ImageImageImage

Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015

Moderators: dVs33, Snakebites, theBigLip

User avatar
bstein14
RealGM
Posts: 24,383
And1: 3,817
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Contact:

Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#1 » by bstein14 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:57 pm

That't correct, Ainge was targeting Justice Winslow and was trying desperately to trade up with Detroit or Charlotte to get him before the Heat picked him at #10. Boston reportedly offered 4 first rounders and 2 2nds to get the #8 pick. Boston had 2 firsts that year and

Detroit would have most likely gotten

2015 (4 picks)
#16, #28, #33, #45

2016 first (#23)
2018 first (#27)

In all honestly Boston had some good improvement and those two future firsts ended up being better than expected perhaps, but still somewhat crazy to turn down that offer because you're so set that Stanley Johnson is going to be a great player.
User avatar
Snakebites
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 39,422
And1: 9,354
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Location: Looking not-so-happily deranged
   

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#2 » by Snakebites » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:39 pm

I remember being skeptical of such an offer at the time. Now that we’ve seen how bad SVG was in subsequent years it’s easier to believe.

Still, is there a link?
mattao313
Head Coach
Posts: 6,597
And1: 3,079
Joined: Aug 29, 2014
       

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#3 » by mattao313 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:47 pm

Regardless of who was drafted i don't think that was all that great just looking at draft position. I mean we could have drafted Booker too i would have rather had that than those mediocre picks.

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app
Championships
User avatar
bstein14
RealGM
Posts: 24,383
And1: 3,817
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Contact:

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#4 » by bstein14 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:21 pm

Snakebites wrote:I remember being skeptical of such an offer at the time. Now that we’ve seen how bad SVG was in subsequent years it’s easier to believe.

Still, is there a link?


After Frank Kaminksy (who was drafted #9 by Charlotte) dropped 35 points for the Suns last night, there was several NBA twitter folks who commented on and confirmed the fact that Jordan turned down an offer of 6 picks (4 firsts and 2 2nds) for that #9 pick in the draft... it also mentioned that Boston tried the few picks before Kaminsky as well to get a pick so they could take Winslow.

I'm sure SVG and Ainge would be unlikely to ever comment on it now but enough legit NBA folks confirmed the offes were made that I think its a safe bet its real.

Of course we don't know for sure what the 4 first rounders would be or the two second rounders.
Liqourish
RealGM
Posts: 14,639
And1: 2,069
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
       

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#5 » by Liqourish » Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:25 pm

I still don't believe this rumor.
User avatar
bstein14
RealGM
Posts: 24,383
And1: 3,817
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Contact:

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#6 » by bstein14 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:32 pm

mattao313 wrote:Regardless of who was drafted i don't think that was all that great just looking at draft position. I mean we could have drafted Booker too i would have rather had that than those mediocre picks.

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app


For sure if you can get a Booker type player, or a Paul Pierce(picked 10th) its much better to take an all-star. But for every player taken 8/9/10 there are far more Rodney Whites than Devin Bookers.

Overall, we were still so bad having the chance to add 4 firsts and a good 2nd rounder was worth the risk for us. I'm sure we'd likely have a much different path making a trade like that... Just like we would have had a much different path not trading for Blake Griffin.
User avatar
Snakebites
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 39,422
And1: 9,354
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Location: Looking not-so-happily deranged
   

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#7 » by Snakebites » Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:35 pm

If you believe you have the "right" guy- someone who can become a really strong starter for you, you don't make that move.

The issue here is that we picked Stanley freaking Johnson, who we thought was the right guy. There was a guy on the board who would have justified not taking that deal. We just didn't take him.

I'm still not entirely sold on this rumor, but the trade isn't the issue. The pick was.
mattao313
Head Coach
Posts: 6,597
And1: 3,079
Joined: Aug 29, 2014
       

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#8 » by mattao313 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:21 pm

bstein14 wrote:
mattao313 wrote:Regardless of who was drafted i don't think that was all that great just looking at draft position. I mean we could have drafted Booker too i would have rather had that than those mediocre picks.

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app


For sure if you can get a Booker type player, or a Paul Pierce(picked 10th) its much better to take an all-star. But for every player taken 8/9/10 there are far more Rodney Whites than Devin Bookers.

Overall, we were still so bad having the chance to add 4 firsts and a good 2nd rounder was worth the risk for us. I'm sure we'd likely have a much different path making a trade like that... Just like we would have had a much different path not trading for Blake Griffin.
Sure but those late first don't mean we get a good player either.

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app
Championships
Invictus88
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,732
And1: 670
Joined: Jun 25, 2013

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#9 » by Invictus88 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:03 pm

It would be interesting to see a statistical breakdown of how many players at each draft position turn out to be players of a particular echelon in terms of production. In the best case scenario you could pivot by whichever overall statistical metric you choose.

Does anyone know if something like this exists? It might be insightful when trying to evaluate whether trading a #8 for 6 later firsts makes sense.

Hmm... I did some more looking and found this: https://www.82games.com/barzilai1.htm
User avatar
vege
RealGM
Posts: 16,095
And1: 2,039
Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Location: Welcome Cade

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#10 » by vege » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:29 pm

I would take the #8 over all those picks, the problem is, we drafted the wrong guy.
MotownMadness
RealGM
Posts: 32,963
And1: 19,221
Joined: Oct 08, 2013
 

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#11 » by MotownMadness » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:31 pm

Snakebites wrote:If you believe you have the "right" guy- someone who can become a really strong starter for you, you don't make that move.

The issue here is that we picked Stanley freaking Johnson, who we thought was the right guy. There was a guy on the board who would have justified not taking that deal. We just didn't take him.

I'm still not entirely sold on this rumor, but the trade isn't the issue. The pick was.

I remember SVG saying he had a offer come through that made him take a pause and think about it. I know Boston was calling but not sure on how many picks.
User avatar
Manocad
RealGM
Posts: 65,339
And1: 9,184
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: Middle Fingerton
Contact:
       

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#12 » by Manocad » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:44 pm

Liqourish wrote:I still don't believe this rumor.

Me either. FOUR first rounders and two seconds to get to 8? No friggin' way.
Image
Billl
Analyst
Posts: 3,144
And1: 1,368
Joined: Sep 06, 2013

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#13 » by Billl » Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:12 pm

Ainge is a historic tightwad. I have a hard time believing he made an offer anything like that.
Invictus88
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,732
And1: 670
Joined: Jun 25, 2013

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#14 » by Invictus88 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:17 pm

Manocad wrote:
Liqourish wrote:I still don't believe this rumor.

Me either. FOUR first rounders and two seconds to get to 8? No friggin' way.


Objectively the Pistons win that trade but it also depends on composition of that year's draft. The firsts are all non-lottery / late round picks so it would take a ton of them bundled to get a lottery pick back.

Hypothetically speaking, given just how bad the Pistons were at drafting it might have been a push in terms of value at the end.
buzzkilloton
Starter
Posts: 2,489
And1: 1,176
Joined: Feb 20, 2017
 

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#15 » by buzzkilloton » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:45 am

Winslow was projected to be a higher pick in that draft then he was. Winslow is the exact type of player Ainge would aim for. I heard this rumor alot at the time and I believe it. SVG was a bad GM.

Remember SVG is the same guy who tried to get Blake to save his job on his exit. When every member of the national media and some fans knew it was a complete awful trade. That pick he traded would of been a guy like MPjr or Miles Bridges. Miles Bridges right now is breaking out. Not to mention we gave up other stuff in that trade.
Fade for Cade
User avatar
Manocad
RealGM
Posts: 65,339
And1: 9,184
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: Middle Fingerton
Contact:
       

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#16 » by Manocad » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:39 pm

buzzkilloton wrote:Winslow was projected to be a higher pick in that draft then he was. Winslow is the exact type of player Ainge would aim for. I heard this rumor alot at the time and I believe it. SVG was a bad GM.

Remember SVG is the same guy who tried to get Blake to save his job on his exit. When every member of the national media and some fans knew it was a complete awful trade. That pick he traded would of been a guy like MPjr or Miles Bridges. Miles Bridges right now is breaking out. Not to mention we gave up other stuff in that trade.

Wait a minute--how can Miles Bridges just now be breaking out when he was drafted in 2018? Man, that's a dicey move by Charlotte hanging on to a player who doesn't break out until his fourth year in the league. Everyone knows that if a player hasn't broken out after 26 games or so he should be treated like a bust.
Image
buzzkilloton
Starter
Posts: 2,489
And1: 1,176
Joined: Feb 20, 2017
 

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#17 » by buzzkilloton » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:54 pm

Manocad wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:Winslow was projected to be a higher pick in that draft then he was. Winslow is the exact type of player Ainge would aim for. I heard this rumor alot at the time and I believe it. SVG was a bad GM.

Remember SVG is the same guy who tried to get Blake to save his job on his exit. When every member of the national media and some fans knew it was a complete awful trade. That pick he traded would of been a guy like MPjr or Miles Bridges. Miles Bridges right now is breaking out. Not to mention we gave up other stuff in that trade.

Wait a minute--how can Miles Bridges just now be breaking out when he was drafted in 2018? Man, that's a dicey move by Charlotte hanging on to a player who doesn't break out until his fourth year in the league. Everyone knows that if a player hasn't broken out after 26 games or so he should be treated like a bust.


It was obv from year one that Bridges was a guy who was going to stick around in the NBA. He didnt start his career as one of the worst players in the league. He made big improvements year 1 to year 2 just this season he had a huge break out.

Let me see Killian hmmm 6ppg 3apg this season what was he doing last year oh 6.8 5.3apg. Shooting better on 3pters on a small sample size doesnt impress me. Now go look at the other guards drafted last season year two Haliburton,Melo,Maxey, and Cole Anthony look damn good we got the turd.
Fade for Cade
El Chivo
Starter
Posts: 2,199
And1: 902
Joined: Jun 19, 2015
Location: Roma
       

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#18 » by El Chivo » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:20 pm

vege wrote:I would take the #8 over all those picks, the problem is, we drafted the wrong guy.


Agreed.
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
User avatar
Manocad
RealGM
Posts: 65,339
And1: 9,184
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: Middle Fingerton
Contact:
       

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#19 » by Manocad » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:00 pm

buzzkilloton wrote:
Manocad wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:Winslow was projected to be a higher pick in that draft then he was. Winslow is the exact type of player Ainge would aim for. I heard this rumor alot at the time and I believe it. SVG was a bad GM.

Remember SVG is the same guy who tried to get Blake to save his job on his exit. When every member of the national media and some fans knew it was a complete awful trade. That pick he traded would of been a guy like MPjr or Miles Bridges. Miles Bridges right now is breaking out. Not to mention we gave up other stuff in that trade.

Wait a minute--how can Miles Bridges just now be breaking out when he was drafted in 2018? Man, that's a dicey move by Charlotte hanging on to a player who doesn't break out until his fourth year in the league. Everyone knows that if a player hasn't broken out after 26 games or so he should be treated like a bust.


It was obv from year one that Bridges was a guy who was going to stick around in the NBA. He didnt start his career as one of the worst players in the league. He made big improvements year 1 to year 2 just this season he had a huge break out.

Let me see Killian hmmm 6ppg 3apg this season what was he doing last year oh 6.8 5.3apg. Shooting better on 3pters on a small sample size doesnt impress me. Now go look at the other guards drafted last season year two Haliburton,Melo,Maxey, and Cole Anthony look damn good we got the turd.

So you're saying that a player should be given the opportunity to improve from Year 1 to Year 2? As in after playing a full season of games?
Image
Mogolo
Sophomore
Posts: 176
And1: 114
Joined: Mar 11, 2016
     

Re: Danny Ainge offered SVG 6 draft picks for #8(Stanley Johnson) in 2015 

Post#20 » by Mogolo » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:56 pm

Everyone knows Ainge wasn't giving all that away just for a draft pick , was more than likely something along the lines of (for #8 + 6 future first of his chosing over the next 10 years....

Return to Detroit Pistons