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2021 Offseason

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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#41 » by Pharaoh » Sat Apr 3, 2021 11:43 pm

Assuming:

Plumlee - Stewart (Okafor)
Grant - Sekou(?)
Bey - Jackson
2021 - Diallo
Hayes - Lee

2 2nds (TOR & CHA) are guys on the Lee level...

IF that roster contends for the playoffs - even in the East - I'll be amazed!

And that'd be a good thing since we'd be viewed as this rising young team AND we'd have a load of money to add to that group in the 2022 off-season!

I just don't see it. Those kids would have to develop quick af for us to rise to the play in zone.

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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#42 » by edmunder_prc » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:08 am

Ellington will likely be brought back - Casey loves him and veteran grit.

McGruder too probably. He makes $5 million next year I think? I think his contract is odd, maybe its not guaranteed.

Diallo will need a contract, right? Hopefully he doesn't think he is more than a backup, which is clear. Or people in June 2027 will be wondering why those 25 games of Diallo were worth a 2nd, if they remember who he was.

Casey keeps talking about how important DSjr is - which is hilarious but whatever. Coach talk. Does he get the minimum to come back?

Casey likes Frank Jackson and I assume he will be offered a super lowball 2 year contract. Theres your 3rd string SG.

Other moves I'm not sure yet.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#43 » by ducler » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:04 am

Will Casey be fired this offseason or later?
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#44 » by Pharaoh » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:09 am

I've gone back and forth on this one given all the Weaver interviews I've watched.

Trader Troy says all the right things but you never know if that's just GM speak for the media.

Casey was here before Weaver...that usually means the coach gets removed pretty quickly so the new GM can make his own choice...but we are playing the kids and we are losing games so
ducler wrote:Will Casey be fired this offseason or later?


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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#45 » by ducler » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:31 am

Pharaoh wrote:I've gone back and forth on this one given all the Weaver interviews I've watched.

Trader Troy says all the right things but you never know if that's just GM speak for the media.

Casey was here before Weaver...that usually means the coach gets removed pretty quickly so the new GM can make his own choice...but we are playing the kids and we are losing games so
ducler wrote:Will Casey be fired this offseason or later?


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My bet is that he will be fired during next season once we start to win too many games or kids ain't getting enough playing time to Weaver's taste.

Casey, interim coach and then new coach, that makes 3 different coachs on one season and that can only help making the team struggle and maximize our chances at 2022 draft lottery.

Next season will also be Casey's 4th on his 5 years contract so a decision on extension or end of collaboration will have to be made anyways.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#46 » by DetroitSho » Mon Apr 5, 2021 11:54 am

ducler wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:I've gone back and forth on this one given all the Weaver interviews I've watched.

Trader Troy says all the right things but you never know if that's just GM speak for the media.

Casey was here before Weaver...that usually means the coach gets removed pretty quickly so the new GM can make his own choice...but we are playing the kids and we are losing games so
ducler wrote:Will Casey be fired this offseason or later?


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My bet is that he will be fired during next season once we start to win too many games or kids ain't getting enough playing time to Weaver's taste.

Casey, interim coach and then new coach, that makes 3 different coachs on one season and that can only help making the team struggle and maximize our chances at 2022 draft lottery.

Next season will also be Casey's 4th on his 5 years contract so a decision on extension or end of collaboration will have to be made anyways.
In the world of sports where the purpose is to win how is "winning too many games" even close to a reason to fire somebody?

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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#47 » by Manocad » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:27 pm

DetroitSho wrote:
ducler wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:I've gone back and forth on this one given all the Weaver interviews I've watched.

Trader Troy says all the right things but you never know if that's just GM speak for the media.

Casey was here before Weaver...that usually means the coach gets removed pretty quickly so the new GM can make his own choice...but we are playing the kids and we are losing games so

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My bet is that he will be fired during next season once we start to win too many games or kids ain't getting enough playing time to Weaver's taste.

Casey, interim coach and then new coach, that makes 3 different coachs on one season and that can only help making the team struggle and maximize our chances at 2022 draft lottery.

Next season will also be Casey's 4th on his 5 years contract so a decision on extension or end of collaboration will have to be made anyways.
In the world of sports where the purpose is to win how is "winning too many games" even close to a reason to fire somebody?

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I'd like to know where in the world of sports coaches openly defy the GM's wishes to play young players more knowing it will supposedly get them fired. "Sorry boss; don't care what you think but I'm gonna do it my way, even it means I won't get a contract extension or even get fired." Yeah, happens all the time. :lol: Not to mention the idea that Casey will win too many games. The only indication that Casey is trying to win games at the expense of playing the young guys is people here insisting he's trying to win games. Because he sure as hell isn't winning "too many" games.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#48 » by chrbal » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:05 pm

edmunder_prc wrote:Ellington will likely be brought back - Casey loves him and veteran grit.

McGruder too probably. He makes $5 million next year I think? I think his contract is odd, maybe its not guaranteed.

Diallo will need a contract, right? Hopefully he doesn't think he is more than a backup, which is clear. Or people in June 2027 will be wondering why those 25 games of Diallo were worth a 2nd, if they remember who he was.

Casey keeps talking about how important DSjr is - which is hilarious but whatever. Coach talk. Does he get the minimum to come back?

Casey likes Frank Jackson and I assume he will be offered a super lowball 2 year contract. Theres your 3rd string SG.

Other moves I'm not sure yet.


McGruders contract is completely unguaranteed next season, I can’t see him coming back.

Frank has a decent shot at coming back at a small contract. Smith jr is completely coach speak in my opinion. I think he’s proved he’s worth another team taking a chance on him. I just don’t see a spot for him here.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#49 » by LaSheed » Tue Apr 6, 2021 1:52 pm

We can trade the contracts of McGruder and Joseph to team in need of cap space correct?
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#50 » by chrbal » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:09 pm

LaSheed wrote:We can trade the contracts of McGruder and Joseph to team in need of cap space correct?

Yes. Something like during the playoffs by eliminated teams.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#51 » by Drwho17 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:05 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Assuming:

Plumlee - Stewart (Okafor)
Grant - Sekou(?)
Bey - Jackson
2021 - Diallo
Hayes - Lee

2 2nds (TOR & CHA) are guys on the Lee level...

IF that roster contends for the playoffs - even in the East - I'll be amazed!

And that'd be a good thing since we'd be viewed as this rising young team AND we'd have a load of money to add to that group in the 2022 off-season!

I just don't see it. Those kids would have to develop quick af for us to rise to the play in zone.

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If they have the playin they could make it, especially if they get a high end pick next year. I mean really, sometimes I'm worried they might make the playin this year, tons of pathetic teams above them in the east, if they knew how to close out a game they would already be there.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#52 » by DBC10 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:59 pm

Drwho17 wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Assuming:

Plumlee - Stewart (Okafor)
Grant - Sekou(?)
Bey - Jackson
2021 - Diallo
Hayes - Lee

2 2nds (TOR & CHA) are guys on the Lee level...

IF that roster contends for the playoffs - even in the East - I'll be amazed!

And that'd be a good thing since we'd be viewed as this rising young team AND we'd have a load of money to add to that group in the 2022 off-season!

I just don't see it. Those kids would have to develop quick af for us to rise to the play in zone.

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If they have the playin they could make it, especially if they get a high end pick next year. I mean really, sometimes I'm worried they might make the playin this year, tons of pathetic teams above them in the east, if they knew how to close out a game they would already be there.


No we are definitely not good enough for the play-in so I would not worry about that. I think Weaver himself will not let that happen and Casey knows that's not good for his future employment if he pushes for it
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#53 » by Sort » Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:18 pm

I totally get the argument a GM wanting his own coach, but Casey's doing about as well as you can want: the young ones are developing, it's still a competitive team, and the Pistons are losing. Look, Casey isn't winning any X's and O's competition, but I think the Pistons are better off locking up a coach players respect and clearly get better under. You may certainly find a better coach than Casey - I'm not saying he's the ultimate - but I also think it's even more likely to find a coach that's worse. I mean his former players still refer to him as "Coach" with a capital C.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#54 » by Pharaoh » Tue Apr 6, 2021 7:51 pm

I think so many people assume that in order for the kids to get better you just gift them 25-30 minutes per night and they'll figure it out.

To me that's a recipe for disaster.

There's value in old pros, vets that can still get the job done to a certain extent. Those guys who knows the angles, know how to defend the PnR, guys who are unselfish and make the right play instead of looking to get their own stats.

If the kids earn playing time? Cool! But yeah nah they shouldn't be gifted it

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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#55 » by tmorgan » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:25 am

Casey is a good leader and a good man, and definitely a good motivator, but likely not a particularly good coach. The new guy in Toronto, Nurse, seems to be just the opposite — all about X’s and O’s but not great in the locker room. They worked well together for a reason, although Nurse (and Kawhi) did get the job done after Casey left.

Not sure what Casey’s future is here, but yeah, pretty sure he’s the coach at the start of next season.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#56 » by Snakebites » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:23 pm

tmorgan wrote:Casey is a good leader and a good man, and definitely a good motivator, but likely not a particularly good coach. The new guy in Toronto, Nurse, seems to be just the opposite — all about X’s and O’s but not great in the locker room. They worked well together for a reason, although Nurse (and Kawhi) did get the job done after Casey left.

Not sure what Casey’s future is here, but yeah, pretty sure he’s the coach at the start of next season.

I think Nurse is definitely the better coach despite some of the things that are happening in Toronto this year. Sure, there have been issues with some players, but overall I think the shelf life of that core is ending.

That said, I don't think there's any way he wins a championship with the roster Casey had. Still a really good team, but without that extra gear in the playoffs that Kawhi gave them.

I'm not convinced Casey could have won with the team Nurse had either though.

At some point I think we do move on from Casey. I'm not sure when that happens though. Hard to get a read on this front office. I feel like with Stan you always knew where his head was at (not that that was necessarily a good thing). With Stefanski I was never quite sure, but I think that was more because his head often wasn't in the game. Weaver I think plays things closer to his chest until it's time to make a move.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#57 » by Snakebites » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:32 pm

chrbal wrote:
LaSheed wrote:We can trade the contracts of McGruder and Joseph to team in need of cap space correct?

Yes. Something like during the playoffs by eliminated teams.

I feel like there's a grace period after the playoffs too.

Am I wrong about that? It's probably connected to whenever we have to choose whether or not to exercise that option.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#58 » by DBC10 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:43 pm

tmorgan wrote:Casey is a good leader and a good man, and definitely a good motivator, but likely not a particularly good coach. The new guy in Toronto, Nurse, seems to be just the opposite — all about X’s and O’s but not great in the locker room. They worked well together for a reason, although Nurse (and Kawhi) did get the job done after Casey left.

Not sure what Casey’s future is here, but yeah, pretty sure he’s the coach at the start of next season.


At this point this has only been year 2 of his 5 year deal, I don't think he was getting canned this early no matter what anyways. With the way Troy and Casey has been in sync this season I don't see him going anywhere. There's probably a better chance he retires by year 4 than get fired by then. I think he hinted that this may be his last coaching contract anyways
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#59 » by chrbal » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:25 pm

Snakebites wrote:
chrbal wrote:
LaSheed wrote:We can trade the contracts of McGruder and Joseph to team in need of cap space correct?

Yes. Something like during the playoffs by eliminated teams.

I feel like there's a grace period after the playoffs too.

Am I wrong about that? It's probably connected to whenever we have to choose whether or not to exercise that option.


I know there is a time period. Beyond that, no idea.

Vege seemed more aware of the time period.
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Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#60 » by edmunder_prc » Fri Apr 9, 2021 2:44 pm

Snakebites wrote:
tmorgan wrote:Casey is a good leader and a good man, and definitely a good motivator, but likely not a particularly good coach. The new guy in Toronto, Nurse, seems to be just the opposite — all about X’s and O’s but not great in the locker room. They worked well together for a reason, although Nurse (and Kawhi) did get the job done after Casey left.

Not sure what Casey’s future is here, but yeah, pretty sure he’s the coach at the start of next season.

I think Nurse is definitely the better coach despite some of the things that are happening in Toronto this year. Sure, there have been issues with some players, but overall I think the shelf life of that core is ending.

That said, I don't think there's any way he wins a championship with the roster Casey had. Still a really good team, but without that extra gear in the playoffs that Kawhi gave them.

I'm not convinced Casey could have won with the team Nurse had either though.

At some point I think we do move on from Casey. I'm not sure when that happens though. Hard to get a read on this front office. I feel like with Stan you always knew where his head was at (not that that was necessarily a good thing). With Stefanski I was never quite sure, but I think that was more because his head often wasn't in the game. Weaver I think plays things closer to his chest until it's time to make a move.


I agree - I dont think Casey would work well with Kawhi. Kawhi wants better treatment, rest days, etc. I have a strong feeling that wouldnt fly with Casey. Nurse might be more of the Phil Jackson type coach. Xs and Os, manage the talent's egos, ride that to wins.

Casey is a workhorse type coach. Short leash, lots of yelling, veterans at the front of the line, do your job.

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