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I thought this deserved its own thread. Pistons called about Jalen Brunson but the Mavs didn't want to have serious discussions and pretty much said only if you're giving up Cade.

It feels like Brunson will likely be our summer 2022 FA target, unless we end up in a position where Ivey is the best player available at our pick in the draft. Most of the top 5 looks like bigs with the exception of Ivey there in the 4/5 spot somewhere most likely.

Brunson's a 4th year 6'1" out of Villanova (same as Bey, but Bey got to Nova just after Brunson left). He's 25 years old.

Brunson has an above league average TS% of 57.1%, shot the three ball at 40% last season but just 35% this season. He is hitting 47% of his corner threes this season and he's hitting Averages 16 PPG and 5.4 APG with a better than 3:1 assist to TO ratio. He's actually a great mid range shooter as well shooting over 50% from 10-16 ft.

He seemingly has a game that would compliment very well next to Cade. He's someone who can play with the ball in or out of his hands. Advanced metrics show his defensive rating as being better than anyone on our team.... although most of the Mavs are rated as better than anyone on our team as we're a poor defensive team. (Dallas has the 5th rated defense and Detroit has the 26th rated defense).

Brunson is seemingly one of those players who could just be entering his prime and is poised to take another step forward given a bigger role. For sure the type of player that could step up into becoming an all-star or borderline all-star.... someone in the conversation. He's much more efficient than teammate Tim Hardaway Jr.

That said, how much do we offer him this summer? Will Dallas match any amount? I'd imagine we'd have to go higher than $80 million over 4 years.

It probably means we'll try.

All indications are that the Mavs and Brunson have a mutual interest in resigning though. This isn't a Grant situation where we might be able to get him by bidding the same- we'd need to overpay.

I’d rather go after a bigger guard so opposing teams would have to pick the mismatch. If we get a guy who’s 6’1, Cade will be guarded by the bigger guard.

ComboGuardCity wrote:I’d rather go after a bigger guard so opposing teams would have to pick the mismatch. If we get a guy who’s 6’1, Cade will be guarded by the bigger guard.

Paired with Hayes, Cade is always guarded by the better defender. Paired with CoJo, Cade is always guarded by the better defender and usually the bigger guard as well if he defends better.

Paired with Brunson teams might actually but the better defender on Brunson if they are wanting to stop the hot hand. I think there would be plenty of nights where Brunson would be scoring 20+ and Cade doing more distributing.

The other good thing about Brunson is he isn't just all threes. Only about 3 attempts per game out of his 12 (or 25%) come from deep so he's a more versatile player than just someone catching a shooting from distance.

That said, I get the appeal of having two big combo type guards that can both do it all and shoot over the defense because then you'll often have times where one of them has a smaller guy that's easier to shoot over. So I get what you're saying, but thinking the most important this is pairing Cade with someone who can catch and shoot but also create as bit as well for himself and for teammates. Could really benefit Cade's development next year versus playing with someone like Hayes who is super limited offensively.

Anfernee Simons leads the way for Portland today with 30 and 8 as they beat the Knicks. Portland traded away all their expensive "talent" and they've won two straight over the Lakers and Knicks and Simons looks like he's ready to be a lead guy on the team.

Simons and Brunson, both restricted.... should be at the top of our FA targets assuming Ayton and Bridges are getting max deals from Phoenix and Charlotte.

The fact that Phoenix was rumored to be discussing an Ayton for Sabonis trade prior to the deadline has me still sticking they're on the fence about giving Ayton a MAX deal... but likely having that #1 record and not wanting to mess up with the team chemistry was too important versus trying to trade for a major swap of players where one (Sabonis) is locked into a cheaper deal for a few seasons.

He's worth 20mil and he fits great. A quick guard that can get into the paint and actually finish there and kick out and playmake. We don't have anyone on the team with that skillset.

I'm one of the few that don't like Cade at PG rather have him be a secondary playmaker and focus on scoring and spot up shooting which is his best skill.

I wouldn't want to go over 22mil a year tho. If he doesn't want to come on a reasonable contract I'm more than ok to back out.

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bstein14 wrote:
Simons and Brunson, both restricted.... should be at the top of our FA targets assuming Ayton and Bridges are getting max deals from Phoenix and Charlotte.

Brunson is unrestricted

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With the moves Portland made at the deadline, I don’t think there’s any way they don’t match any offer made for Simons. I don’t think he’s a realistic target anymore.

Brunson is good. He’s an UFA. But like CGC said already, I like the idea of finding a bigger-bodied G to pair next to Cade. We’d create a pick-your-poison dilemma for our opponents. But Brunson might be the safest option if we decide to make a FA splash at PG.

Sexton is more scorer than PG and he’s a RFA. He’s a good shooter and young. He’d be coming off an injury, so we might be able to get him for a slight discount — assuming the Cavs don’t match, that is.

Duane Washington (Pacers) is a sleeper guy nobody seems to be talking about - also a RFA. He’s a little bigger than Brunson or Sexton (6’3”), and also more of a combo guard. He’d be a good guy to steal from the Pacers. Undrafted guy - so the cap gurus will have to advise….are the Pacers limited in what they can offer him?

bstein14 wrote:
Simons and Brunson, both restricted....

You talked about Dallas matching, and now Brunson being restricted. Brunson is Unrestricted.

For what we know, like said before, in another thread, Brunson and Dallas have a mutual interest, and the answer Dallas gave to Detroit, making fun of Weaver, saying they like Cade, when Weaver inquired about Brunson, indicates that.

However, Weaver have a lot of money to spend, and while they're a top 5 team in the West, imo, they're the 7th best team there, at best, they're only 5th because of Westbrook (LAL offseason was a complete disaster) and both stars from the Clippers being out, they're not contenders.

Would Cuban spend a lot of money in a borderline playoff team? If he let Brunson go, would that lead to Luka leaving eventually, they don't have financial flexibility to go after other players and they don't have assets to make trades.

What I mean is, unless, by the time of free agency, Weaver have new information, that we don't have, he will throw big money at Brunson. If the offer is similar, I believe Brunson will stay in Dallas, but will Dallas be in position to overpay for Brunson?

2 important things imo, I am not sure if Brunson could've signed an extension, but Dallas just extended DFS a day or 2 ago and they didn't extend Brunson.

Second thing is, Dallas might know they're at risk of losing Brunson, and they went and acquired another guard, Dinwiddie. So maybe we have a chance to get him?

Even tho he is UFA, it will be an overpay, so expect a disgusting contract.

I don't care what the numbers say, he is a bad defender, he developed into a very good player tho, so I am not against us going after him.

Considering how we made a pretty enthusiastic bid for Fred VanVleet, I will believe we will try to go for guys like Brunson and the Simons of the world to shore up our flagging PG position considering we don't have a starting level PG at the moment

1) Do we WANT to spend big this offseason? We’re a bottom-5 team and it might be too early to spend like we’re ready to take the next step.

2) Would we be better off staying frugal and looking to spend in the 2023 offseason? Maybe look to make a minor signing or two (small, cheap deal types), but save most of our cap for 2023 (when Grant and a few others come off our books).

Piston Pete wrote:1) Do we WANT to spend big this offseason? We’re a bottom-5 team and it might be too early to spend like we’re ready to take the next step.

2) Would we be better off staying frugal and looking to spend in the 2023 offseason? Maybe look to make a minor signing or two (small, cheap deal types), but save most of our cap for 2023 (when Grant and a few others come off our books).

Grant will be extended, he won't come off our books lol.

We can't continue to spend money in guys like Mason Plumlee and Kelly Olynyk, even if it's expensive, I hope we get someone good, we need to put talent around Cade.

Im on on board with going after Brunson. Has improved since coming into the league, decent playmaker, good 3pt shooter ect...

Simons has been playing out of his mind since Lillard went down. I don't see any conceivable way they don't match any offer he gets.

vege wrote:

vege wrote:Second thing is, Dallas might know they're at risk of losing Brunson, and they went and acquired another guard, Dinwiddie. So maybe we have a chance to get him?

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That’s an awfully expensive insurance policy if that was really part of their reasoning.

My god the Mavs are an example of what not to do when building around a superstar. They got him extended, but it sure looks like they’ll lose him after or during that contract. Yikes.

Dallas can’t afford Brunson tho with the extension of DFS they already at 150 million and that’s without signing Brunson

Snakebites wrote:

vege wrote:

vege wrote:Second thing is, Dallas might know they're at risk of losing Brunson, and they went and acquired another guard, Dinwiddie. So maybe we have a chance to get him?

Read on Twitter

That’s an awfully expensive insurance policy if that was really part of their reasoning.

My god the Mavs are an example of what not to do when building around a superstar. They got him extended, but it sure looks like they’ll lose him after or during that contract. Yikes.

That's why I said previously, what Weaver does now, is going to cement his legacy. Cade has a real possibility of becoming that player to build around long term, and Holy crap you don't want it turning out like whats happened in Dallas.

Its almost a blessing Cade got hurt before preseason, had a rough start, team didn't move Grant before the season, e.t.c. a chance to add even more talent is a big deal. Rough as hell for fans, but I'm hopeful the Pistons stay at the bottom now, guaranteeing a top 5 pick(hopefully top 3)

So say we get Brunson in free agency and get a top five pick and resign Bagley is that our offseason???

aad wrote:So say we get Brunson in free agency and get a top five pick and resign Bagley is that our offseason???

If we win the lottery again, this is our financial situation (if my math is correct)

I assume we will decline Garza's option, and fulfill Weaver's fetish, waving Livers (yay more dead money)

Jerami Grant PF $20,955,000
Kelly Olynyk PF $12,804,878
Cade Cunningham PG $10,552,800
Killian Hayes PG $5,837,760
Hamidou Diallo SG $5,200,000
Cory Joseph PG $5,155,000
Isaiah Stewart C $3,433,320
Frank Jackson PG $3,150,000
Saddiq Bey SG $2,959,080
Saben Lee PG $1,752,638


Dead Cap
DeAndre Jordan C $7,827,907
Dewayne Dedmon C $2,866,667
Zhaire Smith SG $1,068,200
Isaiah Livers PF $1,563,518

Cap Holdings
Marvin Bagley PF $7,381,154
#1 pick $9,014,800

Jalen Brunson PG $20,000,000 (if I am not mistaken his max start at around 30 million, we could decline Frank Jackson and Hamidou Diallo options and give Brunson a contract starting at around 28 million - please don't do that Weaver)

Room Exception $5,285,000

But yes, after that, we're done. With the room exception we would have 14 players under contract, we could sign someone else for the minimum, or sign a 2nd round pick, or keep one of Livers or Garza (I doubt we bring either back considering our lack of roster spots)

Chet Holmgren(?)/ Isaiah Stewart / Kelly Olynyk
Jerami Grant / Marvin Bagley /
Saddiq Bey / Hamidou Diallo /
Cade Cunningham / Cory Joseph / Frank Jackson
Jalen Brunson / Killian Hayes / Saben Lee

Kelly Olynyk would be a 3rd stringer, being paid 13 million, that's why I wanted him gone so badly while most people wanted grant gone. If we go for Smith or Banchero, I could see Grant traded during the draft or Bey moved to the bench I guess with Grant starting at SF.

The Mavs are likely willing to pay him 20 million.