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Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST

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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#201 » by MotownMadness » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:51 am

zeebneeb wrote:
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"Not elite at getting to the line".

The company Cade just joined should have all of us really, REALLY, excited.

How many games has Cade played?




8

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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#202 » by Rodman » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:52 am

I am beginning to get SVG vibes from Casey.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#203 » by Manocad » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:01 am

buzzkilloton wrote:
Titan77 wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:
Players control getting to the line by creating contact. Its a skill.


& refs aren't calling such fouls as much this year.


All the leagues great scorers get to the line more then the rate he is this season. His point is relevant he needs to improve on that. Its a lack of craftiness and strength that he will need to work on. Getting to the line is a skill that people underrate in the elite scorers in the league.

Its not taking away anything from a great game. Its actually impressive that he had a great game but you can still see how in the future with improving areas of his game he could be a guy who puts up 30+ on a night like tonight by drawing contact.

So you wouldn't take 25/8/8 every game with no FT's? :lol:

You can argue that point all you want. This is just the wrong game to argue it. If he wasn't scoring because he was missing outside shots and refused to drive the lane and draw contact instead, sure. But when you're dropping outside shots, especially 3's, there's no reason to intentionally drive the lane, risking injury along the way, just to create contact and get FT's because "that's what the great scorers do."
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#204 » by bstein14 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:05 am

Here's a look into what % of the team's shots cade gets while he is on the floor.

25.7% Usage rate (highest on the team)
30.9% of team's 3 point attempts while he is on the court
15.1% of team's free throws while he is on the court

Of all the players in the entire NBA that have a usage rate of 25% or higher and play at least 20 minutes per game, Cade shoot's the fewest FTs.

I don't think it's a huge concern in the short term, but being able to absorb contact and make a shot when you take the ball to the rim is likely going to be an important part of his growth as a player over time. He very much does try to avoid and any all contact when he takes the ball to the rack, unless he's using his off arm a bit to create space to prevent the defender from challenging the shot.
At the end of the day, getting a few more freebies along the way is just going to take him to another level as a scorer. It's pretty common for almost all of the top scorers in the league (25+ PPG) to average 5.0+ FTAs per game... BUT of course that has changed a bit this year with the rules changes.

If there is one thing that Cade really needs to work on improving the most at the moment is not picking up the ball before he is ready to pass because it allows teams to jump the passing lanes on him. He's currently 11th highest in the league in TO's and he's averaging 3.6 APG and 3.6 TO per game so that 1:1 ratio needs a bit of work. His scoring overall is fine for now with what we've seen these last few games.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#205 » by buzzkilloton » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:06 am

Manocad wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:
Titan77 wrote:
& refs aren't calling such fouls as much this year.


All the leagues great scorers get to the line more then the rate he is this season. His point is relevant he needs to improve on that. Its a lack of craftiness and strength that he will need to work on. Getting to the line is a skill that people underrate in the elite scorers in the league.

Its not taking away anything from a great game. Its actually impressive that he had a great game but you can still see how in the future with improving areas of his game he could be a guy who puts up 30+ on a night like tonight by drawing contact.

So you wouldn't take 25/8/8 every game with no FT's? :lol:

You can argue that point all you want. This is just the wrong game to argue it. If he wasn't scoring because he was missing outside shots and refused to drive the lane and draw contact instead, sure. But when you're dropping outside shots, especially 3's, there's no reason to intentionally drive the lane, risking injury along the way, just to create contact and get FT's because "that's what the great scorers do."


Not one person said he didnt have a great game. If you think hes a finished product that doesnt need to improve anything because he had a good game thats on you.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#206 » by whitehops » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:13 am

cade and hayes did well and combined for 25 points, it's a shame the rest of the team couldn't help them out.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#207 » by DetroitSho » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:27 am

whitehops wrote:cade and hayes did well and combined for 25 points, it's a shame the rest of the team couldn't help them out.
Lol I remember u used to post on the Pistons forum of the Detroit News. There was this weirdo named Lee or something that was a Darko jock sniffer. He basically made the loss of Darko out to be the biggest thing and the Pistons would rue the day they traded him. He would always combine his and Dwight Howard's stats to show the big impact he was having on the team. Sounds alot better when you say they put up 35 and 18 together instead of being real and saying Darko put up 7 and 4. Dude was so annoying.

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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#208 » by MotownMadness » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:28 am

The records still coming through lol

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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#209 » by whitehops » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:29 am

bstein14 wrote:I don't think it's a huge concern in the short term, but being able to absorb contact and make a shot when you take the ball to the rim is likely going to be an important part of his growth as a player over time. He very much does try to avoid and any all contact when he takes the ball to the rack, unless he's using his off arm a bit to create space to prevent the defender from challenging the shot.
At the end of the day, getting a few more freebies along the way is just going to take him to another level as a scorer. It's pretty common for almost all of the top scorers in the league (25+ PPG) to average 5.0+ FTAs per game... BUT of course that has changed a bit this year with the rules changes.

If there is one thing that Cade really needs to work on improving the most at the moment is not picking up the ball before he is ready to pass because it allows teams to jump the passing lanes on him. He's currently 11th highest in the league in TO's and he's averaging 3.6 APG and 3.6 TO per game so that 1:1 ratio needs a bit of work. His scoring overall is fine for now with what we've seen these last few games.

you're not wrong in that it's not a concern in the short-term, but the reasoning is a little off. he's actually been very good at seeking, absorbing contact and finishing on drives, especially for a rookie. compare that to hayes, who is so contact-adverse that he resorts to floaters if he doesn't have a wide open layup and will often not even attempt a layup if there is a defender near the rim.

basically, players get to the line because they force defenders to use illegal means to try to stop them. a lot of that is being skilled/talented enough to force them into illegal defensive positions, and the extreme (which is being corrected this season) is making unnatural basketball moves into defenders in the opportune moments when they aren't in legal defensive position. right now cade is comfortable taking contact but improving his ability to get to his spots and keep the defense off balance is definitely a development for his game.


and yeah picking the ball up is one issue but just in general he has to be more crisp with his passing off the dribble. his "play at his own pace" style works to an extent but the slower he is making passes off the dribble it just gives on-ball defenders more time to get their hands up to contest passes and off-ball defenders more time to try to deflect/intercept passes.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#210 » by whitehops » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:42 am

DetroitSho wrote:Lol I remember u used to post on the Pistons forum of the Detroit News. There was this weirdo named Lee or something that was a Darko jock sniffer. He basically made the loss of Darko out to be the biggest thing and the Pistons would rue the day they traded him. He would always combine his and Dwight Howard's stats to show the big impact he was having on the team. Sounds alot better when you say they put up 35 and 18 together instead of being real and saying Darko put up 7 and 4. Dude was so annoying.


i'm not denying that i can be annoying but i don't think i'm the person you're thinking of. i didn't follow the pistons until brandon jennings came here in 2014 (i have a better eye for talent these days i swear haha) and even then i only posted on RealGM.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#211 » by DetroitSho » Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:12 am

whitehops wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:Lol I remember u used to post on the Pistons forum of the Detroit News. There was this weirdo named Lee or something that was a Darko jock sniffer. He basically made the loss of Darko out to be the biggest thing and the Pistons would rue the day they traded him. He would always combine his and Dwight Howard's stats to show the big impact he was having on the team. Sounds alot better when you say they put up 35 and 18 together instead of being real and saying Darko put up 7 and 4. Dude was so annoying.


i'm not denying that i can be annoying but i don't think i'm the person you're thinking of. i didn't follow the pistons until brandon jennings came here in 2014 (i have a better eye for talent these days i swear haha) and even then i only posted on RealGM.
Oh naw bro, that wasn't directed at you. I know you were saying it in jest. It just reminded me of that guy but he used to be dead serious. Lol

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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#212 » by dVs33 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:44 am

Watching the game now even though I know we got pumped.
It is insane how many wide open shots and lay up we miss. I really don’t understand how an entire team can be in a shooting slump like this.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#213 » by El Chivo » Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:54 am

this team should be playing 70 pick and rolls possession per game, but the Genius Casey wants them play hands off all night long.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#214 » by dVs33 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:42 am

El Chivo wrote:this team should be playing 70 pick and rolls possession per game, but the Genius Casey wants them play hands off all night long.


That would help, but it doesn’t explain how many open shots we’ve missed this year.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#215 » by The Moose » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:37 am

Manocad wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:
Titan77 wrote:
& refs aren't calling such fouls as much this year.


All the leagues great scorers get to the line more then the rate he is this season. His point is relevant he needs to improve on that. Its a lack of craftiness and strength that he will need to work on. Getting to the line is a skill that people underrate in the elite scorers in the league.

Its not taking away anything from a great game. Its actually impressive that he had a great game but you can still see how in the future with improving areas of his game he could be a guy who puts up 30+ on a night like tonight by drawing contact.

So you wouldn't take 25/8/8 every game with no FT's? :lol:

You can argue that point all you want. This is just the wrong game to argue it. If he wasn't scoring because he was missing outside shots and refused to drive the lane and draw contact instead, sure. But when you're dropping outside shots, especially 3's, there's no reason to intentionally drive the lane, risking injury along the way, just to create contact and get FT's because "that's what the great scorers do."


Seeing as I was the one who brought up this point initially, I guess I'll respond. As its been said, nobody said he didn't have a great game because he didnt get to the ft line, I was the person who brought the free throws and I said he had a great game. My point was never about only this game at all, so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that. Yes its possible to score well and efficiently in a game with 0 free throw attempts, is it easy to do consistently? no

Just to further drive the point home, here is exactly what I said,
"I will say though, he really needs to get to the ft line if he's going to be an elite scorer. He's up to 56 fg attempts in the last 4 games with 0 ft attempts".

So right off the bat, the point wasn't purely about this game, I was talking about the past 3 others too. It shouldn't be that controversial of a statement, show me some elite scorers in the NBA who consistently don't get to the line at all because I can't think of any. The reason elite scorers get to the ft line is because its the easiest points in the game, and if/when Cade develops that ability it won't be so dependent on him shooting 50%+ on jumpshots which is extremely difficult to do consistently. Nobody is arguing he will likely be one of the leagues elite shooters. If your belief is that he wasn't driving and trying to draw contact simply because he was making jump shots, whats the reason for his lack of free throws in games where he hasn't been shooting lights out?

Its not like this is something new, in the preseason he had 49 field goal attempts and 2 ft attempts. Again, nobody said he didn't have a great game, or that he even necessarily has to be an elite scorer to be a great player.
I just think for him to reach that elite scorer level that I believe he can potentially reach, he eventually needs to start getting to the ft line. Personally I think free throws will come for him once he gets a bit older and stronger as Buzz said.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#216 » by LaSheed » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:45 am

whitehops wrote:cade and hayes did well and combined for 25 points, it's a shame the rest of the team couldn't help them out.



Haha I dont mind Hayes but this was a great post.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#217 » by Manocad » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:18 pm

buzzkilloton wrote:
Manocad wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:
All the leagues great scorers get to the line more then the rate he is this season. His point is relevant he needs to improve on that. Its a lack of craftiness and strength that he will need to work on. Getting to the line is a skill that people underrate in the elite scorers in the league.

Its not taking away anything from a great game. Its actually impressive that he had a great game but you can still see how in the future with improving areas of his game he could be a guy who puts up 30+ on a night like tonight by drawing contact.

So you wouldn't take 25/8/8 every game with no FT's? :lol:

You can argue that point all you want. This is just the wrong game to argue it. If he wasn't scoring because he was missing outside shots and refused to drive the lane and draw contact instead, sure. But when you're dropping outside shots, especially 3's, there's no reason to intentionally drive the lane, risking injury along the way, just to create contact and get FT's because "that's what the great scorers do."


Not one person said he didnt have a great game. If you think hes a finished product that doesnt need to improve anything because he had a good game thats on you.

Straw man yet again. I never said Cade was a finished product nor that he couldn't improve parts of his game. He's played 8 games; of course he can improve. That's a Captain Obvious perspective. My point was simply that this game wasn't an example of him needing improvement in anything. Well, other than a few bad passes resulting in turnovers, and even then he still had a 2/1 assists to TO's ratio. Pick your spots better.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#218 » by Manocad » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:34 pm

The Moose wrote:
Manocad wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:
All the leagues great scorers get to the line more then the rate he is this season. His point is relevant he needs to improve on that. Its a lack of craftiness and strength that he will need to work on. Getting to the line is a skill that people underrate in the elite scorers in the league.

Its not taking away anything from a great game. Its actually impressive that he had a great game but you can still see how in the future with improving areas of his game he could be a guy who puts up 30+ on a night like tonight by drawing contact.

So you wouldn't take 25/8/8 every game with no FT's? :lol:

You can argue that point all you want. This is just the wrong game to argue it. If he wasn't scoring because he was missing outside shots and refused to drive the lane and draw contact instead, sure. But when you're dropping outside shots, especially 3's, there's no reason to intentionally drive the lane, risking injury along the way, just to create contact and get FT's because "that's what the great scorers do."


Seeing as I was the one who brought up this point initially, I guess I'll respond. As its been said, nobody said he didn't have a great game because he didnt get to the ft line, I was the person who brought the free throws and I said he had a great game. My point was never about only this game at all, so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that. Yes its possible to score well and efficiently in a game with 0 free throw attempts, is it easy to do consistently? no

Just to further drive the point home, here is exactly what I said,
"I will say though, he really needs to get to the ft line if he's going to be an elite scorer. He's up to 56 fg attempts in the last 4 games with 0 ft attempts".

So right off the bat, the point wasn't purely about this game, I was talking about the past 3 others too. It shouldn't be that controversial of a statement, show me some elite scorers in the NBA who consistently don't get to the line at all because I can't think of any. The reason elite scorers get to the ft line is because its the easiest points in the game, and if/when Cade develops that ability it won't be so dependent on him shooting 50%+ on jumpshots which is extremely difficult to do consistently. Nobody is arguing he will likely be one of the leagues elite shooters. If your belief is that he wasn't driving and trying to draw contact simply because he was making jump shots, whats the reason for his lack of free throws in games where he hasn't been shooting lights out?

Its not like this is something new, in the preseason he had 49 field goal attempts and 2 ft attempts. Again, nobody said he didn't have a great game, or that he even necessarily has to be an elite scorer to be a great player.
I just think for him to reach that elite scorer level that I believe he can potentially reach, he eventually needs to start getting to the ft line. Personally I think free throws will come for him once he gets a bit older and stronger as Buzz said.

I'm not sure why you're addressing my posts quoting someone else and saying "I wasn't talking about just this game." My point was simple; watching this game shouldn't be a trigger for anyone to think that Cade needs to get to the line more; it's a game thread, not "What does Cade need to improve on?" thread. And yes, when you say "all the great scorers get to the line more so he needs to improve on that" you (rhetorical "you;" in this case buzz, which is who I was addressing) ARE saying that he needs to be a great scorer. No, it's not easy to consistently hit outside shots at a 50% clip. But when it IS happening you don't need to get to the line. Every game is its own situation. It's not easy to consistently drive the lane, get contact, and get a call either. Especially as a rookie which we're already seeing. It's well known that stars are going to get calls that rookies don't get, and if you're watching the games you'll have noticed there have been PLENTY of plays where Cade didn't get a call that the Hardens/Durants of the world would have gotten. So you take what you can get, and if Cade isn't getting calls but dropping his outside shot he SHOULD keep shooting from outside. That's just playing smart basketball and doing what's working within the game/helping the team rather than thinking "How do I become an elite scorer?"
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#219 » by tradez401 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:04 pm



saddiq looked great last night with cade.
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Re: Game 13: Kings (5-8) @ Pistons (3-9) - Nov. 15 7:00 PM EST 

Post#220 » by NYPiston » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:26 pm

zeebneeb wrote:Okay hold on here. I wonder how much NBA basketball some people are watching this year. To get to the damn line this year, you almost have to have a police report to give to the refs.

Cade not getting to the line(he is a ROOKIE)is him not knowing what triggers the refs, and like the rest if the league, are having a tough time getting a whistle, let alone get to the line.

Last year hes probably getting to the line twice as much.


As it should be. The product is WAY more watchable this season as a result outside of the Pistons of course haha. I've watched more NBA regular season games this season than I've seen in years.

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