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Figured we need a long term place to yell at how stupid Casey is.


What I think:

Casey is trying to win as many games as possible. Casey has weird ideas about "The League" and he has talked about it before. That the veterans deserve their due for staying in the league, being professional, doing their job in practice, etc.

Casey is going to continue to play the vets to bring up their value to trade them. Derrick Rose and Ellington are good players on cheap contracts that make sense for contenders. Mid-March is the trade deadline and I think they will be "showcased" until then.

I personally think this is stupid and Bey, Stewart, Saben Lee have already shown enough they need to play every game, 20 minutes at least.

I like Delon Wright and he played some huge games last year for the Mavericks. His job is walk the ball up the court and pass it to Blake Griffin. Below are some highlights where Delon Wright played like an all-star from a few years ago. He could possibly play like this but he is terrified of doing anything other than walking up the court to pass to Blake, because that is the system Casey has installed. If you dont walk up to court and pass to Blake, you sit on the bench.



Casey has a system that is terrible, he plays vets because they are due and probably are being showcased.


Blake should be cut, he is that bad right now.

In the system that makes the Pistons PG walk up the court and pass to Blake, Svi should have that job because its possible he could shoot lights out some games.

The team should look like something below.

Svi - Saben Lee
Josh Jackson - Wright(limited minutes)
Bey - Sekou
Grant - Sekou
Stewart - G-league guy

Trying to win meaningless games and prove shouldn't be a head coach more or less

I posted this in another thread:

Is he playing fugly rotations on purpose?

Maybe he’s been told to try and lose games without it looking obvious?

I mean if he did what we all want him to do, and played the kids, I’d worry about us winning more games with them versus playing Blake’s corpse, Plumlee, Ellington, and the rest of the vets.

Wright / Rose / FrankJax
JoshJax / Svi
Grant
Sekou
Stewart

^^ I think that lineup gets us more wins than what we’ve been watching.

I think it's a mixed bag

pg = started hayes and force fed him minutes. kept rose on the bench. Great start
sg - started wright. Moved to jackson when hayes went down. Jackson goes down and we're on ellington. I'm giving this one an incomplete. If jackson develops here, I'll be happy. Really want to see svi in over ellington though.
sf - grant playing like an all-star. Bey averaging 20 mpg. Hard to complain about that.
pf - no excuse for riding him this many minutes. I don't think you can bench him outright in a players league, but he's past the point of being showcased.
c - plumlee - meh. What is the alternative? Stewart is getting about as many minutes as he can handle without fouling out and okafor is nailed to the bench.

Think Casey is to blame for a whole load of things people dump on the FO:

The system where your PG walks it up, gives it to Blake and then goes away was in place for Hayes and did nothing for him!

The idea that you earn your minutes isn't entirely wrong but how does Bey play so well and then get next to no minutes the next game? How does Sekou get a DNP then play over 15 the next game? That's not them earning minutes - it's either a rest plan or it's **** bull!

Casey boggles my mind tbh

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Casey was never the right coach for this team initially. Now he's just an awful fit for the current state of the team.

Pretty much everything Casey does/believes is antiquated. His excuse of an offense is pathetic, and his defensive schemes are overrated. Its blatanly obvious that he was only holding back the Raptors for many years. The first year Nurse takes over, they win a 'ship. While many people annoint Kawhi as the primary factor, and he was huge indeed, Nurse's Kawhi'less Raptors had the 2nd best record in the NBA last season.

Been saying it for a long time, that a 63 year old Dwane Casey knows that this is his last rodeo in the lead chair, thus he has no interest in committing to a rebuild and seriously investing the youth on this team.

Casey is coaching to win, using the vets that Weaver got for him. Top five in minutes are Grant, Blake, Plumlee, Wright and Rose. Enough said.

Casey is surely not the man for a rebuild.

Fire Casey!

He surely doesn't want his career winning pourcentage to drop down due to a rebuild. He wants to win all games he can and if that means for him to use vets like Ellington or the Griffin's corpse 35/40 mpg, he will do it. Like I already said, Casey being good at developing young guys is a fantasy to me. Truth is: he has no confidence in the young guys, and at the very first mistake he will bench them for the rest of the game. So the youngsters' confidence will be on their way down as they can't play through their mistakes and as they will fear to make one once on the court.

Fire him and get Kenny Atkinson.

Caseying.

It's funny, even when he won coach of the year his own team recognized that his ideas were becoming outdated.

I always disagreed with the hiring of Casey, but at least at that time it could be rationalized as a "we need a veteran coach to try and make the playoffs with a veteran roster".

Now? If Weaver is serious about building this roster up we need a different voice in there. He was playing Hayes because he had a directive to do so. I doubt the FO is all that happy about the recent benching of Sekou and now Bey.

I think it's entirely possible a reckoning is coming soon. Coaches from previous administrations are often fired when new management comes in. This isn't technically new management, but you do get the sense Weaver has power of attorney here.

He insists on using Blake as though he's still the guy we had 2 years ago. And not just in terms of playing him a lot, but ostensibly building the rest of the rotation around him.

Casey is good for the tank. I say keep him on for the rest of this season

thesack12 wrote:Its blatanly obvious that he was only holding back the Raptors for many years. The first year Nurse takes over, they win a 'ship. While many people annoint Kawhi as the primary factor, and he was huge indeed, Nurse's Kawhi'less Raptors had the 2nd best record in the NBA last season.

casey led a kawhi-less raptors to the 2nd best record in the league in 2018. both the 2018 and 2020 raps lost in the second round. and this season both the raps and pistons have among the worst records in the league.

your example only solidifies the "kawhi factor".

Pharaoh wrote:Think Casey is to blame for a whole load of things people dump on the FO:

The system where your PG walks it up, gives it to Blake and then goes away was in place for Hayes and did nothing for him!

The idea that you earn your minutes isn't entirely wrong but how does Bey play so well and then get next to no minutes the next game? How does Sekou get a DNP then play over 15 the next game? That's not them earning minutes - it's either a rest plan or it's **** bull!

Casey boggles my mind tbh

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This is what I hate more than anything about both Casey and SVG.

There's nothing wrong with having to earn minutes. That's how it should always be. But when a player does earn minutes only for the coach to ignore him, not only does it damage the team, but the player as well. There's no legitimizing it under any circumstances. But when your team stinks and is going nowhere to begin with, it's a sin.

flow wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:Think Casey is to blame for a whole load of things people dump on the FO:

The system where your PG walks it up, gives it to Blake and then goes away was in place for Hayes and did nothing for him!

The idea that you earn your minutes isn't entirely wrong but how does Bey play so well and then get next to no minutes the next game? How does Sekou get a DNP then play over 15 the next game? That's not them earning minutes - it's either a rest plan or it's **** bull!

Casey boggles my mind tbh

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

This is what I hate more than anything about both Casey and SVG.

There's nothing wrong with having to earn minutes. That's how it should always be. But when a player does earn minutes only for the coach to ignore him, not only does it damage the team, but the player as well. There's no legitimizing it under any circumstances. But when your team stinks and is going nowhere to begin with, it's a sin.

Yeah, both of them are stubborn about matchups. Obviously matchups matter in this league, but part of the coaches job is to find ways to minimize the impact of bad matchups and find ways you can exploit that matchup on the other end. Is Sekou on Giannis a bad matchup? Yeah. Dudes an MVP. Blake can't guard him either though, so that's not the answer.

Casey's not the best coach and probably isn't the coach we need in the long term, but looking at things from a macro-level, I don't this that his rotations are as bad as we think. Here are the minutes per game that I found today from basketball reference.

Jerami Grant: 36.3 mins
Blake Griffin: 32.4 mins
Mason Plumlee: 27.5 mins
Delon Wright: 25.8 mins
Derrick Rose: 23.7 mins
Josh Jackson: 22.3 mins
Killian Hayes: 21.1 mins
Saddiq Bey: 20.3 mins
Wayne Ellington: 18.9 mins
Isaiah Stewart: 16.6 mins
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk: 15.9 mins
Sekou Doumbouya: 11.8 mins
Jahlil Okafor: 10.5 mins
Saben Lee: 8.7 mins
Frank Jackson: 8 mins
Rodney McGruder: 6 mins
Deividas Sirvydis: 1 mins

Right off the bat, Sekou's minutes stands out as a problem. He's still super young, but should be at level on par with Stewart's minutes, if not getting 20 a night.

But besides that, there isn't too much to complain about. Hayes (when he was playing), Bey, and Stewart all are getting significant minutes. Like would anyone be too upset to know that Hayes and Bey were going to get 20 minutes a night while Stewart would quickly jump over Okafor at average more than 15 minutes?

whitehops wrote:

thesack12 wrote:Its blatanly obvious that he was only holding back the Raptors for many years. The first year Nurse takes over, they win a 'ship. While many people annoint Kawhi as the primary factor, and he was huge indeed, Nurse's Kawhi'less Raptors had the 2nd best record in the NBA last season.

casey led a kawhi-less raptors to the 2nd best record in the league in 2018. both the 2018 and 2020 raps lost in the second round. and this season both the raps and pistons have among the worst records in the league.

your example only solidifies the "kawhi factor".

Does it?

We need to remember that Nick Nurse was not brought in from the outside, he had his fingerprints all over the Raptors. In fact he was Toronto's "offensive coordinator" in the 17-18 season you mentioned with Casey at the helm. Its not hard to imagine that Nurse's presence was a huge benefit to those teams and Casey himself.

Also, you are not taking into account that Toronto had to trade away assets to bring Kawhi in. So when they lost him, its not they they had the same caliber of roster they had pre-Kawhi. They also lost a key role player in Danny Green at the same time, with no 1st round pick to help restack the deck.

If we are taking into consideration the small sample size of the 13 game old 20-21 season, I will point out that they lost both Gasol and Ibaka to free agency. Plus Nurse has Chris Boucher, who was nothing more than an afterthought previously, currently firmly in the MIP discussion with his play to start the season. And they are currently holding a 3 game win streak.

Since he got to LA, Kawhi's Clippers haven't exactly been setting the NBA on fire either.

flow wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:Think Casey is to blame for a whole load of things people dump on the FO:

The system where your PG walks it up, gives it to Blake and then goes away was in place for Hayes and did nothing for him!

The idea that you earn your minutes isn't entirely wrong but how does Bey play so well and then get next to no minutes the next game? How does Sekou get a DNP then play over 15 the next game? That's not them earning minutes - it's either a rest plan or it's **** bull!

Casey boggles my mind tbh

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

This is what I hate more than anything about both Casey and SVG.

There's nothing wrong with having to earn minutes. That's how it should always be. But when a player does earn minutes only for the coach to ignore him, not only does it damage the team, but the player as well. There's no legitimizing it under any circumstances. But when your team stinks and is going nowhere to begin with, it's a sin.

Well, I think most coaches play the veterans (ie best chance to win), cause they aren't the GM and generally coaches don't get rewarded for losing a bunch of games developing young players. The coach and gm's objectives aren't really aligned with each other. Now if they gave Casey a 5 year extension, like maybe how Boston did with Stevens, then I could see him trying to develop 19 year olds for the future, but chances are he won't be coaching when that player actually starts to become useful.

Drwho17 wrote:

flow wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:Think Casey is to blame for a whole load of things people dump on the FO:

The system where your PG walks it up, gives it to Blake and then goes away was in place for Hayes and did nothing for him!

The idea that you earn your minutes isn't entirely wrong but how does Bey play so well and then get next to no minutes the next game? How does Sekou get a DNP then play over 15 the next game? That's not them earning minutes - it's either a rest plan or it's **** bull!

Casey boggles my mind tbh

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

This is what I hate more than anything about both Casey and SVG.

There's nothing wrong with having to earn minutes. That's how it should always be. But when a player does earn minutes only for the coach to ignore him, not only does it damage the team, but the player as well. There's no legitimizing it under any circumstances. But when your team stinks and is going nowhere to begin with, it's a sin.

Well, I think most coaches play the veterans (ie best chance to win), cause they aren't the GM and generally coaches don't get rewarded for losing a bunch of games developing young players. The coach and gm's objectives aren't really aligned with each other. Now if they gave Casey a 5 year extension, like maybe how Boston did with Stevens, then I could see him trying to develop 19 year olds for the future, but chances are he won't be coaching when that player actually starts to become useful.

It's not even about that. If I got hot today and scored 25 pts. on 6-9 shooting, coach is giving me run tomorrow. Yes to reward me, but also to see if I keep it up with my confidence high. What if today was a turning point and I'm about to blossom? That's every coach I've ever known, on every level. Only to Casey and SVG is this a foreign concept.

Another thing to consider - Casey is in year three of a five year, $35 million deal. It’s totally to Weaver’s advantage to keep him around and scapegoat him later for career extension.....

“Mr. Gores, I tried it as long as I could with your guy, now give me three years with my guy.......”