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We don't have any future draft assets. We actually owe a future first round pick to OKC. And we've traded away most of our future 2nds as well.

Other rebuilding teams have lots of extra first rounders.

#1. OKC obviously is loaded up with tons of extra picks.
#2 Orlando has the Bulls 23 first rounder, the Nuggets 25 first rounder (Gordon Trade), and a bunch of extra 2nd rounders coming in.
#3 Houston has the unprotected Nets pick this year, Bucks pick this year, and overall 6 or 7 extra first round picks the next few years thank to the Harden trade.
#4 Spurs have gone into rebuild mode as well and have 4 extra 1st rounders including trading for Toronto's first this season.
#5 Pacers got the Cavs first this year for LaVert as well as several extra 2nd rounders coming in versus what's going out.

Really the only other bottom 7 team is the Kings, who have several more 2nds coming in than going out. But at least they aren't short a future first like us.

Overall, we're the rebuilding team with the least amount of draft capital.

How do you rectify this in your opinion? Trade down in the draft and/or trade Grant?

While that is true... I'm not sure how much it actually matters. How likely are Late 1st round picks to turn into rotation players? Teams like the Spurs have drafted well in every position (Murray @ 29th proved it again), but that's not the norm. I suppose having more helps in the sense that if you draft 4 that gives you more chances to hit on 1 of them, but it's still mostly about the lottery. Quality over quantity.

And there is a trade-off here; Houston for example is saddled with the salaries of Wall/Gordon and they still aren't really in a better position than us despite having extra picks. We have cap flexibility. Grant is an asset that could potentially be turned into a pick IF we wanted to. We could absorb salary from another team in exchange for picks IF we wanted to.

I'm not going to say we're definitely better or worse than anybody because honestly there is just waaay too many factors and it's a very fluid situation that can change quickly. I don't think our lack of additional draft capital is a particular problem at the moment either. But we do need to hit with the pick we actually have this year.

reanimator wrote:How do you rectify this in your opinion? Trade down in the draft and/or trade Grant?

All the other teams have made moves to get picks. For Houston it was easy because they had a big time asset like Harden. OKC has used cap space to get picks. Orlando had Vucevic and Gordon they were able to get 3 first rounders for. San Antonio has traded away some players for picks as well.

I agree that it may not matter, if he really hit the right players on our picks... or if we get lucky in the lottery back to back years... but having multiple picks is good for a lot of reasons obviously.

We were somewhat in a hole asset wise because Drummond was our Max all-star guy and he had no value around the league. Blake was a guy we gave up a bunch of assets for (Clippers got two firsts for Tobias Harris) and we ended up getting nothing out of him except a buyout where he still ate up most of our cap space. So we just really didn't have the pieces to start kick start the rebuild like even Orlando had moving on from Vucevic and Gordon.

Cowology wrote:
And there is a trade-off here; Houston for example is saddled with the salaries of Wall/Gordon and they still aren't really in a better position than us despite having extra picks. We have cap flexibility. Grant is an asset that could potentially be turned into a pick IF we wanted to. We could absorb salary from another team in exchange for picks IF we wanted to.

I think this becomes a question of timeline of your young star(s) and is your city attractive to FAs. If the dead salary expires as my young star hits his prime and I know big target FAs won't come then I may prefer the Houston way.

Weaver tore it down.

But he did so in a way that he didn’t look for future draft capital.

Basic steps for typical rebuilds:
1) Clear cap
2) Trade away vets
3) Look to acquire future picks

The pick that conveys to OKC will be after their rebuild is done so I don't see your point there. It's a Pistons asset as long as it's in the lottery. I think it was worth it to get Stewart. Stewart for a future #16th-#18th overall or two 2nds or at worst #10 in 2027? Yeah, I'd do that trade again.
The 2nds? Who cares? Most 2nds are virtually useless in the NBA and they can be reacquired fairly easily (see DeAndre Jordan trade). Never seen a board that cares so much about 2nd round picks, this isn't the NHL or NFL where 2nds are premium assets. 2nds in the NBA are basically the equivalent of a 5th-7th round pick in those sports.

Furthermore, they already have their young core. Won the Cade lottery (which automatically gives them a leg up on the other rebuilding teams), Bey, Stewart, top 5-7 pick, maybe Hayes, maybe Bagley, Maybe Diallo, then you have Grant as a core guy or trade asset so they'll pretty much have their fill of young core players after this draft. The rest of the roster will be filled out through free agency and trade.
I don't see the issue here tbh.

I will say though that OKC has really set themselves up well from an asset standpoint. Of course they have to hit on their picks and/or utilize their extra draft capital to its full value but in a general sense, Presti set his team up for future success quite well.

bstein14 wrote:We don't have any future draft assets. We actually owe a future first round pick to OKC. And we've traded away most of our future 2nds as well.

Other rebuilding teams have lots of extra first rounders.

#1. OKC obviously is loaded up with tons of extra picks.
#2 Orlando has the Bulls 23 first rounder, the Nuggets 25 first rounder (Gordon Trade), and a bunch of extra 2nd rounders coming in.
#3 Houston has the unprotected Nets pick this year, Bucks pick this year, and overall 6 or 7 extra first round picks the next few years thank to the Harden trade.
#4 Spurs have gone into rebuild mode as well and have 4 extra 1st rounders including trading for Toronto's first this season.
#5 Pacers got the Cavs first this year for LaVert as well as several extra 2nd rounders coming in versus what's going out.

Really the only other bottom 7 team is the Kings, who have several more 2nds coming in than going out. But at least they aren't short a future first like us.

Overall, we're the rebuilding team with the least amount of draft capital.

With all that said I wouldn't trade places with ANY of their situations, except MAYBE OKC and that's debatable.

By the way, alot of future picks and "warchests" are more times than not conversation pieces more than anything. In 2020 we went into the draft with one draft pick in the first round but ended up drafting 3 players in the first. Having the ability to get an immediate draft pick works just as good as having them in storage.

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Echo NYPiston's sentiment. The protections on that 1st are such that if we are unfortunately bad enough to need a high 1st that we have it (the pick conveys to 2nds) and if we are trending upward then the 1st won't be as valuable anyway.

People see "OKC has our 1st" and freak out because they don't read the fine print. And in this case the fine print really matters.

It's definitely true that when we stripped the cupboards it left a major deficit in terms of total assets. Winning the Lottery partially off-set that, but it's part of why I've continued to advocate in favor of moves that bring back incremental value. And yeah, I'm still in favor of trying to find value players as opposed to overpaying for a single player. Because I do want to see us build back up our overall stockpile of assets & value as opposed to trying to make a quick push for competitive status.

This is really a different conversation so I don't want to derail this thread. It's already being discussed elsewhere. But it's tangential to how we approach a rebuild.

I will add that a big reason we don't have future draft capital is because previous regimes traded away firsts, drafted badly and made even worse trades / signings. All of which left our cupboards bare.

When SVG left our roster was completely devoid of tradeable assets and latent with massively overpaid players.

NYPiston wrote:The pick that conveys to OKC will be after their rebuild is done so I don't see your point there. It's a Pistons asset as long as it's in the lottery. I think it was worth it to get Stewart. Stewart for a future #16th overall or two 2nds? Yeah, I'd do that trade again.
The 2nds? Who cares? Most 2nds are virtually useless in the NBA and they can be reacquired fairly easily (see DeAndre Jordan trade). Never seen a board that cares so much about 2nd round picks, this isn't the NHL or NFL where 2nds are premium assets. 2nds in the NBA are basically the equivalent of a 5th-7th round pick in those sports.

Furthermore, they already have their young core. Won the Cade lottery (which automatically gives them a leg up on the other rebuilding teams), Bey, Stewart, top 5-7 pick, maybe Hayes, maybe Bagley, Maybe Diallo, then you have Grant as a core guy or trade asset so they'll pretty much have their fill of young core players after this draft. The rest of the roster will be filled out through free agency and trade.
I don't see the issue here tbh.

I will say though that OKC has really set themselves up well from an asset standpoint. Of course they have to hit on their picks and/or utilize their extra draft capital to its full value but in a general sense, Presti set his team up for future success quite well.

As far as the first round pick, its still a first round pick we're missing eventually.
2023 Top 18 protected (Not likely unless we finish 6th or better in the East next season) Cade's 2nd season
2024 Top 18 protected (If things go well for us, we give the pick to OKC this year) Cade's 3rd season
2025 Top 13 protected (It would almost certainly go to OKC here if it hasn't yet by this time.) Cade's 4th season

As far as the 2nd round picks, being a bad team like we are they certainly have value. SA was able to trade our first rounder (Pick #31 or #32 most likely at the time of the trade) to Toronto for a bench vet to get Toronto's first round pick this season. So a bench vet and pick #32 moved San Antonio into the a draft area likely just outside the lottery in the 15/16/17 pick range.

Invictus88 wrote:Echo NYPiston's sentiment. The protections on that 1st are such that if we are unfortunately bad enough to need a high 1st that we have it (the pick conveys to 2nds) and if we are trending upward then the 1st won't be as valuable anyway.

People see "OKC has our 1st" and freak out because they don't read the fine print. And in this case the fine print really matters.

And they got Stewart for it so it's not like it was given away.

bstein14 wrote:As far as the first round pick, its still a first round pick we're missing eventually.
2023 Top 18 protected (Not likely unless we finish 6th or better in the East next season) Cade's 2nd season
2024 Top 18 protected (If things go well for us, we give the pick to OKC this year) Cade's 3rd season
2025 Top 13 protected (It would almost certainly go to OKC here if it hasn't yet by this time.) Cade's 4th season

As far as the 2nd round picks, being a bad team like we are they certainly have value. SA was able to trade our first rounder (Pick #31 or #32 most likely at the time of the trade) to Toronto for a bench vet to get Toronto's first round pick this season. So a bench vet and pick #32 moved San Antonio into the a draft area likely just outside the lottery in the 15/16/17 pick range.

Sure, you can occasionally get some value out of a high 2nd but it's rare, kind of like lower round picks in other sports. Not enough to have a noticeable effect on building a Championship roster.

As far as the 1st is concerned, by the time it goes to OKC the Pistons will be contenders so will it really matter that much?
Would you rather have Stewart or a pick deep in the future in the teens?

Short memory, this franchise was in a bad situation when Weaver took over, we didn't know BG was going to be totally worthless either at that point, Pistons were capped out, BG was done for, only asset Weaver had was Kennard who was due a contract. I still think we need to wait on his strategy, this will be the first year he has cap to absorb "assets", he also could move JG to acquire assets, or he can just keep proceeding like he is, adding another high-end asset in the upcoming draft.

The biggest difference between us and those rebuilding teams is that we already landed the impact player those guys are hoping to get with future draft picks.

I see things different. I think Weaver did a lot of bad things, including trade our 1st away + raw cap space + wood for Stewart, but Stewart will be a good bench player.

He also traded a 2nd for Diallo, and despite of a few terrible and unnaceptable attitudes, Diallo will be a good bench player.

He also traded 2 2nds for Bagley, it's still too early, but I could see him being a valuable bench player.

He spent more future assets than I am comfortable with, but the 2nd unit is right there. Add 1 or 2 vets (CoJo for example) and that's an above average 2nd unit.

As for the starters, we have the foundation, again, he paid way more than he should to get the #19 pick in 2020, but he picked the right guy. Bey is a starter and his fit is incredible with Grant. Grant's main flaw is his lack of rebounding, and Bey has been a monster there. Bey's main flaw is his defense, and Grant is well above average there.

Grant was another good thing Weaver did. He acquired him with cap space, and he is an above average starter, that would fit well in any team in the league, and shocking, he is a good fit in our team.

Then he had some luck. He got the #1 pick, and despite of blowing his first lotto pick, he pick the right guy this time, he drafted Cade, who will be our franchise player and will likely be a star.

Cade/Bey/Grant is an interesting core. We need to fill the holes, and despite of not having future assets, Weaver have more than enough tools to fill those 2 holes. We are tanking, we will have an early lottery pick, and hopefully he will draft the correct guy again, and he will develop into an above average starter.

We could have somewhere around 26 million in cap space next season, hopefully he will spend it wisely, and will acquire another above average starter, and our rebuild will be done. Internal growth and those additions should be enough to get us ahead of any of those teams that have future assets.

Do I trust Weaver will hit both guys we need? No, he has done a lot of dumb stuff, but he have enough tools to complete his job and get an extension and make us enjoy watching a competitive team again.

So while I dislike the way he did it, and have criticized him a lot here, I do think the end result could be good, and faster than I expected. So yeah, I am defending Weaver here. He already spent resources to acquire players he liked and were available, while other teams are still not doing that. IMO we are ahead of those teams in our rebuilding, and we will complete it before them.

1st round picks from other team’s aren’t all that valuable unless they are high picks…

Billl wrote:The biggest difference between us and those rebuilding teams is that we already landed the impact player those guys are hoping to get with future draft picks.

OKC has SGA and Giddey who are both excellent players, plus guys like Dort, Bazley, Roby, Mann.

Is Cade/Bey really better than SGA/Giddey?

Then the 10+ 1st round picks.

I imagine OKC goes all in this off-season and lands a top guy in a trade, plus a top 5 pick, plus get some more talent in this draft.

I also like the Magic especially if Fultz makes a recovery. They have him under contract.

Fultz, Wagner, Wagner, Suggs, Cole Anthony, Isaac is injured but he will return next year, plus they could get Chet, Jabari, etc just like the Pistons.

bkseven wrote:1st round picks from other team’s aren’t all that valuable unless they are high picks…

So many talented players were picks in the teens in the draft. Is 17 a high pick?