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Back in 2013, Dumars was deciding between Cheeks and Nate McMillan to replace Lawrence Frank as HC. It was literally a two horse race. Dumars ultimately chose Cheeks. Cheeks was fired midway through the season. Dumars was fired after the season. Then the SVG era began.

What if Dumars had hired McMillan instead of Cheeks? How differently would the ensuing years have been for the team?


Even back in 2013, it was clear to me that McMillan was the superior coach. The team wouldn't have set the world on fire with him that year, but it would definitely have been more competitive than it was under Cheeks. McMillan would not have been fired after one year. Thus, Dumars wouldn't have been fired that year, either. Thus, no SVG. And on it goes.....

Just off-season daydream stuff, but interesting to think about. It truly was a Sliding Doors situation because Dumars made public that it would be either Cheeks or McMillan.

13-14 season and you pick that? We’d be slightly better, really slightly. We still have a mess of a roster and no trae young type.

What if that offseason we passed on Smith and sign Andre Iguodala. I want to say there were rumors of our interest. He didn’t have some insane career, but maybe his drive and the presence of Billups drives the likes of KCP (who I think benefits the most), Drummond and Monroe.

If nothing else, no Josh Smith.

That's another aspect of it. Would Smith have played the same way with McMillan as coach? As loosely and selfishly? Different voice, different structure, different system.

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chrbal wrote:13-14 season and you pick that? We’d be slightly better, really slightly. We still have a mess of a roster and no trae young type.

What if that offseason we passed on Smith and sign Andre Iguodala. I want to say there were rumors of our interest. He didn’t have some insane career, but maybe his drive and the presence of Billups drives the likes of KCP (who I think benefits the most), Drummond and Monroe.

If nothing else, no Josh Smith.

Iguodala was our #1 target. He chose GS over us, right decision. I without a doubt believe THAT alone would have entirely changed that era of Pistons basketball. He would've been amazing for Drummond and Brandon Jennings.

That's why I get sick of the "he doesn't fit our timeline" posts from people thinking you need fifteen 20-year olds on a team and turn their nose up at adding late 20 somethings that would dramatically improve the young core and culture of the team.

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I honestly don't think anything would have significantly changed if we hired McMillian. The issues with team was far deeper than just needing a better head coach.

flow wrote:That's another aspect of it. Would Smith have played the same way with McMillan as coach? As loosely and selfishly? Different voice, different structure, different system.

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Makes you wonder. Like it’s kind of crazy to think how honestly better off we’d have been had we even just struck out with the big name free agents from that offseason. I want to say Jennings was even a sign and trade.

DetroitSho wrote:Iguodala was our #1 target. He chose GS over us, right decision. I without a doubt believe THAT alone would have entirely changed that era of Pistons basketball. He would've been amazing for Drummond and Brandon Jennings.

That's why I get sick of the "he doesn't fit our timeline" posts from people thinking you need fifteen 20-year olds on a team and turn their nose up at adding late 20 somethings that would dramatically improve the young core and culture of the team.

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I really do get sick of that as the argument over and over again on the trade board for why we should deal Grant for just about anything.

foolinc wrote:I honestly don't think anything would have significantly changed if we hired McMillian. The issues with team was far deeper than just needing a better head coach.

Bingo. I envision a different version of painful, like getting burned instead of stabbed.

foolinc wrote:I honestly don't think anything would have significantly changed if we hired McMillian. The issues with team was far deeper than just needing a better head coach.

I agree that the 2013-14 team wouldn't have been dramatically better. But it would have been better enough that McMillan would not have been fired when Cheeks was. And so everything that followed from Cheeks' firing would have been delayed, or not happened at all. The dominos would not have fallen the same way.

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Manocad wrote:

foolinc wrote:I honestly don't think anything would have significantly changed if we hired McMillian. The issues with team was far deeper than just needing a better head coach.

Bingo. I envision a different version of painful, like getting burned instead of stabbed.

+1. I really don't think the problem with that team is just one coach or one less headcase (Smith) and we have a completely different trajectory. We still would've had a logjam at center with Monroe and Drummond, and both of them were never going to be true stars in this league.

We just had no stars and or a potential guy that had a great mentality and focus to basketball. Only mental midgets

In retrospect, obviously we didn't have the talent to really compete, but we didn't capitalize on the assets we had. Monroe had decent trade value and we let him walk. Dre made a friggin all star team and we just held him to his value went to zero. We lost KCP for nothing. Josh Smith turned into an anchor for years. Jennings got hurt, so nothing you can really do about that. The only one we managed to get value out of was kyle singler.

So lets all be thankful for Weaver. Obviously the job isn't done, but he cleared house and definitely restocked the shelves with some young talent.

Billl wrote:In retrospect, obviously we didn't have the talent to really compete, but we didn't capitalize on the assets we had. Monroe had decent trade value and we let him walk. Dre made a friggin all star team and we just held him to his value went to zero. We lost KCP for nothing. Josh Smith turned into an anchor for years. Jennings got hurt, so nothing you can really do about that. The only one we managed to get value out of was kyle singler.

So lets all be thankful for Weaver. Obviously the job isn't done, but he cleared house and definitely restocked the shelves with some young talent.

Letting people walk and holding on to guys like this has really killed any hope of a fast recovery and I'd argue that's what changed the trajectory of the team. Not included in that list were guys like SJ and Ellenson too. Just held on to them for too long before the league caught notice that they weren't all that good

chrbal wrote:

flow wrote:That's another aspect of it. Would Smith have played the same way with McMillan as coach? As loosely and selfishly? Different voice, different structure, different system.

.

Makes you wonder. Like it’s kind of crazy to think how honestly better off we’d have been had we even just struck out with the big name free agents from that offseason. I want to say Jennings was even a sign and trade.

DetroitSho wrote:Iguodala was our #1 target. He chose GS over us, right decision. I without a doubt believe THAT alone would have entirely changed that era of Pistons basketball. He would've been amazing for Drummond and Brandon Jennings.

That's why I get sick of the "he doesn't fit our timeline" posts from people thinking you need fifteen 20-year olds on a team and turn their nose up at adding late 20 somethings that would dramatically improve the young core and culture of the team.

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I really do get sick of that as the argument over and over again on the trade board for why we should deal Grant for just about anything.

Yeah it needs to end

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McMillain is a good coach but nobody could have made that 2013 roster work. It was flawed at its core.

DBC10 wrote:
Letting people walk and holding on to guys like this has really killed any hope of a fast recovery and I'd argue that's what changed the trajectory of the team. Not included in that list were guys like SJ and Ellenson too. Just held on to them for too long before the league caught notice that they weren't all that good

Somewhere, Sekou is not working on his game.

In the meantime, Presti has pulled it off again - he managed to get first rounders both times in Horford trades. Brilliant. And he’s told Kemba to rent and not buy. I’m excited to see how he consolidates all of these picks - his rebuild is like no other……

ByeByeDre wrote:

DBC10 wrote:
Letting people walk and holding on to guys like this has really killed any hope of a fast recovery and I'd argue that's what changed the trajectory of the team. Not included in that list were guys like SJ and Ellenson too. Just held on to them for too long before the league caught notice that they weren't all that good

Somewhere, Sekou is not working on his game.

In the meantime, Presti has pulled it off again - he managed to get first rounders both times in Horford trades. Brilliant. And he’s told Kemba to rent and not buy. I’m excited to see how he consolidates all of these picks - his rebuild is like no other……

Where does he keep his NBA Championship trophies?

Oh yeah--that's right. To win the championship you have to advance past the first round.

ByeByeDre wrote:

DBC10 wrote:
Letting people walk and holding on to guys like this has really killed any hope of a fast recovery and I'd argue that's what changed the trajectory of the team. Not included in that list were guys like SJ and Ellenson too. Just held on to them for too long before the league caught notice that they weren't all that good

Somewhere, Sekou is not working on his game.

In the meantime, Presti has pulled it off again - he managed to get first rounders both times in Horford trades. Brilliant. And he’s told Kemba to rent and not buy. I’m excited to see how he consolidates all of these picks - his rebuild is like no other……

It’s cool and all, borderline obsessive, that they’ve collected all those picks. It all boils down to what you do with all those picks. If he can outdo hinkie in terms of landing talent, and avoiding picking guys like Noel and Okafor in the lottery, I’ll be mildly impressed. If he can actually pull off a trade or two where he adds actual talent, up and comers as well as current, I’ll be mildly impressed. But if all he’s going to keep doing is stockpiling picks, it just seems like a weird 2K franchise experiment

chrbal wrote:

ByeByeDre wrote:

DBC10 wrote:
Letting people walk and holding on to guys like this has really killed any hope of a fast recovery and I'd argue that's what changed the trajectory of the team. Not included in that list were guys like SJ and Ellenson too. Just held on to them for too long before the league caught notice that they weren't all that good

Somewhere, Sekou is not working on his game.

In the meantime, Presti has pulled it off again - he managed to get first rounders both times in Horford trades. Brilliant. And he’s told Kemba to rent and not buy. I’m excited to see how he consolidates all of these picks - his rebuild is like no other……

It’s cool and all, borderline obsessive, that they’ve collected all those picks. It all boils down to what you do with all those picks. If he can outdo hinkie in terms of landing talent, and avoiding picking guys like Noel and Okafor in the lottery, I’ll be mildly impressed. If he can actually pull off a trade or two where he adds actual talent, up and comers as well as current, I’ll be mildly impressed. But if all he’s going to keep doing is stockpiling picks, it just seems like a weird 2K franchise experiment

Uhhhh he had freaking Durant, Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka. There's a very slim chance that level of talent will ever be collected through the draft ever again. We've seen Presti and what he was able to accomplish at his ceiling. He'll rebuild that team and they'll be good. But nothing to rub one out to like apparently some do. At this point I trust Weaver just as much as Presti.

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DetroitSho wrote:

chrbal wrote:

ByeByeDre wrote:
Somewhere, Sekou is not working on his game.

In the meantime, Presti has pulled it off again - he managed to get first rounders both times in Horford trades. Brilliant. And he’s told Kemba to rent and not buy. I’m excited to see how he consolidates all of these picks - his rebuild is like no other……

It’s cool and all, borderline obsessive, that they’ve collected all those picks. It all boils down to what you do with all those picks. If he can outdo hinkie in terms of landing talent, and avoiding picking guys like Noel and Okafor in the lottery, I’ll be mildly impressed. If he can actually pull off a trade or two where he adds actual talent, up and comers as well as current, I’ll be mildly impressed. But if all he’s going to keep doing is stockpiling picks, it just seems like a weird 2K franchise experiment

Uhhhh he had freaking Durant, Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka. There's a very slim chance that level of talent will ever be collected through the draft ever again. We've seen Presti and what he was able to accomplish at his ceiling. He'll rebuild that team and they'll be good. But nothing to rub one out to like apparently some do. At this point I trust Weaver just as much as Presti.

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Yes. I’m saying post him collecting all the draft picks. I realize that comes off as what have you done for me lately.

chrbal wrote:

DetroitSho wrote:

chrbal wrote:
It’s cool and all, borderline obsessive, that they’ve collected all those picks. It all boils down to what you do with all those picks. If he can outdo hinkie in terms of landing talent, and avoiding picking guys like Noel and Okafor in the lottery, I’ll be mildly impressed. If he can actually pull off a trade or two where he adds actual talent, up and comers as well as current, I’ll be mildly impressed. But if all he’s going to keep doing is stockpiling picks, it just seems like a weird 2K franchise experiment

Uhhhh he had freaking Durant, Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka. There's a very slim chance that level of talent will ever be collected through the draft ever again. We've seen Presti and what he was able to accomplish at his ceiling. He'll rebuild that team and they'll be good. But nothing to rub one out to like apparently some do. At this point I trust Weaver just as much as Presti.

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Yes. I’m saying post him collecting all the draft picks. I realize that comes off as what have you done for me lately.

Detroit has a 14 percent chance of anyone wanting what they have over the Thunder. Stay tuned.

chrbal wrote:

DetroitSho wrote:

chrbal wrote:
It’s cool and all, borderline obsessive, that they’ve collected all those picks. It all boils down to what you do with all those picks. If he can outdo hinkie in terms of landing talent, and avoiding picking guys like Noel and Okafor in the lottery, I’ll be mildly impressed. If he can actually pull off a trade or two where he adds actual talent, up and comers as well as current, I’ll be mildly impressed. But if all he’s going to keep doing is stockpiling picks, it just seems like a weird 2K franchise experiment

Uhhhh he had freaking Durant, Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka. There's a very slim chance that level of talent will ever be collected through the draft ever again. We've seen Presti and what he was able to accomplish at his ceiling. He'll rebuild that team and they'll be good. But nothing to rub one out to like apparently some do. At this point I trust Weaver just as much as Presti.

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Yes. I’m saying post him collecting all the draft picks. I realize that comes off as what have you done for me lately.

Oh no, I wasn't disagreeing with you. Collecting draft picks is cute and all but we've seen it in different iterations in Philly and Boston. Yawwwwnnnn....

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