Piston Stat-Cat Team Rankings

TPA · Post #1 » by **TPA** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:30 am

Obviously, the Pistons are bad. The team record, eye test, and the stats prove it. I took a look this evening to see exactly where our boys fall in some statistical categories vs. the rest of the NBA. The results are surprising, and not, both at the same time. Out of 30 NBA teams, here's where the Pistons rank:

PPG - 29th
FG% - 29th
3pt% - 30th
RPG - 28th
APG - 27th
SPG - 9th
BPG - 18th
TO's - 6th (25th worst)
PF's - 3rd (28th worst)
Offensive Rtng: 29th
Defensive Rtng: 22nd

This team is about as bad as it gets. There's not a lot (performance-wise, on-court) to hang our hats on. Obviously, we're looking forward to another great draft position, continued growth within the roster, FA moves, and a boat-load of FA cash at the end of this season. And hopefully an upgrade at the coaching position within the next couple of years.

Post #2 » by **Cowology** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:04 am

Yeah, I mean this is kinda what we signed up for. Burn it down and tank hard for multiple seasons because the reality is that having 1 good player isn't enough. That's why it's such a scary prospect; the multi-year investment required to actually acquire the type of assets you need also runs the risk of creating a toxic environment. You need *strong* leadership in that lockerroom to help hold it together until the team is ready to pivot. Next year is probably going to suck pretty badly too, but we'll hopefully have a few more bright spots.

Laimbeer · Post #3 » by **Laimbeer** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:59 pm

It does make you wonder how much being part of an awful team affects Cade's performance. I mean, he'll get more usage, but doing positive things with it is far more difficult.

mattao313 · Post #4 » by **mattao313** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:45 pm

It's not surprising just look at the roster besides Grant and possibly Kelly none of these guys start on good team's.

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Invictus88 · Post #5 » by **Invictus88** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:29 pm

mattao313 wrote:It's not surprising just look at the roster besides Grant and possibly Kelly none of these guys start on good team's.

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Kelly Olynyk comes off the bench on a good team imo.

Manocad · Post #6 » by **Manocad** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:07 pm

Invictus88 wrote:
mattao313 wrote:It's not surprising just look at the roster besides Grant and possibly Kelly none of these guys start on good team's.

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Kelly Olynyk comes off the bench on a good team imo.

Depends on the team. Kendrick Perkins, Boris Diaw, Luc Longley and Bill Cartwright were starting centers on championship teams.

Invictus88 · Post #7 » by **Invictus88** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:18 am

Manocad wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:
mattao313 wrote:It's not surprising just look at the roster besides Grant and possibly Kelly none of these guys start on good team's.

Sent from my 5087Z using RealGM mobile app

Kelly Olynyk comes off the bench on a good team imo.

Depends on the team. Kendrick Perkins, Boris Diaw, Luc Longley and Bill Cartwright were starting centers on championship teams.

I guess I could qualify my previous statement with "most of the time" if you want to nitpick.

There's always going to be exceptions where a team is so good elsewhere that they can compensate for having a subpar starting center.

Maybe in the last 5-10 years things have changed enough where it's more common though?

Manocad · Post #8 » by **Manocad** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:10 pm

Invictus88 wrote:
Manocad wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:
Kelly Olynyk comes off the bench on a good team imo.

Depends on the team. Kendrick Perkins, Boris Diaw, Luc Longley and Bill Cartwright were starting centers on championship teams.

I guess I could qualify my previous statement with "most of the time" if you want to nitpick.

There's always going to be exceptions where a team is so good elsewhere that they can compensate for having a subpar starting center.

Maybe in the last 5-10 years things have changed enough where it's more common though?

Which is nitpicking, actually. But for the sake of argument...Kelly put up 12.5/5.3/2.3 in 23 minutes a game. Anyone who wants to argue that doesn't project to a stat line in 32 minutes a game--let's call it 17.4/7.4/3.2--to be good enough to start for any good team no matter the lineup is arguing just to argue. For comparison:

LMA (Brooklyn) - 14.0/5.7/0.9 in 23 minutes
Vucevic (Chicago) - 15.5/10.4/3.5 in 33 minutes
Lopez (Milwaukee) - 8.0/5.0/0.0 in 28 minutes
Allen (Cleveland) - 16.8/10.8/2.0 in 33 minutes
Ayton (Phoenix) - 16.9/11.3/1.6 in 31 minutes
Looney (Golden State) - 5.8/6.3/1.3 in 19 minutes
Gobert (Utah) - 15.4/15.0/1.1 in 32 minutes
Adams (Memphis) - 7.0/9.0/2.8 in 32 minutes

Those are the starting centers on the top 8 teams in the NBA. I honestly don't know what the basis is for arguing that Olynyk isn't good enough to start on a good team because the numbers sure as hell don't bear it out.

thesack12 · Post #9 » by **thesack12** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:27 pm

Other than his short stint after getting traded to the G League caliber Rockets late last season, Olynyk has never been a full time starter on any team he's played for. He's only started 166 out of 580 career games (28.6% starts.)

Olynyk has only been on 2 teams that have advanced past the 1st round of the playoffs:

16-17 Celtics that went to the ECF's, in which Kelly only started 6/75 regular season games and only 2/18 Playoff games.
19-20 Heat that went to the "Bubble" Finals, in which Kelly only started 9/67 regular season games and 0/17 Playoff games.

Olynyk has been to the playoffs 3 other times, getting swept in the 1st round twice and losing in the 1st round in 5 games the other time.

Overall Olynyk has started only 2/48 career playoff games (4.1% starts.)

We can speculate about x, y, z but it sure seems like throughout his career Olynyk's own teams didn't view him as good enough to be a starter.

Manocad · Post #10 » by **Manocad** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:40 pm

thesack12 wrote:Other than his short stint after getting traded to the G League caliber Rockets late last season, Olynyk has never been a full time starter on any team he's played for. He's only started 166 out of 580 career games (28.6% starts.)

Olynyk has only been on 2 teams that have advanced past the 1st round of the playoffs:

16-17 Celtics that went to the ECF's, in which Kelly only started 6/75 regular season games and only 2/18 Playoff games.
19-20 Heat that went to the "Bubble" Finals, in which Kelly only started 9/67 regular season games and 0/17 Playoff games.

Olynyk has been to the playoffs 3 other times, getting swept in the 1st round twice and losing in the 1st round in 5 games the other time.

Overall Olynyk has started only 2/48 career playoff games (4.1% starts.)

We can speculate about x, y, z but it sure seems like throughout his career Olynyk's own teams didn't view him as good enough to be a starter.

So he has started games on good teams.

Invictus88 · Post #11 » by **Invictus88** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:48 pm

Manocad wrote:
thesack12 wrote:Other than his short stint after getting traded to the G League caliber Rockets late last season, Olynyk has never been a full time starter on any team he's played for. He's only started 166 out of 580 career games (28.6% starts.)

Olynyk has only been on 2 teams that have advanced past the 1st round of the playoffs:

16-17 Celtics that went to the ECF's, in which Kelly only started 6/75 regular season games and only 2/18 Playoff games.
19-20 Heat that went to the "Bubble" Finals, in which Kelly only started 9/67 regular season games and 0/17 Playoff games.

Olynyk has been to the playoffs 3 other times, getting swept in the 1st round twice and losing in the 1st round in 5 games the other time.

Overall Olynyk has started only 2/48 career playoff games (4.1% starts.)

We can speculate about x, y, z but it sure seems like throughout his career Olynyk's own teams didn't view him as good enough to be a starter.

So he has started games on good teams.

I mean. He gave you a thoughtful and reasoned response. You can choose to spin it however you want in your mind I guess.

Manocad · Post #12 » by **Manocad** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:52 pm

Invictus88 wrote:
Manocad wrote:
thesack12 wrote:Other than his short stint after getting traded to the G League caliber Rockets late last season, Olynyk has never been a full time starter on any team he's played for. He's only started 166 out of 580 career games (28.6% starts.)

Olynyk has only been on 2 teams that have advanced past the 1st round of the playoffs:

16-17 Celtics that went to the ECF's, in which Kelly only started 6/75 regular season games and only 2/18 Playoff games.
19-20 Heat that went to the "Bubble" Finals, in which Kelly only started 9/67 regular season games and 0/17 Playoff games.

Olynyk has been to the playoffs 3 other times, getting swept in the 1st round twice and losing in the 1st round in 5 games the other time.

Overall Olynyk has started only 2/48 career playoff games (4.1% starts.)

We can speculate about x, y, z but it sure seems like throughout his career Olynyk's own teams didn't view him as good enough to be a starter.

So he has started games on good teams.

I mean. He gave you a thoughtful and reasoned response. You can choose to spin it however you want in your mind I guess.

I mean. I gave you a thoughtful and reasoned response. Kelly isn't a better option than Brook Lopez or Steven freakin' Adams? :lol:

Ok, sure. You can choose to spin it however you want in your mind I guess.

thesack12 · Post #13 » by **thesack12** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:54 pm

Invictus88 wrote:
Manocad wrote:
thesack12 wrote:Other than his short stint after getting traded to the G League caliber Rockets late last season, Olynyk has never been a full time starter on any team he's played for. He's only started 166 out of 580 career games (28.6% starts.)

Olynyk has only been on 2 teams that have advanced past the 1st round of the playoffs:

16-17 Celtics that went to the ECF's, in which Kelly only started 6/75 regular season games and only 2/18 Playoff games.
19-20 Heat that went to the "Bubble" Finals, in which Kelly only started 9/67 regular season games and 0/17 Playoff games.

Olynyk has been to the playoffs 3 other times, getting swept in the 1st round twice and losing in the 1st round in 5 games the other time.

Overall Olynyk has started only 2/48 career playoff games (4.1% starts.)

We can speculate about x, y, z but it sure seems like throughout his career Olynyk's own teams didn't view him as good enough to be a starter.

So he has started games on good teams.

I mean. He gave you a thoughtful and reasoned response. You can choose to spin it however you want in your mind I guess.

Darko Milicic had 2 starts for the 04-05 Pistons Finals team
Zeljko Rebraca had 2 starts for the 03-04 Pistons championship team

So by definition they were "starters" for a good team.

Gotta love semantics

Invictus88 · Post #14 » by **Invictus88** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:54 pm

And there's a reason he has averaged only 23 minutes in 580 total games. Because he didn't start most games on teams in which he played.

I could take Boban's stats and extrapolate them over 32 minutes to try and create the impression that he should start for a good team too.

Manocad · Post #15 » by **Manocad** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:56 pm

Invictus88 wrote:I could take Boban's stats and extrapolate them over 32 minutes to try and create the impression that he should start for a good team too.

No you can't.

Manocad · Post #16 » by **Manocad** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:57 pm

thesack12 wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:
Manocad wrote:So he has started games on good teams.

I mean. He gave you a thoughtful and reasoned response. You can choose to spin it however you want in your mind I guess.

Darko Milicic had 2 starts for the 04-05 Pistons Finals team
Zeljko Rebraca had 2 starts for the 03-04 Pistons championship team

So by definition they were "starters" for a good team.

Gotta love semantics

Yeah, because that compares to 166 games.

Manocad · Post #17 » by **Manocad** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:58 pm

You guys crack me up. Challenge an opinion and you lose your s**t.

thesack12 · Post #18 » by **thesack12** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:04 pm

Manocad wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:
I mean. He gave you a thoughtful and reasoned response. You can choose to spin it however you want in your mind I guess.

Darko Milicic had 2 starts for the 04-05 Pistons Finals team
Zeljko Rebraca had 2 starts for the 03-04 Pistons championship team

So by definition they were "starters" for a good team.

Gotta love semantics

Yeah, because that compares to 166 games.

Wasn't the argument about being a starter on a "good team" though?

As my previous post outlines, Kelly has only been on 2 teams that got past the 1st round of the playoffs.

On those 2 teams Kelly only started 8/93 total games for the 16-17 Celtics and 9/84 total games for the 19-20 Heat.

If you want to consider starting 17/177 (9.6%) possible games played on a good team, as him being a "starter" you are knowingly and purposely using semantics.

Invictus88 · Post #19 » by **Invictus88** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:06 pm

I think anyone else reading the thread will draw different conclusions. Nothing but level-headed responses. Nice try though.

Manocad · Post #20 » by **Manocad** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:27 pm

thesack12 wrote:
Manocad wrote:
thesack12 wrote:
Darko Milicic had 2 starts for the 04-05 Pistons Finals team
Zeljko Rebraca had 2 starts for the 03-04 Pistons championship team

So by definition they were "starters" for a good team.

Gotta love semantics

Yeah, because that compares to 166 games.

Wasn't the argument about being a starter on a "good team" though?

As my previous post outlines, Kelly has only been on 2 teams that got past the 1st round of the playoffs.

On those 2 teams Kelly only started 8/93 total games for the 16-17 Celtics and 9/84 total games for the 19-20 Heat.

If you want to consider starting 17/177 (9.6%) possible games played on a good team, as him being a "starter" you are knowingly and purposely using semantics.

He did start on good teams, and that was the claim--that he wouldn't start on a good team. Now, I generally assume we're all intelligent people here and can infer from that statement that it's relative to good teams today, and it was indeed clarified that current teams were the consideration. And I gave the stats of the starting centers of the eight best teams in the NBA today. Thus the measure for Olynyk would be centers on good teams today. That being said, if you'd like to make an argument that Brook Lopez and Steven Adams are better options than Kelly Olynyk, by all means please do. I'd like to hear it.

I'm doing the exact opposite of playing the semantics game.