can find gems anywhere in the 1st round if you have good scouting, or have a lot of luck with the lottery balls and build a team around the youth to help them win. Everybody wants them to do the "Hinke process" and intentionally tank for multiple seasons by trading away everybody for 1sts but it hasn't really won them much and, again, it took luck to win the lotteries to land Embiid and Simmons.

Furthermore, would fans be content with rooting for the team to lose for a 3rd consecutive season? I don't know about you guys, but I'm sick of hoping for losses.
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#429 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:14 pm

NYPiston wrote:It's very hard to intentionally tank for three straight seasons and furthermore, tanking doesn't guarantee that you win the lottery. Take a look at this season, the Pistons are 13-33 and are still likely to be in a 3-5 draft lottery slot in which the odds favor them ending up OUT of the top 5 so that would two straight bottom 5 finishes and no top 5 draft pick. You need a lot of draft luck to get the Anthony Davis's and Zion's of the world and even then, those guys have led their team nowhere.

Secondly, creating a losing culture in which the young players start to get used to losing is no way to develop. They need at least some vet support to help them along. People are complaining that Weaver built a roster that's too competitive. What? They're 13-33. What exactly is the concern here? They're really bad and still have a low chance of landing a top 3 pick. It's very hard to intentionally tank AND win lotteries.

What they need to do is draft well, you can find gems anywhere in the 1st round if you have good scouting, or have a lot of luck with the lottery balls and build a team around the youth to help them win. Everybody wants them to do the "Hinke process" and intentionally tank for multiple seasons by trading away everybody for 1sts but it hasn't really won them much and, again, it took luck to win the lotteries to land Embiid and Simmons.

Furthermore, would fans be content with rooting for the team to lose for a 3rd consecutive season? I don't know about you guys, but I'm sick of hoping for losses.

I think much of it is just Weaver hate because most of it is being offended by what COULD happen next year, i.e. "Damnit, the Pistons are looking they'll be too good to get a top 3 pick next year! Weaver f***ed it up!" before that hypothetical f-up has even happened yet. Couple that with some strange obsession with the idea that a championship team can only be built from at least three consecutive top 5 draft picks. I've never seen people get mad that the team is getting better faster than expected. :crazy:
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#430 » by NYPiston » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm

Manocad wrote:I think much of it is just Weaver hate because most of it is being offended by what COULD happen next year, i.e. "Damnit, the Pistons are looking they'll be too good to get a top 3 pick next year! Weaver f***ed it up!" before that hypothetical f-up has even happened yet. Couple that with some strange obsession with the idea that a championship team can only be built from at least three consecutive top 5 draft picks. I've never seen people get mad that the team is getting better faster than expected. :crazy:


I don't get it, wouldn't you want the young guys to lead the team to more wins in their 2nd development season? It's like some posters are rooting for the young guys to flatline so they can have a small chance of drafting Chet Holmgren and Emoni Bates.

Even this season, the team has lost a ton of close games and this is after getting rid of a ton of vets. They could easily be quite a bit better than 13-33 then what would these posters say if the Pistons won 5 more games and were in OKC's position for example. That Weaver is an idiot because he drafted young players that are too good?

I would like to see a lot less Cory Joseph though when DSJ and Hayes return. No point in playing him so much with those guys back in the fold.
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#431 » by DetroitSho » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:28 pm

I swear this board ranges from "trade everyone old enough to buy liquor so we can guarantee to be terrible" to "I'll turn in my season tickets in if you dare bench Al Horford and make us less competitive". I can't keep up.

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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#432 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:35 pm

NYPiston wrote:
Manocad wrote:I think much of it is just Weaver hate because most of it is being offended by what COULD happen next year, i.e. "Damnit, the Pistons are looking they'll be too good to get a top 3 pick next year! Weaver f***ed it up!" before that hypothetical f-up has even happened yet. Couple that with some strange obsession with the idea that a championship team can only be built from at least three consecutive top 5 draft picks. I've never seen people get mad that the team is getting better faster than expected. :crazy:


I don't get it, wouldn't you want the young guys to lead the team to more wins in their 2nd development season? It's like some posters are rooting for the young guys to flatline so they can have a small chance of drafting Chet Holmgren and Emoni Bates.

Even this season, the team has lost a ton of close games and this is after getting rid of a ton of vets. They could easily be quite a bit better than 13-33 then what would these posters say if the Pistons won 5 more games and were in OKC's position for example. That Weaver is an idiot because he drafted young players that are too good?

I would like to see a lot less Cory Joseph though when DSJ and Hayes return. No point in playing him so much with those guys back in the fold.

Yeah, it seems like some people think there's this magic "good switch" that can be thrown...leave the switch off, pile up multiple high draft picks who won't be good because the "good switch" is off, then when it's time:

1. Turn "good switch" on
2. ???
3. Championship
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#433 » by ByeByeDre » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:35 pm

Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:So tank, get a high draft pick, somehow continue to be really bad even though you drafted a really good player, draft another really good player but continue to be bad so you can draft another really good player...yeah, that makes sense. Of course it completely overlooks the reality that drafting really good players means the team won’t be bad anymore, but hey, never let reality get in the way of a proper rebuild. :lol:


Sixers fans everywhere:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Season the 76ers tank started: 2013-14
Record in 2019-20: 43-30, first round playoff exit
Championships won since 2013-14: 0
:rofl:



So Troy’s going to win the Pistons a championship? LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MANOCAD SAYS TROY WEAVER IS GOING TO WIN THE PISTONS A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#434 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:38 pm

DetroitSho wrote:I swear this board ranges from "trade everyone old enough to buy liquor so we can guarantee to be terrible" to "I'll turn in my season tickets in if you dare bench Al Horford and make us less competitive". I can't keep up.

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Throw in the Miss Cleo's who know there was a good deal out there which Weaver inexplicably passed on because he sucks.
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#435 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:40 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
Sixers fans everywhere:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Season the 76ers tank started: 2013-14
Record in 2019-20: 43-30, first round playoff exit
Championships won since 2013-14: 0
:rofl:



So Troy’s going to win the Pistons a championship? LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MANOCAD SAYS TROY WEAVER IS GOING TO WIN THE PISTONS A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nope. Never said that. I get that you're embarrassed by your example but hey, you posted it, bro. Too late to throw out a strawman and a red herring to boot at this point.
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#436 » by ByeByeDre » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:47 pm

Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:Season the 76ers tank started: 2013-14
Record in 2019-20: 43-30, first round playoff exit
Championships won since 2013-14: 0
:rofl:



So Troy’s going to win the Pistons a championship? LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MANOCAD SAYS TROY WEAVER IS GOING TO WIN THE PISTONS A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nope. Never said that. I get that you're embarrassed by your example but hey, you posted it, bro. Too late to throw out a strawman and a red herring to boot at this point.


I thought the Sixers, being first in the East and all, are a terrific representation of a good team doing EXACTLY what you were just making fun of. Yet you replied, stating that they are a failure because they haven’t won a championship (yet). That, coupled with your eternal membership in the Troy Weaver Fan Club, leads one to think the obvious - THAT YOU THINK TROY IS LEADING THE PISTONS TO A CHAMPIONSHIP!
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#437 » by DetroitSho » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:52 pm

Manocad wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:I swear this board ranges from "trade everyone old enough to buy liquor so we can guarantee to be terrible" to "I'll turn in my season tickets in if you dare bench Al Horford and make us less competitive". I can't keep up.

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Throw in the Miss Cleo's who know there was a good deal out there which Weaver inexplicably passed on because he sucks.
Bruh, seriously. Everybody knows more about Troy Weaver's job than Troy Weaver.

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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#438 » by MotownMadness » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:52 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:

So Troy’s going to win the Pistons a championship? LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MANOCAD SAYS TROY WEAVER IS GOING TO WIN THE PISTONS A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nope. Never said that. I get that you're embarrassed by your example but hey, you posted it, bro. Too late to throw out a strawman and a red herring to boot at this point.


I thought the Sixers, being first in the East and all, are a terrific representation of a good team doing EXACTLY what you were just making fun of. Yet you replied, stating that they are a failure because they haven’t won a championship (yet). That, coupled with your eternal membership in the Troy Weaver Fan Club, leads one to think the obvious - THAT YOU THINK TROY IS LEADING THE PISTONS TO A CHAMPIONSHIP!

Dude you would be wanting Hinkie ran out of town if you went through the process.

We're not even 1 year in and your constantly losing it. Imagine going through a whole year of this to land Okafor as your big fish?
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#439 » by ByeByeDre » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:57 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:Nope. Never said that. I get that you're embarrassed by your example but hey, you posted it, bro. Too late to throw out a strawman and a red herring to boot at this point.


I thought the Sixers, being first in the East and all, are a terrific representation of a good team doing EXACTLY what you were just making fun of. Yet you replied, stating that they are a failure because they haven’t won a championship (yet). That, coupled with your eternal membership in the Troy Weaver Fan Club, leads one to think the obvious - THAT YOU THINK TROY IS LEADING THE PISTONS TO A CHAMPIONSHIP!

Dude you would be wanting Hinkie ran out of town if you went through the process.

We're not even 1 year in and your constantly losing it. Imagine going through a whole year of this to land Okafor as your big fish?


I loved every minute of Hinkie - despite the fact that Elton Brand almost completely blew it, Morey has been able to right the ship.

And if five years from now the Pistons are tops on the East with a month to go, I’ll eat my words. But since others have thrown out the “Championship or loser” card, I guess the bar is set high for Troy!
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#440 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:01 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:

So Troy’s going to win the Pistons a championship? LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MANOCAD SAYS TROY WEAVER IS GOING TO WIN THE PISTONS A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nope. Never said that. I get that you're embarrassed by your example but hey, you posted it, bro. Too late to throw out a strawman and a red herring to boot at this point.


I thought the Sixers, being first in the East and all, are a terrific representation of a good team doing EXACTLY what you were just making fun of. Yet you replied, stating that they are a failure because they haven’t won a championship (yet). That, coupled with your eternal membership in the Troy Weaver Fan Club, leads one to think the obvious - THAT YOU THINK TROY IS LEADING THE PISTONS TO A CHAMPIONSHIP!

Being in first in the division in an unfinished season = 0 championships. The Sixers started their process EIGHT YEARS AGO and haven't sniffed a championship yet. Wouldn't a terrific representation include a championship? Isn't that the point of tanking/rebuilding? :rofl:

I never said anything of the sort relative to Troy Weaver and if/when the Pistons would win a championship. I've just criticized some of his detractor's arguments as to why he's supposedly so terrible at his job. Criticizing Method A does not mean you endorse Method B, C or any other method. That's what's known as a strawman--misrepresenting an argument in order to then have something to attack. That's what you've done here because you have no defense for the lack of success the Sixers have had with what you feel is the successful rebuilding method. I'm giving you pearls here, kid. Take this as a teaching moment.
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