Article: Killian Hayes is Bad

[Manocad]

Not sure why folks have this impression that Cade needs the ball in his hands all the time to be successful. He's great off the ball and we're better off in the long run if we don't play him as a heliocentric Luka type. Keeps him fresher and keeps our offense more unpredictable.

Hayes is exactly the player type we want with him on offense and defense, he just needs to improve his shot. If he can't, he's a bust. If he can, he could be a longterm starter.

Exactly my thoughts. If Hayes was scoring 10-11 points a game on 45%/37% with 5-6 assists and 4-5 boards this wouldn't even be a discussion, and if he just ups his percentages he'd pretty much be there. And clearly those aren't "starting NBA PG" stats strictly by the numbers, but it would certainly work for this team as currently constructed.

[Kalamazoo317]

Right now the best player on our roster playing beside Cade is Cojo. Why? Lately, Corey has been balling, but he shares ball handling duties with Cade to help Cade save energy, he helps generate open looks for Cade from three, he's willing to take fouls to stop bigger players in the post and take some of that physical burden off of Cade, and, maybe most importantly, he's been hitting open shots. If Hayes can do all of those things (and the shot's the missing piece, but he's shown flashes, IMO), there's no reason he can't be a longterm starter.
It's just all about that shot.

[mattao313]

18 games off the bench for Killian and he's been equally as bad as being a starter. His future with the team is not looking too bright. Next season if he even makes it to that point is probably his last chance to show he can be a NBA player.



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[Piston Pete]

18 games off the bench for Killian and he's been equally as bad as being a starter. His future with the team is not looking too bright. Next season if he even makes it to that point is probably his last chance to show he can be a NBA player.



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I thought, for the most part, he’s been better off the bench. He’s had some bad showings, but more decent ones.

Still not worthy of lottery pick type output, but better….

But I agree. If things don’t click soon, it’s likely the Pistons don’t pick up his option.

[bstein14]

18 games off the bench for Killian and he's been equally as bad as being a starter. His future with the team is not looking too bright. Next season if he even makes it to that point is probably his last chance to show he can be a NBA player.



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He is shooting the ball so poorly off the bench its pretty crazy. That said, he has been doing other things well off the bench including defense, passing (the ball is in his hands a lot more not playing next to Cade), low TOs, and he's been betting at driving to the basket against backup bigs than he was against starters.

That said, at this point, if we get another guard in FA or the draft it may be hard to find 20+ MPG for Hayes moving forward. Diallo has proven he's worthy of backup minutes for sure.

[Billl]

For Feb, he's 5.3/4.8 with 2.5 TO's and 11% shooting from 3. He's making some defensive plays and passing well, but his overall offense has been god awful. Guy is still only 20 though - just a couple month older than a lot of the freshmen in this year's draft.

[GreekAlex]

For Feb, he's 5.3/4.8 with 2.5 TO's and 11% shooting from 3. He's making some defensive plays and passing well, but his overall offense has been god awful. Guy is still only 20 though - just a couple month older than a lot of the freshmen in this year's draft.

When this topic comes up, I’ve said 100x he should gain confidence in the g league.

If his age is used as the reason for his awful play, why is he too good for the g league?

I think that would be a better indicator of his current potential. I he can’t show flashes against the young guys, cast-offs and misfits in the g league, it may be time to accept reality.

It’s crazy how long it took them to have him finally come off the bench.

[flow]

If have no problem holding onto Hayes next season. But I would hope that Weaver's approach this offseason is to prioritize upgrading the PG position while presuming Hayes to be an end-of-bench player going into the season. If Hayes comes out on fire and proves otherwise, then great - yet another reason to release Cojo, who will unquestionably have signed his gift player option.

EDIT:

And to GreekAlex's point above, there's really no excuse at this point for not sending him to the G-League to see if at least one of a shooter, scorer or play-maker emerges from him. Troy, the world already knows you blew the pick, don't worry about it.

[Cowology]

Hayes has looked solid at times but there is no question his lack of scoring ability is a major problem. That's nothing new.

He's really got 2 options; get better at finishing so he can at least be a Rubio/Rondo type or turn himself into a 3&D player. I personally think the latter is his best bet right now; park himself in the corner and work on fixing that broken shot. I don't personally have a ton of faith in it happening and I've said I don't think I'd pick up his option, but I'm not ready to completely write him off just yet. I'd guess he's likely got another year or maybe even two with some team taking a flyer on him, but if he can't figure it out by then he'll be out of the league.

[edmunder_prc]

Last night against the Raptors he played very poorly, scoring 0 points.

He directly lead to TOs trying to make an extra pass even though he was wide open because he cant shoot and he knows he cant shoot. That leads to weird lineups where the Pistons have to play with 1 fewer guy on offense.

Some guys like Marcus Smart are streaky shooters but at least the other team has to guard him, but the Raptors barely had a guy in his area once he passed the ball he doesnt any defenders.

His offense is so bad, to balance it out he would need to have All-NBA type defense, passing, rebounding, etc and he doesnt.

[mattao313]

Hayes has looked solid at times but there is no question his lack of scoring ability is a major problem. That's nothing new.

He's really got 2 options; get better at finishing so he can at least be a Rubio/Rondo type or turn himself into a 3&D player. I personally think the latter is his best bet right now; park himself in the corner and work on fixing that broken shot. I don't personally have a ton of faith in it happening and I've said I don't think I'd pick up his option, but I'm not ready to completely write him off just yet. I'd guess he's likely got another year or maybe even two with some team taking a flyer on him, but if he can't figure it out by then he'll be out of the league.

Even with the rondo and Rubio comparison they are really good ball handlers who can handle in traffic and probe in the pnr and dribble underneath the goal Nash style. Hayes can not do this once a little pressure comes he's passing it to the nearest guy. Like you said his best bet in a 3nd guy but even if he camped in the corner and shot 35% I'm not sure if even then he's a plus on the court. He's got solid defense but not good enough to be a stopper.

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[GreekAlex]

I highly doubt he’d put up numbers or be as impactful as Saben Lee in the g league but it’s worth seeing what happens.

Even if you’re a believer that he’s still young and can turn the corner, do you see signs or anything that is even mildly trending in a positive direction?

[whitehops]

Last night against the Raptors he played very poorly, scoring 0 points.

He directly lead to TOs trying to make an extra pass even though he was wide open because he cant shoot and he knows he cant shoot. That leads to weird lineups where the Pistons have to play with 1 fewer guy on offense.

Some guys like Marcus Smart are streaky shooters but at least the other team has to guard him, but the Raptors barely had a guy in his area once he passed the ball he doesnt any defenders.

His offense is so bad, to balance it out he would need to have All-NBA type defense, passing, rebounding, etc and he doesnt.

he had a hip injury last year man, give him time.

[GreekAlex]

Last night against the Raptors he played very poorly, scoring 0 points.

He directly lead to TOs trying to make an extra pass even though he was wide open because he cant shoot and he knows he cant shoot. That leads to weird lineups where the Pistons have to play with 1 fewer guy on offense.

Some guys like Marcus Smart are streaky shooters but at least the other team has to guard him, but the Raptors barely had a guy in his area once he passed the ball he doesnt any defenders.

His offense is so bad, to balance it out he would need to have All-NBA type defense, passing, rebounding, etc and he doesnt.

he had a hip injury last year man, give him time.

I’m down to give him time. The pick was made the team option was picked up. We have no choice.

But where do you draw the line? Why can he get his confidence up in the g league?

If he looks this lame against g league competition, then it’s time to cut bait imo.

[bstein14]

Last night against the Raptors he played very poorly, scoring 0 points.

He directly lead to TOs trying to make an extra pass even though he was wide open because he cant shoot and he knows he cant shoot. That leads to weird lineups where the Pistons have to play with 1 fewer guy on offense.

Some guys like Marcus Smart are streaky shooters but at least the other team has to guard him, but the Raptors barely had a guy in his area once he passed the ball he doesnt any defenders.

His offense is so bad, to balance it out he would need to have All-NBA type defense, passing, rebounding, etc and he doesnt.

he had a hip injury last year man, give him time.

I’m down to give him time. The pick was made the team option was picked up. We have no choice.

But where do you draw the line? Why can he get his confidence up in the g league?

If he looks this lame against g league competition, then it’s time to cut bait imo.

Weaver will have to decide by early October whether or not to pick up Killian's 4th year $7.414 million option.

In the Summer of 2023, we could have just Bey, Cade, Stewart and our 2022 & 2023 first round picks on our salary cap if we don't pick up other options and don't extend Grant.

Literally could be Stewart, Bey Cade and two more top draft picks and $90+ million in cap space in 15 months from now.

[Billl]

I highly doubt he’d put up numbers or be as impactful as Saben Lee in the g league but it’s worth seeing what happens.

Even if you’re a believer that he’s still young and can turn the corner, do you see signs or anything that is even mildly trending in a positive direction?

His defense is obviously improved. That's what he said he really put the work in on this summer. And most people said "What the hell?!? Guy can't shoot and he's spending all summer working on D?"

His assists were up in Feb, but we all know he can pass. Getting 5 assists in 20minutes off the bench would be awesome from a backup pg.

His 3 point shot actually looked reasonable to start the year. He was leading the team while everyone else was slumping. After he hurt his hand though, he hasn't been able to throw it in the ocean.

Honestly, it's not looking good for him. By all reports, he's a pretty solid worker though, so I wouldn't be shocked if he put in a ton of work over the summer on his jumper and got back to mid to high 30s from 3. That would probably be enough to buy him another year in the rotation to try to work on other things. Not really they kind of thing you want to be saying about a recent lotto pick, but that's where we are.

[whitehops]

I’m down to give him time. The pick was made the team option was picked up. We have no choice.

But where do you draw the line? Why can he get his confidence up in the g league?

If he looks this lame against g league competition, then it’s time to cut bait imo.

sorry should've added the green font on my post.

if i was weaver i'd decline his fourth year option (has to be done by this october). that gives him a third year to show improvement and we can sign him as a UFA.

[bstein14]

This summer/offseason is huge for Killian. Needs to work on all the offensive skills. Hopefully he leads the young summer league team as the "vet" much better than we saw from Sekou.

[vege]

I would rather have cap space than pick up his option. If we add another guard, where is he going to get minutes? I doubt we will tank again, and I am 100% sure CoJo would get minutes over him.

Hayes had his chance, he is not good enough to waste 3 years trying to develop him, he didn't do anything to be worth that, we should just move on.

[Piston Pete]

This summer/offseason is huge for Killian. Needs to work on all the offensive skills. Hopefully he leads the young summer league team as the "vet" much better than we saw from Sekou.

Like Sekou, Hayes might also be out of the league in 2-3 years time.