RealGM

This is a little crazy, and incredibly unlikely, but I felt like I wanted to type this out. This is my ideal Pistons off-season, at least for the major moves.

1) Pistons win the lottery. But I’m not sold on Cade as anything more than the smart #1 pick. I’m willing to make moves, so...
2) Minny finishes 4th in the lottery and thus loses the pick to Golden State. Warriors looking to contend.
3) OKC, or some other team with assets to trade that is desperate for Cade, finishes 2nd in the lottery.
4) Have the team that finishes third in the lottery need a PG and really like Suggs.

Trade the #1 overall pick (Cade) for the #2 overall pick (Mobley) and significant additional assets, whatever stuff Golden State would be interested in. Then trade Jerami Grant and those assets for the 4th pick in a win now move for the Warriors. I really don’t want to take back Wiggins, though — figure something else out. Draft Green.

Short version: win the lottery and turn the pick and Grant into Mobley and Green. With two bigs that can shoot, Bey outside sniping, and (hopefully) development from Hayes, Green could go wild on drives. It’s a dream, after all.

Trading away the #1 pick this year could be a career ending move for a GM. I think there's enough of a gap between Cade and anyone else, that you'd have to get significant additional assets to make that move. In reality, a team like OKC had a stockpile that could trade up for a guy like Cade, perhaps OKC's top 4 pick plus 3 or 4 more first rounders.

I don't think Cade looks to be a guaranteed superstar like a Lebron, Jordan, etc. and even I wouldn't take the risk of trading him away then watching him blow up. Even if he doesn't blow up no one is going to be criticized for taking him, period.

On a painful kinda related side note, that's why I hate when people try to play revisionist history with Darko and criticize Dumars for the pick. For those of use who were there, there was no debate whatsoever--and I mean NONE--that Darko and Lebron were going 1 and 2, with the majority thinking Lebron should go 1 but PLENTY of people suggesting Darko should.

Hey, you guys are entitled to different dreams. I’m confident Cade will be a very good player, and equally confident he’s not a franchise-defining superstar. I see him, at his peak, on the level of a bunch of second tier stars in the league. Guys like Kyrie, PG13, Booker, etc. A player you want to have, of course, but I think Green and Mobley are also likely to be at that level.

tmorgan wrote:Hey, you guys are entitled to different dreams. I’m confident Cade will be a very good player, and equally confident he’s not a franchise-defining superstar. I see him, at his peak, on the level of a bunch of second tier stars in the league. Guys like Kyrie, PG13, Booker, etc. A player you want to have, of course, but I think Green and Mobley are also likely to be at that level.

I definitely think about your Warriors idea and would luv to make a deal with them if they get 4th pick.
Stewart Mobley Bey Hayes and either Cade or Green. Dayammmm. Even Suggs. Tough to make salaries match though by trading them Grant

Manocad wrote:I don't think Cade looks to be a guaranteed superstar like a Lebron, Jordan, etc. and even I wouldn't take the risk of trading him away then watching him blow up. Even if he doesn't blow up no one is going to be criticized for taking him, period.

On a painful kinda related side note, that's why I hate when people try to play revisionist history with Darko and criticize Dumars for the pick. For those of use who were there, there was no debate whatsoever--and I mean NONE--that Darko and Lebron were going 1 and 2, with the majority thinking Lebron should go 1 but PLENTY of people suggesting Darko should.

I feel like Dumars love for Rip (who he traded for) and Tayshaun (who he drafted) prevented him from what insiders called the reaches at #2 (Melo and Wade).

Larry Brown, who has always hated handing rookies playing time, most likely played a part in not picking Melo and going with the project in Darko.

Either way, that pick cost us at least 1 to 3 championships - no way we lose to the Spurs with Melo/Wade/Bosh even in their early years in the league

For me would be win the lottery draft Cade
Trade for Bamba or Miles Turner
Trade for Justinse Winslow or get him for free

Bamba / Stewart
Grant / Bey
Bey / Winslow
Cade / F.Jackson
S.Lee / Cade

For a dream off season... just stop at the "Pistons win the lottery" part.

For me it’s: draft green. If we don’t win the lottery, green is my pick. He looks like the dynamic scorer this teams has lacked for years. Would look great next to Hayes.
Package the 2nds for another 1st if possible. BPA.
Resign the Jackson’s and Diallo.
Get rid of cojo contract.

Run with the young guys and see how they go. I think a full offseason and the addition of another top young talent like green would do wonders.

sfballa13 wrote:

Manocad wrote:I don't think Cade looks to be a guaranteed superstar like a Lebron, Jordan, etc. and even I wouldn't take the risk of trading him away then watching him blow up. Even if he doesn't blow up no one is going to be criticized for taking him, period.

On a painful kinda related side note, that's why I hate when people try to play revisionist history with Darko and criticize Dumars for the pick. For those of use who were there, there was no debate whatsoever--and I mean NONE--that Darko and Lebron were going 1 and 2, with the majority thinking Lebron should go 1 but PLENTY of people suggesting Darko should.

I feel like Dumars love for Rip (who he traded for) and Tayshaun (who he drafted) prevented him from what insiders called the reaches at #2 (Melo and Wade).

Larry Brown, who has always hated handing rookies playing time, most likely played a part in not picking Melo and going with the project in Darko.

Either way, that pick cost us at least 1 to 3 championships - no way we lose to the Spurs with Melo/Wade/Bosh even in their early years in the league

My recollection is that LB wanted Melo. I don’t have a source on that though.

As for the thread, I think my nightmare is us getting the number one pick and somehow not getting Cade.

The idea of getting another top 4 pick for Grant is obviously appealing, but I think that the pick would have to fall lower for that to even be a theoretical possibility.

Snakebites wrote:

sfballa13 wrote:

Manocad wrote:I don't think Cade looks to be a guaranteed superstar like a Lebron, Jordan, etc. and even I wouldn't take the risk of trading him away then watching him blow up. Even if he doesn't blow up no one is going to be criticized for taking him, period.

On a painful kinda related side note, that's why I hate when people try to play revisionist history with Darko and criticize Dumars for the pick. For those of use who were there, there was no debate whatsoever--and I mean NONE--that Darko and Lebron were going 1 and 2, with the majority thinking Lebron should go 1 but PLENTY of people suggesting Darko should.

I feel like Dumars love for Rip (who he traded for) and Tayshaun (who he drafted) prevented him from what insiders called the reaches at #2 (Melo and Wade).

Larry Brown, who has always hated handing rookies playing time, most likely played a part in not picking Melo and going with the project in Darko.

Either way, that pick cost us at least 1 to 3 championships - no way we lose to the Spurs with Melo/Wade/Bosh even in their early years in the league

My recollection is that LB wanted Melo. I don’t have a source on that though.

As for the thread, I think my nightmare is us getting the number one pick and somehow not getting Cade.

The idea of getting another top 4 pick for Grant is obviously appealing, but I think that the pick would have to fall lower for that to even be a theoretical possibility.

Yeah, I don't have much of a recollection of what LB wanted other than he didn't like rookies, period, and that was no secret.

Manocad wrote:

Snakebites wrote:

sfballa13 wrote:
I feel like Dumars love for Rip (who he traded for) and Tayshaun (who he drafted) prevented him from what insiders called the reaches at #2 (Melo and Wade).

Larry Brown, who has always hated handing rookies playing time, most likely played a part in not picking Melo and going with the project in Darko.

Either way, that pick cost us at least 1 to 3 championships - no way we lose to the Spurs with Melo/Wade/Bosh even in their early years in the league

My recollection is that LB wanted Melo. I don’t have a source on that though.

As for the thread, I think my nightmare is us getting the number one pick and somehow not getting Cade.

The idea of getting another top 4 pick for Grant is obviously appealing, but I think that the pick would have to fall lower for that to even be a theoretical possibility.

Yeah, I don't have much of a recollection of what LB wanted other than he didn't like rookies, period, and that was no secret.

Definitely true, and also means it would make sense that he’d be particularly against drafting a 17 year old European who never played American hoops before.

Does make for an interesting what if though. Had we drafted Melo, I wonder what kind of PT he’d gotten as a rookie.

Stay in the top 4, obviously you want the top pick. Draft rookie of the year wing. Let Smith jr, Joseph, and McGruder walk. Get another project big and have him and Cook fight for a spot, resign Diallo, Frank Jackson, and Lee. Sekou and Killian improve quite a bit. Sign Ellington to a smaller role. Take on at least one contract to add draft assets even if he becomes dead money. Last spots to a veteran fill in point guard (think McGruders role but as a point guard) and make Deividas make the team next season.

If any team jumps into the top 4, I’d want San Antonio to be it.

3 2nds - try to get into the latter part of the 1st round. If not draft another center and a shooter at the wing for the two way contracts. Then a euro stash.

Ride out the season with this group, not outright tanking but not good enough to reach the play in.

If necessary, 1st person to go is jahlil, then Ellington, followed by random veteran point guard.

Snakebites wrote:

Manocad wrote:

Snakebites wrote:My recollection is that LB wanted Melo. I don’t have a source on that though.

As for the thread, I think my nightmare is us getting the number one pick and somehow not getting Cade.

The idea of getting another top 4 pick for Grant is obviously appealing, but I think that the pick would have to fall lower for that to even be a theoretical possibility.

Yeah, I don't have much of a recollection of what LB wanted other than he didn't like rookies, period, and that was no secret.

Definitely true, and also means it would make sense that he’d be particularly against drafting a 17 year old European who never played American hoops before.

Does make for an interesting what if though. Had we drafted Melo, I wonder what kind of PT he’d gotten as a rookie.

Gotta believe he could have beat out Darvin Ham and Tremaine Fowlkes for PT, that's for sure

sfballa13 wrote:

Manocad wrote:I don't think Cade looks to be a guaranteed superstar like a Lebron, Jordan, etc. and even I wouldn't take the risk of trading him away then watching him blow up. Even if he doesn't blow up no one is going to be criticized for taking him, period.

On a painful kinda related side note, that's why I hate when people try to play revisionist history with Darko and criticize Dumars for the pick. For those of use who were there, there was no debate whatsoever--and I mean NONE--that Darko and Lebron were going 1 and 2, with the majority thinking Lebron should go 1 but PLENTY of people suggesting Darko should.

I feel like Dumars love for Rip (who he traded for) and Tayshaun (who he drafted) prevented him from what insiders called the reaches at #2 (Melo and Wade).

Larry Brown, who has always hated handing rookies playing time, most likely played a part in not picking Melo and going with the project in Darko.

Either way, that pick cost us at least 1 to 3 championships - no way we lose to the Spurs with Melo/Wade/Bosh even in their early years in the league

I don't think this is true, LB wanted Carmelo, LB has since said when he was hired he was told they were taking Carmelo. I don't think the Pistons drafted Darko for need really, they just thought he had the most upside, Pistons C at that time was Eldon Campbell who was brought in after they picked Darko, Okur was the backup, then they picked up Rasheed that year (maybe cause they knew Darko was a bust already though). I also don't think you can say about the championships, with Carmelo I'm not sure if they get Rasheed and as we've seen Carmelo hasn't won anything on his own.

Snakebites wrote:

sfballa13 wrote:

Manocad wrote:I don't think Cade looks to be a guaranteed superstar like a Lebron, Jordan, etc. and even I wouldn't take the risk of trading him away then watching him blow up. Even if he doesn't blow up no one is going to be criticized for taking him, period.

On a painful kinda related side note, that's why I hate when people try to play revisionist history with Darko and criticize Dumars for the pick. For those of use who were there, there was no debate whatsoever--and I mean NONE--that Darko and Lebron were going 1 and 2, with the majority thinking Lebron should go 1 but PLENTY of people suggesting Darko should.

I feel like Dumars love for Rip (who he traded for) and Tayshaun (who he drafted) prevented him from what insiders called the reaches at #2 (Melo and Wade).

Larry Brown, who has always hated handing rookies playing time, most likely played a part in not picking Melo and going with the project in Darko.

Either way, that pick cost us at least 1 to 3 championships - no way we lose to the Spurs with Melo/Wade/Bosh even in their early years in the league

My recollection is that LB wanted Melo. I don’t have a source on that though.

As for the thread, I think my nightmare is us getting the number one pick and somehow not getting Cade.

The idea of getting another top 4 pick for Grant is obviously appealing, but I think that the pick would have to fall lower for that to even be a theoretical possibility.

I remember only a few voices that were a distinct minority saying anything close to Darko going as #1. LeBron had been entrenched as the #1 overall pick of that draft for like 2 years leading up to draft day. There was just too much actual evidence of fantastic play from him against actual NBA all stars in offseason workouts, etc for there to be anything even resembling a discussion on that front.

Now all that being said, Darko was definitely in the discussion for #2. A man of his size who could shoot and handle the ball as well as he did at his age was practically unheard of. Add onto that that the Pistons were still fairly loaded with veterans so we could afford to have more of a project player and not be hurt as much from a competition standpoint. And given the stakes Darko was going to always tell teams exactly what they wanted to hear as far as being motivated and excited to play. So I don't really fault the Pistons a lot for the selection from that standpoint.

Where I do fault the Pistons though is Dumars thinking that Larry Brown was going to do the necessary work to develop this project into his full potential. Larry never did that anywhere he went. He was just focused on himself / trying to win rings at all costs. It was just such a terrible match from a development standpoint.

It's true that Darko eventually revealed that the NBA wasn't for him and that he'd rather be a farmer (good for him!). But I still can't help but wonder if he would have thought differently if given the right support at the start of his career. We'll never know that unfortunately.

Larry brown


" Syracuse.com:

“At the time I got the job, they told me they were gonna draft Carmelo,” Brown said.

Despite a 50-32 record in 2002, Detroit had the No. 2 pick in the 2003 NBA Draft after acquiring it in a trade that sent forward Otis Thorpe to the Memphis Grizzlies in 1997.

“What I had understood, we were going to draft Carmelo and then all of a sudden they decided on Darko,” Brown said.

Brown says he wanted to bring in one of the other top prospects to play against Milicic, but it never happened.

“All I asked is why don’t you bring in Carmelo, or (Dwyane) Wade or (Chris) Bosh and let them workout against Darko?” Brown said. “Any smart agent is gonna say, ‘No, I’m not going to let my guy workout against somebody else.’

“We brought Darko in twice and he couldn’t go through a workout with me without getting totally exhausted,” Brown said."

Manocad wrote:I don't think Cade looks to be a guaranteed superstar like a Lebron, Jordan, etc. and even I wouldn't take the risk of trading him away then watching him blow up. Even if he doesn't blow up no one is going to be criticized for taking him, period.

On a painful kinda related side note, that's why I hate when people try to play revisionist history with Darko and criticize Dumars for the pick. For those of use who were there, there was no debate whatsoever--and I mean NONE--that Darko and Lebron were going 1 and 2, with the majority thinking Lebron should go 1 but PLENTY of people suggesting Darko should.

Honestly, I don't remember that at all. I remember Dumars falling in love with Darko, and then others subsequently following his cue (because Joe was a widely respected GM at that time). Once the Pistons (Grizz) drew the #2 spot at the lottery, there was a month of hype around Darko leading up to the draft. But if any other team had drawn #2, we wouldn't have heard much about Darko at all. Not in that spot. And certainly not at #1. Lebron & Carmelo were the guys. I could be wrong, but that's how I remember it.

.

Drwho17 wrote:

sfballa13 wrote:
I feel like Dumars love for Rip (who he traded for) and Tayshaun (who he drafted) prevented him from what insiders called the reaches at #2 (Melo and Wade).

Larry Brown, who has always hated handing rookies playing time, most likely played a part in not picking Melo and going with the project in Darko.

Either way, that pick cost us at least 1 to 3 championships - no way we lose to the Spurs with Melo/Wade/Bosh even in their early years in the league

I don't think this is true, LB wanted Carmelo, LB has since said when he was hired he was told they were taking Carmelo. I don't think the Pistons drafted Darko for need really, they just thought he had the most upside, Pistons C at that time was Eldon Campbell who was brought in after they picked Darko, Okur was the backup, then they picked up Rasheed that year (maybe cause they knew Darko was a bust already though). I also don't think you can say about the championships, with Carmelo I'm not sure if they get Rasheed and as we've seen Carmelo hasn't won anything on his own.

They definitely didn't know Darko was a bust when they got Sheed. They were in a championship run, Sheed was an All Star-level player with issues who got picked up for a song, and more/better post offense was what the Pistons could use more than anything. Plus he could run the floor and shoot the 3. That wasn't so much a strategic trade as a no-brainer. I remember that trade just like when the Red Wings got Chelios and Wendel Clark on the same day, like "No EFFING way!!!" In a good way, of course.

flow wrote:

Manocad wrote:I don't think Cade looks to be a guaranteed superstar like a Lebron, Jordan, etc. and even I wouldn't take the risk of trading him away then watching him blow up. Even if he doesn't blow up no one is going to be criticized for taking him, period.

On a painful kinda related side note, that's why I hate when people try to play revisionist history with Darko and criticize Dumars for the pick. For those of use who were there, there was no debate whatsoever--and I mean NONE--that Darko and Lebron were going 1 and 2, with the majority thinking Lebron should go 1 but PLENTY of people suggesting Darko should.

Honestly, I don't remember that at all. I remember Dumars falling in love with Darko, and then others subsequently following his cue (because Joe was a widely respected GM at that time). Once the Pistons (Grizz) drew the #2 spot at the lottery, there was a month of hype around Darko leading up to the draft. But if any other team had drawn #2, we wouldn't have heard much about Darko at all. Not in that spot. And certainly not at #1. Lebron & Carmelo were the guys. I could be wrong, but that's how I remember it.

.

Go look up the 2003 mock drafts and see what you find. Especially the ones with some analysis.