RealGM

Can we identify a RealGM consensus?

With Diallo:

C - Isaiah Stewart / Kelly Olynyk / Luka Garza
PF - Jerami Grant / Kelly Olynyk / Trey Lyles
SF - Saddiq Bey / Josh Jackson / Isaiah Livers
PG - Cade Cunningham / Corey Joseph / Killian Hayes / Saben Lee
SG - Hamidou Diallo / Frank Jackson / Rodney McGruder
6th - PF/C Kelly Olynyk
7th - PG Corey Joseph
8th - SG Frank Jackson
9th - SF Josh Jackson
10th - PG Killian Hayes
11th - PF/C Trey Lyles
12th - SG/SF Rodney McGruder
13th - C Luka Garza
14th - PG Saben Lee (G League)
15th - PF/SF Isaiah Livers (G League)

Without Diallo:

C - Stewart / Olynyk / Garza
PF - Grant / Olynyk / Lyles
SF - Bey / Jackson / Livers
PG - Joseph / Hayes / Lee
SG - Cunningham / Jackson / McGruder

Personally I prefer Saben Lee getting NBA minutes over Killian Hayes at this point, and I think the G League could actually really help Hayes develop his offense to regain confidence.... it's probably what he needs... but I am very doubtful we'll be seeing Killian in the G League any time soon so I'm moving on. Lee should dominate G League if given the opportunity, maybe he'll develop his 3-point shooting there.

Hayes won't be in the g-league.

Preferred starting lineup is the one that Casey has already eluded to;

Hayes
Cade
Bey
Grant
Stewart

This is hard. I don’t have a preferred second guard besides Cade. He’s not on the roster. I look at our options and they just feel…icky.

And really, Stew, Bey, Grant up front with Cade in back should be uncontroversial.

KO might be tempting offensively but our rebounding and defense would just be too awful.

Snakebites wrote:This is hard. I don’t have a preferred second guard besides Cade. He’s not on the roster. I look at our options and they just feel…icky.

And really, Stew, Bey, Grant up front with Cade in back should be uncontroversial.

KO might be tempting offensively but our rebounding and defense would just be too awful.

I would only consider starting KO if Hayes starts with Cade.

zeebneeb wrote:Hayes won't be in the g-league.

Preferred starting lineup is the one that Casey has already eluded to;

Hayes
Cade
Bey
Grant
Stewart

Yeah, I don't see it as a possibility either.

zeebneeb wrote:Hayes won't be in the g-league.

he really should though. pretty much all of his advanced stats were worse than Sirvydis' and his efficiency stats were literally dead last in the league.

it's kind of baffling how much they're putting on his plate when he's very obviously overwhelmed (i.e. nowhere near capable of the role he has).

Either Killian / Cade or Cory / Cade. The first if killian proves some things to them in camp, the second if killian doesn’t look great in training camp and preaseason (and Cade doesn’t vastly improve as a primary ball handler)

whitehops wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:Hayes won't be in the g-league.

he really should though. pretty much all of his advanced stats were worse than Sirvydis' and his efficiency stats were literally dead last in the league.

it's kind of baffling how much they're putting on his plate when he's very obviously overwhelmed (i.e. nowhere near capable of the role he has).

How many games did Hayes play with Grant? I have no idea but if we're gonna be looking at "advanced" stats to project any line up then shouldn't we look at the ones that are actually relevant?



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Pharaoh wrote:How many games did Hayes play with Grant? I have no idea but if we're gonna be looking at "advanced" stats to project any line up then shouldn't we look at the ones that are actually relevant?

his splits throughout the season (before his injury and after) are atrocious. not sure why grant would impact his play so much regardless.

My starting line up even if we retain Diallo:

PG - Hayes. Take full advantage of his court vision and passing in a line up with 3 legit scoring options and Stewart.

Those guys should open up the floor for him and give him some room to work offensively which will build his confidence in every aspect.

It allows Cade to focus on being the #1 option offensively without being saddled with getting other dudes the ball in their spots being mindful of the pace or flow of the game or who needs touches every time down the floor.

Also allows Cade to take the less threatening guard defensively.

SG: Cade. Dude might have all the potential in the world but ideally we make his transition as easy as possible on both ends of the floor and I think pairing him with Hayes does that.

I'd still use him as the primary ball handler down the stretch of close games though as that's the role we're hoping he grows into anyway.

SF: Bey. Obvious reason why but the hope is that he starts being a lot more than a 3 point shooter.

PF: Grant. Again obvious but the hope is that with Cade and Bey out there the defence can't key in on him like they did last season. Should be much better for the lessons learnt last season and his time with Team USA

Ce: Stewart. Keep the energy up, keep working on that outside shot and give it all you got for as long as you can and then we'll bring in KO.

First dudes off the bench depends on the opponent but most likely:

KO - brings shooting, toughness and veteran knowledge on both ends

FJ - puts the ball in Cade's hands and replaces Hayes with a legit shooter/scorer that should space the floor and give Cade room to work. Defence shouldn't suffer too much as KO is a good communicator on that end.

Diallo (if here) or JJ - move Cade to the 3 and get a slasher on the floor.

Lyles - more shooting but bringing him would mean Grant is now the #1 option on the floor with KO, Lyles, Diallo & FJ. Gives Diallo PG duties but in that line up Grant is the go to guy.

So there's 9 with clear roles,

I'm at the point where I'd be looking to trade Sekou & JJ to a team for a expiring 3/4

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whitehops wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:How many games did Hayes play with Grant? I have no idea but if we're gonna be looking at "advanced" stats to project any line up then shouldn't we look at the ones that are actually relevant?

his splits throughout the season (before his injury and after) are atrocious. not sure why grant would impact his play so much regardless.

Cause if you're looking at line ups surely it matters who Hayes was playing with while he put up those atrocious stats.

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To be clear, I’m 90 percent sure we’ll be starting Hayes, Cade, Bey, Grant, Isaiah.

And it’ll be really bad. Especially at first. Hopefully it’ll become less so.

Snakebites wrote:To be clear, I’m 90 percent sure we’ll be starting Hayes, Cade, Bey, Grant, Isaiah.

And it’ll be really bad. Especially at first. Hopefully it’ll become less so.

i'm 100% with you that there's no ideal guard on the roster to put next to cade and that it'll likely be hayes starting.

i just really hope they have cade initiate the offense the majority of the time, even the "50/50" stuff in summer league was tough to watch. and as much as cade needs improve his skill set (mainly dribbling) to be a primary ball handler, he's still way more adept at it than hayes and his ceiling is way higher.

The advantage of playing Killian more minutes then the other non Cade guards is we lose more games. Hes a secret tanking weapon. The disadvantage of course will be hes useless off ball and dribbles alot.

Snakebites wrote:To be clear, I’m 90 percent sure we’ll be starting Hayes, Cade, Bey, Grant, Isaiah.

And it’ll be really bad. Especially at first. Hopefully it’ll become less so.

I'm willing to take you up on that bet if your willing. Now this is a blind estimation of course as no one has seen the team play together yet, but if I'm guessing, and calculating in growth of second year players, starting the year fresh with no Blakes, and Roses, new additions, the first 20 games I'm willing to bet the team goes 8-12+(+ being an outside shot at .500)

I'm also not sure what you consider "really bad" though, but to me you expect an atrocious start so that means 4 wins? 5? Less then 4?

I'm really sold on this young team, and obviously a ton depends on growth, and Cade not only having a good rookie campaign, but meshing well with the team(and Hayes of course)

since this thread is about MY preferred lineup then i would have to go with:

Frank Jackson
Cade Cunningham
Saddiq Bey
Jerami Grant
Isaiah Stewart

it's the most cade-centric lineup we could put out there, there's optimal spacing (assuming stewart improves a little more) and there's enough secondary ball handlers the offense doesn't fall apart when the ball isn't in cade's hands. ideally there would be more play making in that lineup but i think it could be good for this season, then we go out next off season and get a proper guard to fit next to cade going forward.

zeebneeb wrote:

Snakebites wrote:To be clear, I’m 90 percent sure we’ll be starting Hayes, Cade, Bey, Grant, Isaiah.

And it’ll be really bad. Especially at first. Hopefully it’ll become less so.

I'm willing to take you up on that bet if your willing. Now this is a blind estimation of course as no one has seen the team play together yet, but if I'm guessing, and calculating in growth of second year players, starting the year fresh with no Blakes, and Roses, new additions, the first 20 games I'm willing to bet the team goes 8-12+(+ being an outside shot at .500)

I'm also not sure what you consider "really bad" though, but to me you expect an atrocious start so that means 4 wins? 5? Less then 4?

I'm really sold on this young team, and obviously a ton depends on growth, and Cade not only having a good rookie campaign, but meshing well with the team(and Hayes of course)

When you look at the roster you only see what could be.

I see what is right now.

I haven’t looked at our schedule yet, so I can’t put a number on our first 20 games. But I’d be shocked, even with a relatively tender schedule, if we aren’t well below .500 after 20.

buzzkilloton wrote:The advantage of playing Killian more minutes then the other non Cade guards is we lose more games. Hes a secret tanking weapon. The disadvantage of course will be hes useless off ball and dribbles alot.

True, but optimizing Cade's first year development by putting an NBA-level player next to him is more important to me than getting another top 5 pick. If we're winning too many games with Cade performing at a high-level, that's actually the best possible outcome imo.

The very last thing I want to happen is for Cade to struggle all year. And as of right now, Killian seems a lot more likely to cause issues for him than Joseph, Diallo, or Jackson.

whitehops wrote:since this thread is about MY preferred lineup then i would have to go with:

Frank Jackson
Cade Cunningham
Saddiq Bey
Jerami Grant
Isaiah Stewart

it's the most cade-centric lineup we could put out there, there's optimal spacing (assuming stewart improves a little more) and there's enough secondary ball handlers the offense doesn't fall apart when the ball isn't in cade's hands. ideally there would be more play making in that lineup but i think it could be good for this season, then we go out next off season and get a proper guard to fit next to cade going forward.

I would be excited to watch that lineup. My only concern with Frank is that his shooting last year turns out to be a fluke, because he doesn't bring much else... Part of me doesn't wanna touch the role he thrived in last year off the bench.