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Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition?

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ByeByeDre
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#441 » by ByeByeDre » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:08 pm

Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:Nope. Never said that. I get that you're embarrassed by your example but hey, you posted it, bro. Too late to throw out a strawman and a red herring to boot at this point.


I thought the Sixers, being first in the East and all, are a terrific representation of a good team doing EXACTLY what you were just making fun of. Yet you replied, stating that they are a failure because they haven’t won a championship (yet). That, coupled with your eternal membership in the Troy Weaver Fan Club, leads one to think the obvious - THAT YOU THINK TROY IS LEADING THE PISTONS TO A CHAMPIONSHIP!

Being in first in the division in an unfinished season = 0 championships. The Sixers started their process EIGHT YEARS AGO and haven't sniffed a championship yet. Wouldn't a terrific representation include a championship? Isn't that the point of tanking/rebuilding? :rofl:

I never said anything of the sort relative to Troy Weaver and if/when the Pistons would win a championship. I've just criticized some of his detractor's arguments as to why he's supposedly so terrible at his job. Criticizing Method A does not mean you endorse Method B, C or any other method. That's what's known as a strawman--misrepresenting an argument in order to then have something to attack. That's what you've done here because you have no defense for the lack of success the Sixers have had with what you feel is the successful rebuilding method. I'm giving you pearls here, kid. Take this as a teaching moment.


A strawman is me pointing out that the Sixers have been a successful rebuild, and you twisting it into the fact that they’ve never won a championship. Consider this a teaching moment, son. Word of the day. Strawman.
Troy Weaver for GM of the year!
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#442 » by DetroitSho » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:16 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:

So Troy’s going to win the Pistons a championship? LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MANOCAD SAYS TROY WEAVER IS GOING TO WIN THE PISTONS A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!


Nope. Never said that. I get that you're embarrassed by your example but hey, you posted it, bro. Too late to throw out a strawman and a red herring to boot at this point.


I thought the Sixers, being first in the East and all, are a terrific representation of a good team doing EXACTLY what you were just making fun of. Yet you replied, stating that they are a failure because they haven’t won a championship (yet). That, coupled with your eternal membership in the Troy Weaver Fan Club, leads one to think the obvious - THAT YOU THINK TROY IS LEADING THE PISTONS TO A CHAMPIONSHIP!
7 years later the Sixers are paying $100/year to 3 flawed/injury prone/overpaid/timid players and you think it worked because they're 1st in the East today? They'll be 2nd in the East by tonight.

7 years later they've been out of the first round once, and it worked?

7 years later and there's questions of their star players being a true fit and likely one needs to go, and it worked?

I mean they're BETTER, but as of now I'd put them as 6th most likely to win behind Utah, LA, LA, Milwaukee and Brooklyn.

So do I feel like Weaver can get us to one playoff win by 2028? Yep!

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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#443 » by MotownMadness » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:22 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
I thought the Sixers, being first in the East and all, are a terrific representation of a good team doing EXACTLY what you were just making fun of. Yet you replied, stating that they are a failure because they haven’t won a championship (yet). That, coupled with your eternal membership in the Troy Weaver Fan Club, leads one to think the obvious - THAT YOU THINK TROY IS LEADING THE PISTONS TO A CHAMPIONSHIP!

Dude you would be wanting Hinkie ran out of town if you went through the process.

We're not even 1 year in and your constantly losing it. Imagine going through a whole year of this to land Okafor as your big fish?


I loved every minute of Hinkie - despite the fact that Elton Brand almost completely blew it, Morey has been able to right the ship.

And if five years from now the Pistons are tops on the East with a month to go, I’ll eat my words. But since others have thrown out the “Championship or loser” card, I guess the bar is set high for Troy!

So what young players did Hinkie get from his 1st draft? (Not sure when Simmons was for him) is it better then

Hayes
Bey
Stewart
Lee

Now that's also without a top 5 pick which I'm assuming Hinkie had a top 3.

He also traded a young 18 and 9 Jrue Holiday for Nerlens Noel I think that 1st year in the draft. I can't remember all his moves but he was given like 5 years to work through his mistakes to get to the top of the draft and finally hit
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#444 » by DetroitSho » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:29 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
I thought the Sixers, being first in the East and all, are a terrific representation of a good team doing EXACTLY what you were just making fun of. Yet you replied, stating that they are a failure because they haven’t won a championship (yet). That, coupled with your eternal membership in the Troy Weaver Fan Club, leads one to think the obvious - THAT YOU THINK TROY IS LEADING THE PISTONS TO A CHAMPIONSHIP!

Being in first in the division in an unfinished season = 0 championships. The Sixers started their process EIGHT YEARS AGO and haven't sniffed a championship yet. Wouldn't a terrific representation include a championship? Isn't that the point of tanking/rebuilding? :rofl:

I never said anything of the sort relative to Troy Weaver and if/when the Pistons would win a championship. I've just criticized some of his detractor's arguments as to why he's supposedly so terrible at his job. Criticizing Method A does not mean you endorse Method B, C or any other method. That's what's known as a strawman--misrepresenting an argument in order to then have something to attack. That's what you've done here because you have no defense for the lack of success the Sixers have had with what you feel is the successful rebuilding method. I'm giving you pearls here, kid. Take this as a teaching moment.


A strawman is me pointing out that the Sixers have been a successful rebuild, and you twisting it into the fact that they’ve never won a championship. Consider this a teaching moment, son. Word of the day. Strawman.
WTF is your definition of success?

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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#445 » by ByeByeDre » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:30 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
MotownMadness wrote: Dude you would be wanting Hinkie ran out of town if you went through the process.

We're not even 1 year in and your constantly losing it. Imagine going through a whole year of this to land Okafor as your big fish?


I loved every minute of Hinkie - despite the fact that Elton Brand almost completely blew it, Morey has been able to right the ship.

And if five years from now the Pistons are tops on the East with a month to go, I’ll eat my words. But since others have thrown out the “Championship or loser” card, I guess the bar is set high for Troy!

So what young players did Hinkie get from his 1st draft? (Not sure when Simmons was for him) is it better then

Hayes
Bey
Stewart
Lee

Now that's also without a top 5 pick which I'm assuming Hinkie had a top 3.

He also traded a young 18 and 9 Jrue Holiday for Nerlens Noel I think that 1st year in the draft. I can't remember all his moves but he was given like 5 years to work through his mistakes to get to the top of the draft and finally hit


Just one correction - Hinkie had those years to unwind correctly, not correct his own mistakes.

Regarding the first round picks - simply - would you rather be the Pistons or the Thunder right now? Because Hinkie basically did what the Thunder is doing.

Hinkie loaded up on picks and cap space, Weaver loaded up on first round draft picks in a weak draft and spent all the money (and stretched two guys).

And the thread where we were all asked by Laimbeer about which franchises were in worse shape than Detroit, how many said OKC?
Troy Weaver for GM of the year!
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#446 » by MotownMadness » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:37 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
I loved every minute of Hinkie - despite the fact that Elton Brand almost completely blew it, Morey has been able to right the ship.

And if five years from now the Pistons are tops on the East with a month to go, I’ll eat my words. But since others have thrown out the “Championship or loser” card, I guess the bar is set high for Troy!

So what young players did Hinkie get from his 1st draft? (Not sure when Simmons was for him) is it better then

Hayes
Bey
Stewart
Lee

Now that's also without a top 5 pick which I'm assuming Hinkie had a top 3.

He also traded a young 18 and 9 Jrue Holiday for Nerlens Noel I think that 1st year in the draft. I can't remember all his moves but he was given like 5 years to work through his mistakes to get to the top of the draft and finally hit


Just one correction - Hinkie had those years to unwind correctly, not correct his own mistakes.

Regarding the first round picks - simply - would you rather be the Pistons or the Thunder right now? Because Hinkie basically did what the Thunder is doing.

Hinkie loaded up on picks and cap space, Weaver loaded up on first round draft picks in a weak draft and spent all the money (and stretched two guys).

And the thread where we were all asked by Laimbeer about which franchises were in worse shape than Detroit, how many said OKC?

Ask again after we at least get our draft pick. Say Pistons get Cade and he's a star then things start to change quickly. I like alot of our young talent just as much as theirs excluding some like SGA but the NBA is a sport where 1 player can make a big difference.

Like would you rather be OKC with their picks or would rather just be the Mavs and have Doncic locked up?
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#447 » by MotownMadness » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:51 pm

Right now Tankathon has OKC as 3rd and Det as 4th in draft power rankings. It's gonna come down to who can draft better flat out.

OKC- 8, 17, 31, 38, 53
DET- 3, 37, 49, 55
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#448 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:46 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
I thought the Sixers, being first in the East and all, are a terrific representation of a good team doing EXACTLY what you were just making fun of. Yet you replied, stating that they are a failure because they haven’t won a championship (yet). That, coupled with your eternal membership in the Troy Weaver Fan Club, leads one to think the obvious - THAT YOU THINK TROY IS LEADING THE PISTONS TO A CHAMPIONSHIP!

Being in first in the division in an unfinished season = 0 championships. The Sixers started their process EIGHT YEARS AGO and haven't sniffed a championship yet. Wouldn't a terrific representation include a championship? Isn't that the point of tanking/rebuilding? :rofl:

I never said anything of the sort relative to Troy Weaver and if/when the Pistons would win a championship. I've just criticized some of his detractor's arguments as to why he's supposedly so terrible at his job. Criticizing Method A does not mean you endorse Method B, C or any other method. That's what's known as a strawman--misrepresenting an argument in order to then have something to attack. That's what you've done here because you have no defense for the lack of success the Sixers have had with what you feel is the successful rebuilding method. I'm giving you pearls here, kid. Take this as a teaching moment.


A strawman is me pointing out that the Sixers have been a successful rebuild, and you twisting it into the fact that they’ve never won a championship. Consider this a teaching moment, son. Word of the day. Strawman.

:rofl:
That's not a strawman. You feel it's been successful even though they haven't sniffed a championship in eight years after starting the process. I don't...which is the whole point of the debate. A strawman example would be me saying that you're guaranteeing the Sixers will win a championship so I can attack your guarantee since it's something you clearly can't do. Sorta like "So what you're saying is..." then plugging in something the person didn't say, and attacking it. Sound familiar?

Don't use the big words if you can't apply them properly. Here endeth the lesson, child.
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#449 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:50 pm

DetroitSho wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:Nope. Never said that. I get that you're embarrassed by your example but hey, you posted it, bro. Too late to throw out a strawman and a red herring to boot at this point.


I thought the Sixers, being first in the East and all, are a terrific representation of a good team doing EXACTLY what you were just making fun of. Yet you replied, stating that they are a failure because they haven’t won a championship (yet). That, coupled with your eternal membership in the Troy Weaver Fan Club, leads one to think the obvious - THAT YOU THINK TROY IS LEADING THE PISTONS TO A CHAMPIONSHIP!
7 years later the Sixers are paying $100/year to 3 flawed/injury prone/overpaid/timid players and you think it worked because they're 1st in the East today? They'll be 2nd in the East by tonight.

7 years later they've been out of the first round once, and it worked?

7 years later and there's questions of their star players being a true fit and likely one needs to go, and it worked?

I mean they're BETTER, but as of now I'd put them as 6th most likely to win behind Utah, LA, LA, Milwaukee and Brooklyn.

So do I feel like Weaver can get us to one playoff win by 2028? Yep!

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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Testify!
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#450 » by ByeByeDre » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:13 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:So what young players did Hinkie get from his 1st draft? (Not sure when Simmons was for him) is it better then

Hayes
Bey
Stewart
Lee

Now that's also without a top 5 pick which I'm assuming Hinkie had a top 3.

He also traded a young 18 and 9 Jrue Holiday for Nerlens Noel I think that 1st year in the draft. I can't remember all his moves but he was given like 5 years to work through his mistakes to get to the top of the draft and finally hit


Just one correction - Hinkie had those years to unwind correctly, not correct his own mistakes.

Regarding the first round picks - simply - would you rather be the Pistons or the Thunder right now? Because Hinkie basically did what the Thunder is doing.

Hinkie loaded up on picks and cap space, Weaver loaded up on first round draft picks in a weak draft and spent all the money (and stretched two guys).

And the thread where we were all asked by Laimbeer about which franchises were in worse shape than Detroit, how many said OKC?

Ask again after we at least get our draft pick. Say Pistons get Cade and he's a star then things start to change quickly. I like alot of our young talent just as much as theirs excluding some like SGA but the NBA is a sport where 1 player can make a big difference.

Like would you rather be OKC with their picks or would rather just be the Mavs and have Doncic locked up?


I agree with you - OKC over the Pistons.

Totally rather be the Mavs over OKC
Troy Weaver for GM of the year!
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#451 » by ByeByeDre » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:17 pm

Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:Being in first in the division in an unfinished season = 0 championships. The Sixers started their process EIGHT YEARS AGO and haven't sniffed a championship yet. Wouldn't a terrific representation include a championship? Isn't that the point of tanking/rebuilding? :rofl:

I never said anything of the sort relative to Troy Weaver and if/when the Pistons would win a championship. I've just criticized some of his detractor's arguments as to why he's supposedly so terrible at his job. Criticizing Method A does not mean you endorse Method B, C or any other method. That's what's known as a strawman--misrepresenting an argument in order to then have something to attack. That's what you've done here because you have no defense for the lack of success the Sixers have had with what you feel is the successful rebuilding method. I'm giving you pearls here, kid. Take this as a teaching moment.


A strawman is me pointing out that the Sixers have been a successful rebuild, and you twisting it into the fact that they’ve never won a championship. Consider this a teaching moment, son. Word of the day. Strawman.

:rofl:
That's not a strawman. You feel it's been successful even though they haven't sniffed a championship in eight years after starting the process. I don't...which is the whole point of the debate. A strawman example would be me saying that you're guaranteeing the Sixers will win a championship so I can attack your guarantee since it's something you clearly can't do. Sorta like "So what you're saying is..." then plugging in something the person didn't say, and attacking it. Sound familiar?

Don't use the big words if you can't apply them properly. Here endeth the lesson, child.



Game. Set. Match. You said Championships are the only measurement, the Sixers are crap, and Weaver is awesome. Next time, keep those thoughts to yourself and you wouldn’t get the woodshed treatment.

Slurpers defeated again. Adios baby baby!
Troy Weaver for GM of the year!
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#452 » by Pharaoh » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:41 pm

Fascinating read

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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#453 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:44 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Fascinating read

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Gotta keep it entertaining. 8-)

I love the continued "You said..." which of course is nothing I said, so he's got something to attack since he can't defend his own argument.
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#454 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:45 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
A strawman is me pointing out that the Sixers have been a successful rebuild, and you twisting it into the fact that they’ve never won a championship. Consider this a teaching moment, son. Word of the day. Strawman.

:rofl:
That's not a strawman. You feel it's been successful even though they haven't sniffed a championship in eight years after starting the process. I don't...which is the whole point of the debate. A strawman example would be me saying that you're guaranteeing the Sixers will win a championship so I can attack your guarantee since it's something you clearly can't do. Sorta like "So what you're saying is..." then plugging in something the person didn't say, and attacking it. Sound familiar?

Don't use the big words if you can't apply them properly. Here endeth the lesson, child.



Game. Set. Match. You said Championships are the only measurement, the Sixers are crap, and Weaver is awesome. Next time, keep those thoughts to yourself and you wouldn’t get the woodshed treatment.

Slurpers defeated again. Adios baby baby!

:lol:
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#455 » by DetroitSho » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:00 pm

Manocad wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Fascinating read

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Gotta keep it entertaining. 8-)

I love the continued "You said..." which of course is nothing I said, so he's got something to attack since he can't defend his own argument.
His commentary is weird af at best.

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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#456 » by FloridaMan78 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:47 pm

Hi I’m new to the board, long time Pistons fan. I agree this was a great read. Happy to join.
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#457 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:54 pm

FloridaMan78 wrote:Hi I’m new to the board, long time Pistons fan. I agree this was a great read. Happy to join.

Previous Florida man myself; grew up in Sarasota. Welcome!
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#458 » by zeebneeb » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:22 pm

FloridaMan78 wrote:Hi I’m new to the board, long time Pistons fan. I agree this was a great read. Happy to join.
So, as a new member what do you think of the job Weaver has done so far?
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#459 » by FloridaMan78 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:23 pm

Manocad wrote:
FloridaMan78 wrote:Hi I’m new to the board, long time Pistons fan. I agree this was a great read. Happy to join.

Previous Florida man myself; grew up in Sarasota. Welcome!


Thanks man! I’m in Haines City north of Sarasota. I grew in Clarkston Mi, been watching the pistons since 84’
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Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#460 » by ByeByeDre » Thu Apr 1, 2021 12:24 am

:D
Manocad wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:
Manocad wrote::rofl:
That's not a strawman. You feel it's been successful even though they haven't sniffed a championship in eight years after starting the process. I don't...which is the whole point of the debate. A strawman example would be me saying that you're guaranteeing the Sixers will win a championship so I can attack your guarantee since it's something you clearly can't do. Sorta like "So what you're saying is..." then plugging in something the person didn't say, and attacking it. Sound familiar?

Don't use the big words if you can't apply them properly. Here endeth the lesson, child.



Game. Set. Match. You said Championships are the only measurement, the Sixers are crap, and Weaver is awesome. Next time, keep those thoughts to yourself and you wouldn’t get the woodshed treatment.

Slurpers defeated again. Adios baby baby!

:lol:


:D :D
Troy Weaver for GM of the year!

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