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2021 Offseason

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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#21 » by Piston Pete » Thu Apr 1, 2021 4:21 pm

What teams will be in the luxury tax next season??

Trading $12 million worth of salary-matching players for Joseph and then cutting Joseph will cut roughly $10 million off the cap.

But for lux tax teams, that would double into $20 million in savings.....

Enough incentive to throw us a 1st rounder plus a prospect, perhaps.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#22 » by DocRI » Thu Apr 1, 2021 4:21 pm

There’s an element to this that Weaver (shockingly!) hasn’t gotten any credit for — it’s not just this offseason. Our cap projections going forward, per BasketballInsiders —

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/

Some of these numbers appear a little off (I’m 99.9% sure Plumlee’s third year is fully guaranteed), and extensions (Diallo, Lee, etc.) and draft picks will certainly cut into the totals. Still, they show us with roughly $20M in space this year (which jives with the OP’s numbers) and then substantially more the next two off seasons. Plus, keep in mind we’ve got Grant’s FBRs, so we can spend all that space in 2023 and the go over the cap to resign him.

So this isn’t just about this summer — we’ll be having this same discussion about free agent targets vs. absorbing bad contracts for assets for the next few years because Weaver has set us up with space for the foreseeable future.


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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#23 » by Spider156 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 4:30 pm

DocRI wrote:There’s an element to this that Weaver (shockingly!) hasn’t gotten any credit for — it’s not just this offseason. Our cap projections going forward, per BasketballInsiders —

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/

Some of these numbers appear a little off (I’m 99.9% sure Plumlee’s third year is fully guaranteed), and extensions (Diallo, Lee, etc.) and draft picks will certainly cut into the totals. Still, they show us with roughly $20M in space this year (which jives with the OP’s numbers) and then substantially more the next two off seasons. Plus, keep in mind we’ve got Grant’s FBRs, so we can spend all that space in 2023 and the go over the cap to resign him.

So this isn’t just about this summer — we’ll be having this same discussion about free agent targets vs. absorbing bad contracts for assets for the next few years because Weaver has set us up with space for the foreseeable future.


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Yeah after the Joseph trade, I haven't counted it but I think we might have 20m in cap space this offseason. What I would do if I wanted to keep tanking is take on a contract for a high pick, extend the young guys, and use the MLE. If weaver is getting guys like Plumlee for the MLE, he's very good. I'd personally like to maximize Grant's time because I believe his next contract is a max. I wish we kept Wood. That was the biggest mistake so far but you can't deny Weaver has been tremendous dealing with the cap space and drafting. I think trading Dre was actually the best move so far in the past two years.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#24 » by Snakebites » Thu Apr 1, 2021 4:37 pm

The only thing I want done with that cap space is using the Cory Joseph contract to obtain draft assets.

That’s it. Full stop.

Beyond that our success or failure in the offseason depends on the draft.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#25 » by Drwho17 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 4:56 pm

At this point I bet Weaver has his eyes on a couple of players. He appears to be a good judge of talent, or Casey is just a super great coach, since all these guys seem to play better once they get here. See Diallo, the rookies/Grant/Plumlee, even Ellington/Wright/Joseph/McGruder don't look like the bums they were before they got here.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#26 » by ByeByeDre » Thu Apr 1, 2021 7:37 pm

DocRI wrote:There’s an element to this that Weaver (shockingly!) hasn’t gotten any credit for — it’s not just this offseason. Our cap projections going forward, per BasketballInsiders —

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/

Some of these numbers appear a little off (I’m 99.9% sure Plumlee’s third year is fully guaranteed), and extensions (Diallo, Lee, etc.) and draft picks will certainly cut into the totals. Still, they show us with roughly $20M in space this year (which jives with the OP’s numbers) and then substantially more the next two off seasons. Plus, keep in mind we’ve got Grant’s FBRs, so we can spend all that space in 2023 and the go over the cap to resign him.

So this isn’t just about this summer — we’ll be having this same discussion about free agent targets vs. absorbing bad contracts for assets for the next few years because Weaver has set us up with space for the foreseeable future.


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Mmmmm Vege’s numbers are more accurate- he has the cap holds and the FRP hold. Throw in CuJo and it’s about 10M
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#27 » by DocRI » Thu Apr 1, 2021 10:42 pm

ByeByeDre wrote:
DocRI wrote:There’s an element to this that Weaver (shockingly!) hasn’t gotten any credit for — it’s not just this offseason. Our cap projections going forward, per BasketballInsiders —

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/

Some of these numbers appear a little off (I’m 99.9% sure Plumlee’s third year is fully guaranteed), and extensions (Diallo, Lee, etc.) and draft picks will certainly cut into the totals. Still, they show us with roughly $20M in space this year (which jives with the OP’s numbers) and then substantially more the next two off seasons. Plus, keep in mind we’ve got Grant’s FBRs, so we can spend all that space in 2023 and the go over the cap to resign him.

So this isn’t just about this summer — we’ll be having this same discussion about free agent targets vs. absorbing bad contracts for assets for the next few years because Weaver has set us up with space for the foreseeable future.


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Mmmmm Vege’s numbers are more accurate- he has the cap holds and the FRP hold. Throw in CuJo and it’s about 10M

I’m sorry, I thought I addressed this but guess I should have spelled it out more clearly — it’s about $20M before factoring in the FRP. That’s right in line with Vege’s numbers, but he subtracted the hold for the #1 pick. And don’t get me wrong, I hope that turns out accurate! Still, the main point of my post stands — we look to have appreciable cap space for the next three off seasons.


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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#28 » by Pharaoh » Fri Apr 2, 2021 9:11 am

Plumlee - Stewart - Okafor
Grant - Sekou(?)
Bey - Jackson - Sirv
2021 - Diallo
Hayes - Lee

Also might add 3 2nds to that group

That's incredibly young!

As stated I don't believe youth wins in the league and there is value to having capable vets on the roster.


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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#29 » by Canadafan » Fri Apr 2, 2021 4:25 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Plumlee - Stewart - Okafor
Grant - Sekou(?)
Bey - Jackson - Sirv
2021 - Diallo
Hayes - Lee

Also might add 3 2nds to that group

That's incredibly young!

As stated I don't believe youth wins in the league and there is value to having capable vets on the roster.


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That looks like the perfect amount of youth to get us a 2022 lottery pick. Grant to warriors would help too for that Minny pick
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#30 » by Supes2023 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 7:09 pm

I think they need to try to make the playoffs next year - which should be feasible,

For next year we are looking at:

Hayes / Lee / F Jackson
Lottery pick (Green or Suggs) / Diallo or Jackson
Bey / Jackson / sirvidas
Grant / 2nd round pick (Timme?) / Sekou
Plumlee / Stewart / Okafor

In order to make the Eastern conference semifinals next year, a veteran point guard or combo guard and a tough, defensive power forward veteran will be needed. Ideally, the vet point guard could be signed with this year’s cap space this summer and the vet power forward could be had at the trade deadline next spring where we trade our 2022 first round pick and salary (McGruder / Sekou / Jackson / other and use any trade exception cash to land a difference maker.

That means Grant could play SF and Bey could come off the bench or Grant could come off the bench.

For some reason, it seems to me that for this team to become a contender, Grant’s best role would be as 6th man in this scenario.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#31 » by bstein14 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 8:10 pm

There was a time where I thought us getting Lonzo Ball would be realistic this summer, but he likely has shot the ball too well for that to happen now.

I still think we take a big jump forward if we get hit all three of these.

#1 Draft the best player available at our pick.
#2 Sign the right FA.
#3 Make one good trade.

If we do those 3 things its a huge move forward in the rebuild. Beyond that we just need the young guys to go to work on improving their skillset.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#32 » by MotownMadness » Fri Apr 2, 2021 8:27 pm

I definitely see them being more competitive next year maybe even enough to threaten a play in area seed. Im expecting big youth growth and chemistry growth to make a leap.

Our team just looks alot more competitive then alot of bad teams which is great cause we are so young. So either they believe in Casey and the chemistry is there or Weaver just really had a great vision for what he was working with.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#33 » by Pharaoh » Sat Apr 3, 2021 10:26 am

Pretty sure a lot of people will be furious if we're a playoff contender next season Nx will blame Weaver for failing to rebuild "properly".

Kind of weird how we can attempt to rebuild on the fly for a decade, never be anything more than cannon fodder even if we made the playoffs but now there's some real hope some people have to find fault with things.

Personally I didn't think we'd look this good this quickly under a new FO. I didn't think Grant and Plumlee would be here. Definitely didn't think Bey, Stewart, Lee or Diallo would be here. And didn't think Blake would be gone, even if his contract is not.

This FO has been in place for less than 12 months!

Pretty impressed all things considered.

At worst I'm far more interested in this franchise than I have been for a long time.

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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#34 » by Manocad » Sat Apr 3, 2021 4:44 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Pretty sure a lot of people will be furious if we're a playoff contender next season Nx will blame Weaver for failing to rebuild "properly".

Kind of weird how we can attempt to rebuild on the fly for a decade, never be anything more than cannon fodder even if we made the playoffs but now there's some real hope some people have to find fault with things.

Personally I didn't think we'd look this good this quickly under a new FO. I didn't think Grant and Plumlee would be here. Definitely didn't think Bey, Stewart, Lee or Diallo would be here. And didn't think Blake would be gone, even if his contract is not.

This FO has been in place for less than 12 months!

Pretty impressed all things considered.

At worst I'm far more interested in this franchise than I have been for a long time.

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Oh, I can certainly think of one poster who would lose his mind if Grant and a collection of 19-24 year olds were able to make the playoffs next year. Because the only way to build a championship team is to have top 5 draft picks for a bare minimum of three years in a row. No other team has ever won a championship without being built in that manner, obviously. I mean, just look at the 76ers, right? :lol:
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#35 » by 440BB » Sat Apr 3, 2021 5:26 pm

With Weaver's eye for talent that's either untapped or misused, combined with Casey's ability to help the players exploit their strengths, a short term transition to a winning team is certainly possible. One more good draft and cherry picking another diamond in the rough and we're on our way. Their athleticism and defense already make the Pistons a more attractive place for a talented free agent or two down the road.

I would never have thought that a year ago. I like retooling so far.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#36 » by tmorgan » Sat Apr 3, 2021 9:28 pm

I do want a shot at Chet or Emoni, though. I imagine Weaver does, too. This should be a two year rebuild, not one.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#37 » by Pharaoh » Sat Apr 3, 2021 10:12 pm

The poster who has me in his sig, the poster that refers to some others as "slurpers" and refuses to praise the FO or coaches for anything?

If someone is that locked in to their own opinion then not much point discussing much of anything with them.
Manocad wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Pretty sure a lot of people will be furious if we're a playoff contender next season Nx will blame Weaver for failing to rebuild "properly".

Kind of weird how we can attempt to rebuild on the fly for a decade, never be anything more than cannon fodder even if we made the playoffs but now there's some real hope some people have to find fault with things.

Personally I didn't think we'd look this good this quickly under a new FO. I didn't think Grant and Plumlee would be here. Definitely didn't think Bey, Stewart, Lee or Diallo would be here. And didn't think Blake would be gone, even if his contract is not.

This FO has been in place for less than 12 months!

Pretty impressed all things considered.

At worst I'm far more interested in this franchise than I have been for a long time.

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Oh, I can certainly think of one poster who would lose his mind if Grant and a collection of 19-24 year olds were able to make the playoffs next year. Because the only way to build a championship team is to have top 5 draft picks for a bare minimum of three years in a row. No other team has ever won a championship without being built in that manner, obviously. I mean, just look at the 76ers, right?


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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#38 » by Manocad » Sat Apr 3, 2021 10:52 pm

tmorgan wrote:I do want a shot at Chet or Emoni, though. I imagine Weaver does, too. This should be a two year rebuild, not one.

For sure, but if the kids all develop quickly and start winning games, what are you gonna do? Try to keep five scrubs on the roster so you can start them instead while keeping Grant, Bey, Stew, Diallo/Jackson and Lee at 15-20 minutes a game to keep the losing going? And there are actually people here who would say, "Yeah, that's exactly what should be done" but it's just not realistic.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#39 » by chrbal » Sat Apr 3, 2021 10:58 pm

Manocad wrote:
tmorgan wrote:I do want a shot at Chet or Emoni, though. I imagine Weaver does, too. This should be a two year rebuild, not one.

For sure, but if the kids all develop quickly and start winning games, what are you gonna do? Try to keep five scrubs on the roster so you can start them instead while keeping Grant, Bey, Stew, Diallo/Jackson and Lee at 15-20 minutes a game to keep the losing going? And there are actually people here who would say, "Yeah, that's exactly what should be done" but it's just not realistic.



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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#40 » by bstein14 » Sat Apr 3, 2021 11:36 pm

We could make the 8th seed and still move forward if Weaver lands the right pick at #15 or #16. He hit solid rotation players with Bey and Stewart so if he does it again in 2022 after we land our stud top 5 pick this year I think we'll be golden.

Most years there is a solid all-star guy picked in the 15 to 20 range, but even on off years there is usually a solid starter picked in that range.

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