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How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with?

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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#21 » by Manocad » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:59 pm

tmorgan wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Sometimes I swear some of you have never played sport on a real team or even been around them long enough to see how everything works on so many different levels.

Building anything worthwhile takes time, takes the right personalities, takes the right leadership.

Our franchise is a very good example of how ownership and management can do it so badly, with multiple front offices and a multitude of different players.

Given what I've seen thus far I'm willing to allow Weaver and his crew time before I even start to think about trading away a home rum free agent signing who just chose to come here!

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Condescending talk like this doesn’t lead to productive conversation.

But I will answer your previous post, even though the answers should be pretty clear. I want to build a championship caliber roster, with at least a decent shot at a title. That’s gonna take a few years, minimum, barring a Luka or LeBron level draftee falling in our lap.

I think Grant could be a piece of that roster, yes, but given the timeframe, he’ll get more expensive by then and may or may not be willing to take a lesser role on the team than he has now. He’s pretty clearly not an efficient #1 scorer if you game plan against him, because his shot is good, not great, and his handle is just ok. He’s better on spot ups and cuts, which requires other players drawing attention and passing well. We’re short a lot of pieces right now, and he could definitely look better with better teammates.

Now there are certainly a lot of factors and information I don’t have. If Jerami is well-respected and can help draw other players to Detroit, that has value. If we’d take a huge reputation hit with other players by dealing him, that should also be considered. If the return is good enough, though, it might still be worthwhile, especially if he’s moved to a destination he’s interested in.

It should be considered, and I bet Weaver is doing just that.

Nicely done. Or at least it made a lot of sense to me.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#22 » by ByeByeDre » Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:38 am

I would NOT trade all of the Pistons assets with the following teams:




















Orlando
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#23 » by bstein14 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:16 pm

Orlando probably has better assets now they just committed to the tank this year and got two future firsts from Chicago.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#24 » by Arp590 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:11 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:I would NOT trade all of the Pistons assets with the following teams:

Orlando

How about now? Lol.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#25 » by tmorgan » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:45 pm

Now it’s the Bulls instead. Lavine and Vuc and no picks isn’t going anywhere.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#26 » by ByeByeDre » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:02 am

Arp590 wrote:
ByeByeDre wrote:I would NOT trade all of the Pistons assets with the following teams:

Orlando

How about now? Lol.


Yeah that didn’t age well lol

I miss the days where SVG would pick Rob Hannigan’s pocket in broad daylight.......
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#27 » by buzzkilloton » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:53 am

tmorgan wrote:Now it’s the Bulls instead. Lavine and Vuc and no picks isn’t going anywhere.


Patrick Williams looks like a real nice player esp on the defensive end. White has potential. Their a 1st round exit team at best currently if they get past playin but they still have a roster with way more potential then anything we've had since the going to work days.

Lavines only 25 seems like hes bee around forever. Hes having a huge season. 28ppg almost 44% from 3pt 52% fg 22.2PER 651% TS. He would be worth quite a bit if they decided to trade him which they wont.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#28 » by tmorgan » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:24 am

buzzkilloton wrote:
tmorgan wrote:Now it’s the Bulls instead. Lavine and Vuc and no picks isn’t going anywhere.


Patrick Williams looks like a real nice player esp on the defensive end. White has potential. Their a 1st round exit team at best currently if they get past playin but they still have a roster with way more potential then anything we've had since the going to work days.

Lavines only 25 seems like hes bee around forever. Hes having a huge season. 28ppg almost 44% from 3pt 52% fg 22.2PER 651% TS. He would be worth quite a bit if they decided to trade him which they wont.


I guess I took a different approach to the question. The last place I want to be is a borderline playoff team, unless it’s because there’s more potential yet. Chicago has a fair claim at that, with young pieces, but I’m not convinced they’re going anywhere important with that roster. Fair point, though.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#29 » by DetroitSho » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:29 pm

buzzkilloton wrote:
tmorgan wrote:Now it’s the Bulls instead. Lavine and Vuc and no picks isn’t going anywhere.


Patrick Williams looks like a real nice player esp on the defensive end. White has potential. Their a 1st round exit team at best currently if they get past playin but they still have a roster with way more potential then anything we've had since the going to work days.

Lavines only 25 seems like hes bee around forever. Hes having a huge season. 28ppg almost 44% from 3pt 52% fg 22.2PER 651% TS. He would be worth quite a bit if they decided to trade him which they wont.
What makes Chicago's outlook better than the 2015-16 Pistons?

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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#30 » by foolinc » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:41 pm

DetroitSho wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:
tmorgan wrote:Now it’s the Bulls instead. Lavine and Vuc and no picks isn’t going anywhere.


Patrick Williams looks like a real nice player esp on the defensive end. White has potential. Their a 1st round exit team at best currently if they get past playin but they still have a roster with way more potential then anything we've had since the going to work days.

Lavines only 25 seems like hes bee around forever. Hes having a huge season. 28ppg almost 44% from 3pt 52% fg 22.2PER 651% TS. He would be worth quite a bit if they decided to trade him which they wont.
What makes Chicago's outlook better than the 2015-16 Pistons?

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I'd argue that the current Bulls team has the best two players between in the two in Lavine and Vuc. In addition, Chicago's outlook is better by the fact that we know what happened to the Pistons. The Bulls still have the ability to improve or, more importantly, have the foresight to cut bait.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#31 » by ByeByeDre » Sun Apr 4, 2021 12:35 am

Anyone want to trade assets with the Knicks?
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#32 » by Pharaoh » Sun Apr 4, 2021 1:03 am

No on the Knicks.

They seem trapped between making the playoffs and letting the kids play.

Plus Thibs...

Randle isn't locked up, Rose isn't locked up

Obi, RJ, Quickley & Robinson have shown potential but there's so many question marks around them.

Also no on:

CHI - look a treadmill situation
CLE - move Love & we'll see
DAL - Luka too good but no help
GSW - age & injuries & cap situation
HOU - ownership
IND - ownership
LAC - will always be little brother
MIN - ownership
ORL - what assets?
SAC - no clue
SAS - father time is undefeated
WAS - Beal situation looms





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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#33 » by buzzkilloton » Sun Apr 4, 2021 1:18 am

Pharaoh wrote:No on the Knicks.

They seem trapped between making the playoffs and letting the kids play.

Plus Thibs...

Randle isn't locked up, Rose isn't locked up

Obi, RJ, Quickley & Robinson have shown potential but there's so many question marks around them.

Also no on:

CHI - look a treadmill situation
CLE - move Love & we'll see
DAL - Luka too good but no help
GSW - age & injuries & cap situation
HOU - ownership
IND - ownership
LAC - will always be little brother
MIN - ownership
ORL - what assets?
SAC - no clue
SAS - father time is undefeated
WAS - Beal situation looms





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I was going to reply to you and tell you why you're way off base then I realized you would have to be trolling with this list.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#34 » by Pharaoh » Sun Apr 4, 2021 1:44 am

Not trolling and happy to explain my whys.

Gives us something else to discuss and less emotional investment too since we'd be talking about other teams
buzzkilloton wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:No on the Knicks.

They seem trapped between making the playoffs and letting the kids play.

Plus Thibs...

Randle isn't locked up, Rose isn't locked up

Obi, RJ, Quickley & Robinson have shown potential but there's so many question marks around them.

Also no on:

CHI - look a treadmill situation
CLE - move Love & we'll see
DAL - Luka too good but no help
GSW - age & injuries & cap situation
HOU - ownership
IND - ownership
LAC - will always be little brother
MIN - ownership
ORL - what assets?
SAC - no clue
SAS - father time is undefeated
WAS - Beal situation looms





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I was going to reply to you and tell you why you're way off base then I realized you would have to be trolling with this list.


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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#35 » by buzzkilloton » Sun Apr 4, 2021 2:07 am

Pharaoh wrote:Not trolling and happy to explain my whys.

Gives us something else to discuss and less emotional investment too since we'd be talking about other teams
buzzkilloton wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:No on the Knicks.

They seem trapped between making the playoffs and letting the kids play.

Plus Thibs...

Randle isn't locked up, Rose isn't locked up

Obi, RJ, Quickley & Robinson have shown potential but there's so many question marks around them.

Also no on:

CHI - look a treadmill situation
CLE - move Love & we'll see
DAL - Luka too good but no help
GSW - age & injuries & cap situation
HOU - ownership
IND - ownership
LAC - will always be little brother
MIN - ownership
ORL - what assets?
SAC - no clue
SAS - father time is undefeated
WAS - Beal situation looms





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I was going to reply to you and tell you why you're way off base then I realized you would have to be trolling with this list.


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Dude you listed teams with franchise players that another team would give up loads of stuff for. The Warriors have Curry and they own a unprotected Minnesota pick. The Clippers play in LA and have PG13 and Leonard likely resigns not to mention they have actual title equity this season. Dallas has Luka who is a 3rd year MVP level player. You realize Luka is one of the best assets in the league right?

Really every team on this list you could argue the Pistons are in worse shape then but to actually put LAC,Dal, and GS you have to be trolling. Even when people put teams like Minn and Wash they ignore the fact that players like Beal and Towns are worth a ton on the market still not to mention Minn has Ant Edwards whos worth way more then anything on the Pistons.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#36 » by tmorgan » Sun Apr 4, 2021 3:05 am

I agree on rather be Dallas, GS, or LAC in terms of assets, although the Clips aren’t a team I enjoy at all. But Minny, regardless of Towns’ supposed value, is a disaster. Edwards has talent, but he’s just throwing up a zillion shots and doesn’t look that great. They have a horrible DLo contract, horrible management, and... just no on Minny. Same with Washington, really.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#37 » by Pharaoh » Sun Apr 4, 2021 3:21 am

LAC - Leonard isn't locked up, PG13 isn't all that IMO, their roster has a lot if issues, their offense has a lot of issues and regardless of their owner they'll always be little brother in LA.

DAL - Luka is probably THE asset in the league given he's a MVP candidate on a rookie deal but I'll make the argument he's so good they can't get a legit Robin to his Batman through the Draft and I can't remember the last big time free agent who signed in Dallas.

GSW - age, injuries and iffy roster construction (or development) has taken the shine off them. They face a interesting choice this off-season with or without the Minnesota pick: do they retain Oubre & continue paying huge tax bills?

MIN - beyond the KG years they've never been much of anything for whatever reason and I have serious doubts that's going to change any time soon, especially when their 2 "best" players don't seem to care much about actually winning games.

WAS - Beal might be a big gun slinger but beyond him what do they really have? There's this idea that Beal is a stud yet he's failed to impact winning thus far in his career.

When I made my list I didn't just look at individual players on the roster, not just coaching or location or climate, not just ownership.

I looked at the entire situation.

As stated I'm happy to discuss it.
buzzkilloton wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Not trolling and happy to explain my whys.

Gives us something else to discuss and less emotional investment too since we'd be talking about other teams
buzzkilloton wrote:
I was going to reply to you and tell you why you're way off base then I realized you would have to be trolling with this list.


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Dude you listed teams with franchise players that another team would give up loads of stuff for. The Warriors have Curry and they own a unprotected Minnesota pick. The Clippers play in LA and have PG13 and Leonard likely resigns not to mention they have actual title equity this season. Dallas has Luka who is a 3rd year MVP level player. You realize Luka is one of the best assets in the league right?

Really every team on this list you could argue the Pistons are in worse shape then but to actually put LAC,Dal, and GS you have to be trolling. Even when people put teams like Minn and Wash they ignore the fact that players like Beal and Towns are worth a ton on the market still not to mention Minn has Ant Edwards whos worth way more then anything on the Pistons.


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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#38 » by tmorgan » Sun Apr 4, 2021 4:34 am

I like reading the opinions, Pharoah, but I could turn Luka alone into a better roster and future than we have right now. So I’d trade. GS may have questionable assets beyond Curry and the Minny pick, but they have a great situation in terms of management, owners, etc. certainly a lot better than ours.
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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#39 » by Pharaoh » Sun Apr 4, 2021 4:54 am

Might be able to turn the combo of Cuban, Rick Carlisle & Luka into a long term contender (I assume I/you replace Donnie) but that roster...no thanks!

As for GS & their organisation being "light years ahead" - we've seen their roster the last 1.5 years. Boggles the mind how they've been unable to get 3 capable role players out of the G League in that time frame!

I'd like to think their run isn't completely over but it does seem like it is. A whole lot depends on Klay and the Minnesota pick.

Idk maybe I just prefer to start off at the bottom and work from there?

Plumlee, Stewart
Grant
Bey, Jackson
Diallo
Hayes, Lee

Plus our 2021, the 2nds from CHA & TOR...

The drama I'd have is all those people who want to win now instead of being patient and taking a longer view.

I wouldn't go full Hinkie - too late for that anyway but the likes of Ellington, Okafor & McGruder wouldn't be here.

I'd get 3 or 4 vets who want to transition into coaching after their careers are done, get them on the roster and have them be the mentors & leaders
tmorgan wrote:I like reading the opinions, Pharoah, but I could turn Luka alone into a better roster and future than we have right now. So I’d trade. GS may have questionable assets beyond Curry and the Minny pick, but they have a great situation in terms of management, owners, etc. certainly a lot better than ours.


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Re: How many franchises would you NOT trade all assets with? 

Post#40 » by Snakebites » Sun Apr 4, 2021 4:44 pm

Pharaoh wrote:No on the Knicks.

They seem trapped between making the playoffs and letting the kids play.

Plus Thibs...

Randle isn't locked up, Rose isn't locked up

Obi, RJ, Quickley & Robinson have shown potential but there's so many question marks around them.

Also no on:

CHI - look a treadmill situation
CLE - move Love & we'll see
DAL - Luka too good but no help
GSW - age & injuries & cap situation
HOU - ownership
IND - ownership
LAC - will always be little brother
MIN - ownership
ORL - what assets?
SAC - no clue
SAS - father time is undefeated
WAS - Beal situation looms

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I'll address each of these, from the following assumptions stated in Laimbeer's OP:

1) Only looking at players, draft picks owed, and other roster-related assets
2) Owernship, coaching, and assumed direction of the team not a part of the equation

If you want to talk about which teams we'd trade overall situations with, that's a slightly different discussion, that might sway a few of these.

In that vein:

Chicago- They're treadmill with their current gameplan, but I think they could liquify those assets and easily have more than what we've got to start our rebuild.

Cleveland- Sexton and Garland are hardly perfect young players but for the moment they're better than we have. A lot depends on whether they keep Jarrett Allen and what he costs.

Dallas- I'd trade like everything we've got on our roster for Luka. You can nitpick but there's no substitute for having a great talent like that- not easily. They belong nowhere near this conversation for that reason alone.

GSW- This one is tricky. Steph is still a great player, but he's surrounded by guys who are either not that good or too young to really work with. I think they can flip the Minny pick and some combination of other assets to get some good players moving forward. The Klay contract gives me pause but I think I'd still swap assets with them.

Hou- Better lottery odds than us and a nice stable of picks. Again, ownership doesn't count.

Indiana- Ditto. But they look like a treadmill and I'm not sure how valuable their assets will be in a couple of years. Unlike Houston they don't have a lot of picks This one is close. Sabonis is better than anything we've got, but we're likely looking at a better pick this year.

LAC- City doesn't count. If you wouldn't trade what we've got for what they've got I don't know what to say. Heck, even if we're including the city.

Minny- They're in a tough spot. I don't love KAT and they owe a precious first rounder to GSW. I think where they're at depends on how much you like Edwards. But yeah.

ORL- Has lots of picks. The fact that they have all of those and got them for their players means they never really should have been considered here IMO. Their assets had value and they're treadmilling no longer.

SAC- I actually think you could make the case that they don't have more value than we do. Fox is making big money but I'm not sure he's a big money player, Heild perpetually wants out, Bagley is meh, and they're not looking at a high pick this time unless they get lucky.

SAS- Not sure why more people aren't including this team here. They have limited assets and per the OP you don't get their organization or other stuff.

WAS- Yeah, this one is here based on the fact that they have Russ. I have pause because Beal could generate a king's ransom of picks if they so choose.

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