S&T deals for Ayton

[LaSheed]

I can't believe people are calling Ayton a mere rim runner and soft. His game is so much more complex with all sorts of offensive moves. Sure, he's not handling it at the top of the key and slashing to the hole, but my goodness, there is no better fit in Detroit than Ayton, and just how well he compliments both Beef Stew and Grant is staggering. He shouldn't be your alpha, but we have that player already.

Lol cmon. I like Ayton and would still like to have him. The dude is soft lol

[bstein14]

Ayton is for sure a top 60 player in this league... possibly top 50.... and he's 23 years old. If you think most teams have/should have 2 max guys he's a max player in this league.

We have too many guys that are good 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th guys on a team we need more talent in the top 3 guys.

We're in good shape if Bey/Grant are our 4th and 5th best players and we've got Cade as a top 2 guy.... we just need two more top 3 guys on our team. Forget the 6th/7th/8th guy talent and add one of those top 3 guys in this draft and on in FA this year and we're positioned to take a big jump forward.

[tmorgan]

Ayton is for sure a top 60 player in this league... possibly top 50.... and he's 23 years old. If you think most teams have/should have 2 max guys he's a max player in this league.

We have too many guys that are good 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th guys on a team we need more talent in the top 3 guys.

We're in good shape if Bey/Grant are our 4th and 5th best players and we've got Cade as a top 2 guy.... we just need two more top 3 guys on our team. Forget the 6th/7th/8th guy talent and add one of those top 3 guys in this draft and on in FA this year and we're positioned to take a big jump forward.

Now this I agree with. Just not sure Ayton is the right target. Wouldn’t hate it, though.

I could definitely live with going into next year starting Cade/Sharpe/x stopgap/Chet/Ayton. (from other thread)

[Cowology]

Ayton is definitely more than just a rim runner, but I don't think you want him as your 2nd best player either. He is probably 3rd or 4th best on a championship team, which works well for him in Phx with Paul/Booker ahead of him.

Then the question becomes... can you afford to pay your 3rd/4th best player a Max contract? Can your team support that many max contracts? Most teams can't. Rookie contracts sorta push that problem down the road, but eventually you still need to deal with it and probably right about the time your team is peaking.

C is such a weird position. Embiid/Jokic are dominant and if you have an MVP caliber guy like that in the middle you are in pretty good shape but overall C's are the least impactful position at the moment. It's a perimeter players league. All of that makes maxing Ayton a very mixed proposition. He's clearly not in that elite tier, but he is very good and C is probably going to be the hardest position to upgrade.

I kinda vacillate on this one. I wouldn't be upset if we offered the max, but I won't be upset when Phx keeps him either. He's clearly a talent upgrade, but I'm not 100% convinced that's where I want to allocate my resources.

[Manocad]

Ayton is definitely more than just a rim runner, but I don't think you want him as your 2nd best player either. He is probably 3rd or 4th best on a championship team, which works well for him in Phx with Paul/Booker ahead of him.

Then the question becomes... can you afford to pay your 3rd/4th best player a Max contract? Can your team support that many max contracts? Most teams can't. Rookie contracts sorta push that problem down the road, but eventually you still need to deal with it and probably right about the time your team is peaking.

C is such a weird position. Embiid/Jokic are dominant and if you have an MVP caliber guy like that in the middle you are in pretty good shape but overall C's are the least impactful position at the moment. It's a perimeter players league. All of that makes maxing Ayton a very mixed proposition. He's clearly not in that elite tier, but he is very good and C is probably going to be the hardest position to upgrade.

I kinda vacillate on this one. I wouldn't be upset if we offered the max, but I won't be upset when Phx keeps him either. He's clearly a talent upgrade, but I'm not 100% convinced that's where I want to allocate my resources.

Pretty much how I see it, although I think Ayton could be a solid 3rd option; I think he's better than his numbers now because he has two pretty prolific scorers in Booker and CP3 ahead of him and Bridges right behind him at 14 PPG. I'm also torn on whether $32 million/year on Ayton is the right way to spend that $32 million given where the team is at, but the team may arrive at a point where he's the best option. Which obviously depends on where the draft pick lands, a Grant trade, and FA moves.

Hypothetically let's say they trade Grant and get a decent scoring guard in return (either in the trade or as a draft pick) then draft one of the PF's. So now you've got Cade, a decent scoring guard, Bey at SF, the drafted PF--who you'd hope will be a mid to high performer--and Stew. At that point is it worth $32 million to sign Ayton and move Stew to the bench? The starting five would most definitely be improved and would have an average age of what--21-22?

Like I've said before, I think there's too much focus on the salary cap. Let's say the lineup I just described actually does manifest itself and the team loses in the 2nd round of the playoffs in 6-7 games, i.e. clearly shows the potential to be a championship contender with the expected growth of the young players, so it makes sense to keep them together. Does anyone really care if Gores has to go into the luxury tax to keep them together? And why wouldn't he? Past history has shown that if the Pistons are a real playoff team (not the squeaking in as a #8 seed, i.e. the Blake years) then games sell out, merchandise sales go up, TV money goes up...the team WILL make money even if they exceed the cap; there are multiple of examples around the league to support that logic.

Ultimately my hope is that the organization puts the BEST team together between this offseason and next in order to be ready for a championship run in 2023-24 (or sooner); I don't think the cost moving forward needs to be as big a concern as some people make it out to be. The days of 5+ years of championship windows are gone; it's pretty much 2-4 years then if multiple young players explode they have to get paid, either by you or someone else, so you either pay them or maybe trade one away and reload as best you can. So take the best shot you can while the gettin's good and worry about later...later.

[DBC10]

Ayton is definitely more than just a rim runner, but I don't think you want him as your 2nd best player either. He is probably 3rd or 4th best on a championship team, which works well for him in Phx with Paul/Booker ahead of him.

Then the question becomes... can you afford to pay your 3rd/4th best player a Max contract? Can your team support that many max contracts? Most teams can't. Rookie contracts sorta push that problem down the road, but eventually you still need to deal with it and probably right about the time your team is peaking.

C is such a weird position. Embiid/Jokic are dominant and if you have an MVP caliber guy like that in the middle you are in pretty good shape but overall C's are the least impactful position at the moment. It's a perimeter players league. All of that makes maxing Ayton a very mixed proposition. He's clearly not in that elite tier, but he is very good and C is probably going to be the hardest position to upgrade.

I kinda vacillate on this one. I wouldn't be upset if we offered the max, but I won't be upset when Phx keeps him either. He's clearly a talent upgrade, but I'm not 100% convinced that's where I want to allocate my resources.

After watching the series against the Mavs, I think I'm slightly more out on Ayton than I was originally in. He just seems like he drifts away a bit too much of the game at times. And you would think with the Mavs going all in on every one being a shooter in each position by going with Kleber at the center spot, that Ayton would feast and overwhelm. But he hasn't really done that while last night's game was fine. It's clear the coaching staff and CP3 don't want to give him the ball to initiate high post/pinch post actions as much and he doesn't really have great hands to initiate things like that. It's weird, he's pretty good at catching those quick rim runner balls and pocket passes but kinda fumbles it when it's a post action

[edmunder_prc]

Ayton not looking good in game 7 against the Mavs so far, close to half time.

Looks weak, unskilled, afraid, etc. Not a max player. Would be better with Jerami Grant out there playing center for the Suns at the moment.

[buzzkilloton]

I'm out on Brunson and Ayton. I'll spend the money next offseason.

[bjones521]

I'm out on Brunson and Ayton. I'll spend the money next offseason.

I said this earlier in the post. Im not paying anyone that is letting Kleber and Finney Smith guard him. They are switching on to him and he's not punishing them. Is Ayton even playing in game 7??

[buzzkilloton]

I'm out on Brunson and Ayton. I'll spend the money next offseason.

I said this earlier in the post. Im not paying anyone that is letting Kleber and Finney Smith guard him. They are switching on to him and he's not punishing them. Is Ayton even playing in game 7??

Suns arent playing gaming 7

Like Edwards said in a recent article letting Weaver go into next offseason in a better free agent class with a chance to work some magic could work out very well. Not saying hes going to pull a top tier free agent but another Grant type steal could happen. No need to overpay anyone.

[LaSheed]

I've cooled off on both as well but now in the if the price is right.

[Jsindto]

I'm out on Brunson and Ayton. I'll spend the money next offseason.

I said this earlier in the post. Im not paying anyone that is letting Kleber and Finney Smith guard him. They are switching on to him and he's not punishing them. Is Ayton even playing in game 7??

Suns arent playing gaming 7

Like Edwards said in a recent article letting Weaver go into next offseason in a better free agent class with a chance to work some magic could work out very well. Not saying hes going to pull a top tier free agent but another Grant type steal could happen. No need to overpay anyone.

Maybe just as importantly as having the cap space for FA next year is maintaining the flexibility for trades as well. If you pick up a big money FA, there's less flexibility for in season trades. I think that's where I'm at too, one final year of mediocrity before they are back to pushing in for the playoffs.

I suppose if you go after a good player at a reasonable contract and just happen to get him when people don't expect it, like Jerami Grant, then sure. Like if somehow they offered Brunson 4 years 80 million and it actually got him, then that's good by me. But I wouldn't be offering more than market value like you typically need to do to get a FA. Like offering 4 years 100 million. If 4 for 80 doesn't get him, so be it. If it does, then great because it's a reasonable contract.

[bstein14]

If he plays a big role in Dallas getting to the Finals this year, Brunson might get paid more than Ayton this summer.

[bstein14]

There is a 3 team draft day deal that makes sense between Dallas, Detroit, and Portland if Portland lands the #6 or #7 pick.

Detroit trades: Grant + #46 to Portland
Portland trades: #6 or #7 to Detroit
Dallas trades: Tim Hardaway to Detroit and #26 to Portland

Dallas pays Brunson the big bucks and used #26 to clear Tim Hardaway's contract off the books.

Still not sure if its a trade good enough to get Portland to pull the trigger with just Grant, #26, and #46 for #6 or #7.

[buzzkilloton]

There is a 3 team draft day deal that makes sense between Dallas, Detroit, and Portland if Portland lands the #6 or #7 pick.

Detroit trades: Grant + #46 to Portland
Portland trades: #6 or #7 to Detroit
Dallas trades: Tim Hardaway to Detroit and #26 to Portland

Dallas pays Brunson the big bucks and used #26 to clear Tim Hardaway's contract off the books.

Still not sure if its a trade good enough to get Portland to pull the trigger with just Grant, #26, and #46 for #6 or #7.

Like the Blazers fan that was just over here said no way there shipping that pick for Grant. Thats just fans on our end talking about it lol

[MotownMadness]

There is a 3 team draft day deal that makes sense between Dallas, Detroit, and Portland if Portland lands the #6 or #7 pick.

Detroit trades: Grant + #46 to Portland
Portland trades: #6 or #7 to Detroit
Dallas trades: Tim Hardaway to Detroit and #26 to Portland

Dallas pays Brunson the big bucks and used #26 to clear Tim Hardaway's contract off the books.

Still not sure if its a trade good enough to get Portland to pull the trigger with just Grant, #26, and #46 for #6 or #7.

Like the Blazers fan that was just over here said no way there shipping that pick for Grant. Thats just fans on our end talking about it lol

Yeah when making trade proposals always put yourself on the other sides line of thought.

How pissed you would be if your team traded that valuable of a pick after suffering a down year for a expiring Grant?

[DNice68]

I've cooled off on both as well but now in the if the price is right.

For the right price I’m in on Ayton more than Brunson. It’s not like he get’s a lot of touches in Phoenix, and he would really want to prove he’s the man. Plus he still has the upside at 24. The same knock’s on him were put on a young Robert Parrish before he went to Boston. For the right price, hell yes!

[Pharaoh]

There is a 3 team draft day deal that makes sense between Dallas, Detroit, and Portland if Portland lands the #6 or #7 pick.

Detroit trades: Grant + #46 to Portland
Portland trades: #6 or #7 to Detroit
Dallas trades: Tim Hardaway to Detroit and #26 to Portland

Dallas pays Brunson the big bucks and used #26 to clear Tim Hardaway's contract off the books.

Still not sure if its a trade good enough to get Portland to pull the trigger with just Grant, #26, and #46 for #6 or #7.

There is no chance Portland are trading #6 or #7 for Grant and late picks.


Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM Forums mobile app

[MotownMadness]

I'll pay Ayton in a Grant sign and trade if Phoenix wont pay him but dont want to lose him for nothing. Feels like he could become a possibility a little bit now though at least.

[DBC10]

I've cooled off on both as well but now in the if the price is right.

Same here. The Suns just had a massive choke job not seen since 2016 OKC? Ayton will have max offers follow him at the start of free agency but there's no way I'm 100% convinced he's who we should spend the money on. No way after watching that horrid game live