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How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with?

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How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#1 » by Laimbeer » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:10 pm

This includes all players and rights to players as well as future draft picks both owed and owned. Not franchise location, market, etc.

I'm not sure there is one. Houston has the Brooklyn picks and Wood. Cavs have some young players and a fistful of seconds. Minny has KAT.

Talk me down.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#2 » by GreekAlex » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:41 pm

The only thing that I can say in regards to the Pistons vs. other franchises is that I’m glad that we’re close to having a blank slate.

Once the Blake contract is gone after next season, the team roster will be all positive contracts & youth/ rookie contracts.

Many of the other teams with superior assets have committed to a direction but have flawed players and a shorter window in which to succeed.

I’m enjoying starting with a blank canvas and utilizing the flexibility based on how players develop and deciding what needs to be added.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#3 » by Kilo » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:07 pm

Off the top of my head - Toronto, NYK, Orlando. Probably Sacto as well. High lotto pick this year edges Detroit over Raptors and NYK IMO, of course. Could be talked into a few others.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#4 » by Pharaoh » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:56 pm

Could I remove a owner?

Could I convince the owners like Hinkie or Weaver?

Could I remove the FO?

Could I remove the coach?

We don't have a truck load of amazing assets (not every player is worth a first despite what some might think) but we do have a foundation.

I'd find it difficult to swap that for a poor owner/FO/coach combo in a different location.

Plumlee - Stewart
Grant
Bey
Wright - Jackson
Hayes - Lee

Plus the 2021 first?




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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#5 » by edmunder_prc » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:28 am

Kilo wrote:Off the top of my head - Toronto, NYK, Orlando. Probably Sacto as well. High lotto pick this year edges Detroit over Raptors and NYK IMO, of course. Could be talked into a few others.



Knicks are loaded with picks this year, when it looks like a very good year to have high picks.

They Pistons 2nd which is basically a late first.

Plus Dallas 1st.

So 17, 20, 33 right now.

Not bad - but Obi Toppin hasnt played much so I cant say if he is any good. RJ Barrett improved over last year when it looked bad. Quickley seems pretty good and Randle is about as good as Grant.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#6 » by chrbal » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:36 am

Orlando and Cleveland off the top of my head.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#7 » by bstein14 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:58 am

A top 3 pick in this draft might be worth more than the entire Orlando Roster.

Finally bottoming out, puts us ahead of some threadmill teams. Our 2021 pick is puts us overall in a better position than some other teams.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#8 » by vege » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:12 am

I like Isaac and Bamba a lot and I also like Fultz.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#9 » by buzzkilloton » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:35 am

We have Bey, Grant, and a lotto pick this year as valuable stuff. If we have better assets then any other team its not by much. Basically the value of what we own will come down to lotto balls this season.

SVG moves are what put us in this position. Bad draft picks. Trading a valuable player like Harris+lotto pick for Blake for nothing. We should of used that pick we traded on Blake on SGA or Mpjr. Harris had tons of value on the market or we could just kept him. Harris at 28 this season having the best season of his career 20.5 7.5reb 3.6assist 19.9 PER and having a 602 TS. I'd of rather traded Harris but he surely was better to have then one season of good Blake.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#10 » by Pharaoh » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:51 am

The issue with Orlando has always been the same as ours: they're trapped in no man's land!

Vuc, Fournier, AG make them too good to get a high Lotto pick but they're not good enough to win any playoff series as currently constructed.

I'd actually keep Vuc, Isaac, Fultz & Anthony.

Try to move anything else for picks, prospects, expirings.

This was the season to do that with all their injuries and a loaded 2021 Draft. Deadline hasn't passed so we'll see but I feel they've hung on too long.

vege wrote:I like Isaac and Bamba a lot and I also like Fultz.


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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#11 » by tmorgan » Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:52 am

Definitely not many, but that’s the whole point of bottoming out. Most of our roster is going to get significantly better over time. We’re bad, I get it, but it’s better to be bad with a plan than that pointless nonsense we were doing for the last decade.

I do really wish we’d move Grant, though. I think the scouting report is catching up to him and he’s getting overextended in his role. Peak value was probably a month ago, and it’s likely downhill from here, both in terms of time on his contract and how good he’s likely to look. Good player, obviously, but not a #1 scorer for any kind of decent team.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#12 » by buzzkilloton » Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:01 am

tmorgan wrote:Definitely not many, but that’s the whole point of bottoming out. Most of our roster is going to get significantly better over time. We’re bad, I get it, but it’s better to be bad with a plan than that pointless nonsense we were doing for the last decade.

I do really wish we’d move Grant, though. I think the scouting report is catching up to him and he’s getting overextended in his role. Peak value was probably a month ago, and it’s likely downhill from here, both in terms of time on his contract and how good he’s likely to look. Good player, obviously, but not a #1 scorer for any kind of decent team.


Seems Grant was shooting hot for awhile and as you said teams started covering him. His TS% is all the way down to 565 his lowest since his sixers days. His best role is the role he had on the Nugs as a 3-4th option who can focus on defense.

I agree should of moved him already. His value was at its peak. I imagine we just end up holding him through his contract.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#13 » by tmorgan » Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:09 am

buzzkilloton wrote:
tmorgan wrote:Definitely not many, but that’s the whole point of bottoming out. Most of our roster is going to get significantly better over time. We’re bad, I get it, but it’s better to be bad with a plan than that pointless nonsense we were doing for the last decade.

I do really wish we’d move Grant, though. I think the scouting report is catching up to him and he’s getting overextended in his role. Peak value was probably a month ago, and it’s likely downhill from here, both in terms of time on his contract and how good he’s likely to look. Good player, obviously, but not a #1 scorer for any kind of decent team.


Seems Grant was shooting hot for awhile and as you said teams started covering him. His TS% is all the way down to 565 his lowest since his sixers days. His best role is the role he had on the Nugs as a 3-4th option who can focus on defense.

I agree should of moved him already. His value was at its peak. I imagine we just end up holding him through his contract.


If we hold onto him, so be it, but he needs to be coached into taking less “I’m the man” shots at some point. Bey can shoot. Stewart can shoot, too, apparently. Things need to even out some and Grant needs to regain some efficiency.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#14 » by Pharaoh » Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:42 am

Right now Grant is THE #1 option.

Does he remain that if we land Cade, Mobley or Green?

This season was all about him extending himself and yeah teams started to key in on him - obviously because we were keeping games close and he was the main reason why.

Defences might not be able to zero in on him as much next season when we've added to the line up.

IMO you don't just move a guy cause he's at "peak" value - you add around him and see if you can build something worthwhile.

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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#15 » by buzzkilloton » Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:36 am

Pharaoh wrote:Right now Grant is THE #1 option.

Does he remain that if we land Cade, Mobley or Green?

This season was all about him extending himself and yeah teams started to key in on him - obviously because we were keeping games close and he was the main reason why.

Defences might not be able to zero in on him as much next season when we've added to the line up.

IMO you don't just move a guy cause he's at "peak" value - you add around him and see if you can build something worthwhile.

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Grants 27 years old were about to be drafting a 19year old that may or may not be the franchise player were looking for. By the time the 19year old we draft is ready to be lead us anywhere Grant will be in his 30s and due to rec a much bigger contract. Its likely going to take multiple draft picks to get the player or player's were looking for. Trading Grant while his value is high and his contract is good is for the sure the best move long term.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#16 » by tmorgan » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:15 am

Pharaoh wrote:Right now Grant is THE #1 option.

Does he remain that if we land Cade, Mobley or Green?

This season was all about him extending himself and yeah teams started to key in on him - obviously because we were keeping games close and he was the main reason why.

Defences might not be able to zero in on him as much next season when we've added to the line up.

IMO you don't just move a guy cause he's at "peak" value - you add around him and see if you can build something worthwhile.

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Correct, you don’t move a guy JUST because he’s at peak value. But if you have reason to believe you aren’t going to to be able to utilize that peak to do anything, it’s often best to trade him and continue to build. Heck, who knows, maybe we’re a playoff team with Grant next year (it’s still the East, after all), but I doubt it. Decent chance in year three, but is that worth not cashing him in for a good first or something? Debatable, at the very least.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#17 » by Pharaoh » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:08 pm

buzzkilloton wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Right now Grant is THE #1 option.

Does he remain that if we land Cade, Mobley or Green?

This season was all about him extending himself and yeah teams started to key in on him - obviously because we were keeping games close and he was the main reason why.

Defences might not be able to zero in on him as much next season when we've added to the line up.

IMO you don't just move a guy cause he's at "peak" value - you add around him and see if you can build something worthwhile.

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Grants 27 years old were about to be drafting a 19year old that may or may not be the franchise player were looking for. By the time the 19year old we draft is ready to be lead us anywhere Grant will be in his 30s and due to rec a much bigger contract. Its likely going to take multiple draft picks to get the player or player's were looking for. Trading Grant while his value is high and his contract is good is for the sure the best move long term.
Correction: It's the best move as far as asset management goes.

But players are more than just assets

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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#18 » by Pharaoh » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:10 pm

tmorgan wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Right now Grant is THE #1 option.

Does he remain that if we land Cade, Mobley or Green?

This season was all about him extending himself and yeah teams started to key in on him - obviously because we were keeping games close and he was the main reason why.

Defences might not be able to zero in on him as much next season when we've added to the line up.

IMO you don't just move a guy cause he's at "peak" value - you add around him and see if you can build something worthwhile.

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Correct, you don’t move a guy JUST because he’s at peak value. But if you have reason to believe you aren’t going to to be able to utilize that peak to do anything, it’s often best to trade him and continue to build. Heck, who knows, maybe we’re a playoff team with Grant next year (it’s still the East, after all), but I doubt it. Decent chance in year three, but is that worth not cashing him in for a good first or something? Debatable, at the very least.
What are you attempting to build here?

What pieces do you need to build with?

What year will you be finished building?


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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#19 » by Pharaoh » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:14 pm

Sometimes I swear some of you have never played sport on a real team or even been around them long enough to see how everything works on so many different levels.

Building anything worthwhile takes time, takes the right personalities, takes the right leadership.

Our franchise is a very good example of how ownership and management can do it so badly, with multiple front offices and a multitude of different players.

Given what I've seen thus far I'm willing to allow Weaver and his crew time before I even start to think about trading away a home rum free agent signing who just chose to come here!

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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#20 » by tmorgan » Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:26 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Sometimes I swear some of you have never played sport on a real team or even been around them long enough to see how everything works on so many different levels.

Building anything worthwhile takes time, takes the right personalities, takes the right leadership.

Our franchise is a very good example of how ownership and management can do it so badly, with multiple front offices and a multitude of different players.

Given what I've seen thus far I'm willing to allow Weaver and his crew time before I even start to think about trading away a home rum free agent signing who just chose to come here!

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Condescending talk like this doesn’t lead to productive conversation.

But I will answer your previous post, even though the answers should be pretty clear. I want to build a championship caliber roster, with at least a decent shot at a title. That’s gonna take a few years, minimum, barring a Luka or LeBron level draftee falling in our lap.

I think Grant could be a piece of that roster, yes, but given the timeframe, he’ll get more expensive by then and may or may not be willing to take a lesser role on the team than he has now. He’s pretty clearly not an efficient #1 scorer if you game plan against him, because his shot is good, not great, and his handle is just ok. He’s better on spot ups and cuts, which requires other players drawing attention and passing well. We’re short a lot of pieces right now, and he could definitely look better with better teammates.

Now there are certainly a lot of factors and information I don’t have. If Jerami is well-respected and can help draw other players to Detroit, that has value. If we’d take a huge reputation hit with other players by dealing him, that should also be considered. If the return is good enough, though, it might still be worthwhile, especially if he’s moved to a destination he’s interested in.

It should be considered, and I bet Weaver is doing just that.

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